Player Movement Thread (Was Free Agency Thread)

[TheGuiltyParty]

Dear god people Iguodala is NOT willie green, he's not fungible, he's not easily replaced, he's a key high level piece of a team that wants to win a title...if you let him walk and sign an inferior person than that 'full step' you took forward by signing  brand not has a pretty substantiali partial step backwards...

Here's what I think hurts Iguodala's value with some fans (myself included) and it's something Iguodala can't control.

1) The emergence of Thaddeus Young. He does a lot of what Iguodala does and most of us believe he'll go on to have a better career than Iguodala. If Young isn't on this roster, we sign Iguodala at whatever cost and try to get a SG some other way.

2) The lack of consistent perimeter shooting from Miller, Iguodala, or Young. If we had a solid outside (16 feet and further) shooter at the point or at the 3, than I think we would love Iguodala. Put Kirk Hinrich on this roster in place of Miller and suddenly I don't care if Iguodala can make a 17 foot shot with his feet set or not and instead I'm talking up all of the great things he does on the floor.

But again... I'm not about to greatly overpay him even though I really like him.

[jemagee]

1.The 'emergence' of Thaddeus young has been for one half season, I'm hopeful it continues as well, but there's no guarantee, and he doesn't play the same position as Andre Iguodala, and his long term development is not guaranteed.

as for two - THEN GET RID OF ANDRE MILLER for christs sake, he's older, and as far as i'm concerned easier to replace than an andre iguodala who can do so many things well (but since he only scores 18 ppg it doesn't matter?)

But again... I'm not about to greatly overpay him even though I really like him.

My problem is with what you define as 'overpaid'...i think you're way off base in valuation of iguodala compared to what other similar players are priced at.

Ducky...i only want the sixers to trade for ron artest if he agrees to intensivie counselling and medication if required

[TheGuiltyParty]

Lamar Odom ain't a #2, he's a #3, he's a sickly valuable #3 and I think Andre Iguodala is better than Lamar Odom.

Lamar Odom is playing on a 6 year 71.7 million dollar deal.

Lamar Odom is so badly overpaid that there is serious talk of the Lakers having to take back Kenny Thomas and that hideous contract in a trade for Insane Artest.  The worst part is that Odom is an expiring contract and Kenny Thomas has 2 years left at almost $16MIL. That's a great example of what I am talking about. By overpaying Iguodala so badly, you find yourself having to take back bad contracts in order to try and improve your team. We did this. We did this for 6 years! I just don't want to do that again and the way you avoid that is by not overpaying players by that much.

The good thing is that I've heard Ed Stefanski talk about this on DNL. He's well aware of what kills teams and so I'm confident in his decisions at this point. I could be totally wrong on this but I know that Iguodala isn't in the same category as Wade, LeBron, and Anthony and yet he would be almost getting paid as though he is. That's not good.

[Derek Bodner]

as for two - THEN GET RID OF ANDRE MILLER for christs sake, he's older, and as far as i'm concerned easier to replace than an andre iguodala who can do so many things well (but since he only scores 18 ppg it doesn't matter?)

So do you think Andre Iguodala at 5 years/70 million is overpaid?  I don't care about the "it's what the market bears" crap, I care about how it will affect the future financial ramifications and maneuverability of the team.  Having two max contracts in Brand and Iguodala for 5 years is going to handcuff this team going forward.  You have to be damned sure that Iguodala's worth it.

[jemagee]

Except that Andre Iguodala would still be under contract for three more seasons while lebron dwayne (I refuse to put carmelo in the same category, cause he's not) could conceivably leave their teams and be making TONS more (20 mil plus possibly) per year than what Iguodala would then be making.

But yeah, you're probably right, the sixers can find easily find a replacement, and if they don't somehow get one this off season, i mean willie green is definitely a starter on a championship caliber team right?

[Derek Bodner]

That is exactly what I am saying. Just because a team is willing to overpay Iguodala significantly, it doesn't mean the Sixers have to match.

Exactly.  I hate talk of market value.  Market value dictated that monstrous contract Adonal Foyle got, that doesn't mean it was a good contract.  I would be very wary of paying Iguodala max money, for how it would handcuff us in the future.

[jemagee]

as for two - THEN GET RID OF ANDRE MILLER for christs sake, he's older, and as far as i'm concerned easier to replace than an andre iguodala who can do so many things well (but since he only scores 18 ppg it doesn't matter?)

So do you think Andre Iguodala at 5 years/70 million is overpaid?  I don't care about the "it's what the market bears" crap, I care about how it will affect the future financial ramifications and maneuverability of the team.  Having two max contracts in Brand and Iguodala for 5 years is going to handcuff this team going forward.  You have to be damned sure that Iguodala's worth it.

I think he's worth it yeah...and as for handcuffing the sixers, well, the other two most 'important' pieces to worry about long term are Young and Speights, and the only thing that handcuffs the sixers would comcast worrying about the luxury tax over keeping players, and if that's gonna happen then i don't see a title coming here any time soon.

Let's say they keep Iguodala for 'just' 60 million...what do they do next season when stefanski hasn't traded andre miller cause they are 'in the mix' and he walks and there's a gaping hole at point guard with no solution...is that couple million per year saved on iguodala going to be the difference between having enough to sign a point guard and not sign a point guard.

You keep Williams, you keep speights and young if they develop cause they are restricted..you have the MLE i guess to get a point guard...if you want to win you have the ability to build a winning roster...if comcast is not going to go 'too high' because of the luxury tax than the sixers are fucked anyway...

[Derek Bodner]

I also love it how everyone who is wary of giving Iguodala a max contract is either:
1) Someone who thinks Iguodala's easily replaceable. 
or
2) Not appreciative of his skills/thinks he sucks because he's not a bigtime scorer

[jemagee]

That is exactly what I am saying. Just because a team is willing to overpay Iguodala significantly, it doesn't mean the Sixers have to match.

Exactly.  I hate talk of market value.  Market value dictated that monstrous contract Adonal Foyle got, that doesn't mean it was a good contract.  I would be very wary of paying Iguodala max money, for how it would handcuff us in the future.

70 million dollars over 5 years is max money for andre iguodala now?

cause last i checked, max deals for restricted free agents are six years aren' they?

[jemagee]

Lamar Odom is so badly overpaid that there is serious talk of the Lakers having to take back Kenny Thomas and that hideous contract in a trade for Insane Artest.

Cause artest for odom straight up works right?

[shadowTerp]

Dear god people Iguodala is NOT willie green, he's not fungible, he's not easily replaced, he's a key high level piece of a team that wants to win a title...if you let him walk and sign an inferior person than that 'full step' you took forward by signing  brand not has a pretty substantiali partial step backwards...

But yeah, ignore the first four regular seasons and the progression, focus only on the small sample size of the first playoff appearance without iverson, i think that's a stronger indicator of what andre iguodala can do and not do, not the close to 350 games he played before those playoffs

QFT.  While I don't want to pay Iggy 6/75, if that's what it takes to keep him... you have to strongly consider it.  It wouldn't be a 'bad' contract in a Kevin Kenyon Martin or Zach Randolph way (unlike what some of you are suggesting).  Our whole athletic/full-court/hard-defense was set in place by and for him.  Igoudala may not have the greatest outside shot, but he scores, rebounds, defends and passes, basically the NBA equivalent of a "5-tool" player in baseball.  How many guys are there in the league like that?  No one knows how well he will play with Brand at the 4 and he at the 2.  Don't you think we ought to find out first before we lose him for nothing?

Besides, there is the sad truth that beyond rookie contracts, most players in the NBA are about 20% overpaid.  It's the reality of restricted free agency.  I hear a bunch of candidates to replace him (Gordon, Ellis, Redd) but all of those are a significant downgrade defensively.  Not only that, but Redd is just as 'overpaid' as Iggy would be, as we'd have to overpay to get Gordon or Ellis because they are restricted.

[jemagee]

Kevin Martin has a bad contract?  FThat's the first time I can recall hearing that said.

[shadowTerp]

Kevin Martin has a bad contract?  FThat's the first time I can recall hearing that said.

Argh.  Fixed.

[jemagee]

Kevin Martin has a bad contract?  FThat's the first time I can recall hearing that said.

Argh.  Fixed.

Ok, now i get it

Just was confused...could be my david thorpe worship though as thorpe worked a lot with kevin martin

[TheGuiltyParty]

Lamar Odom is so badly overpaid that there is serious talk of the Lakers having to take back Kenny Thomas and that hideous contract in a trade for Insane Artest.

Cause artest for odom straight up works right?

Do you mean from a talent perspective or financially? Financially, the Kings have better deals (Mikki Moore's expiring) that they could substitute into the deal. I get it though... you love Iguodala and you're prepared to pay him whatever the Clippers (a quality organization that knows what they are doing) are willing to sign him to.

I unfortunately didn't sleep through the past decade and watched as my team was unable to land a quality #2 guy due to being handcuffed by bad contracts. I missed that and once Iguodala is overpaid, we'll be right back there.

Is Iguodala better than Kevin Martin? Is he better than Caron Butler? Those aren't fair names since they aren't on the market this summer but let me ask this: If Ellis gets $55MIL and Deng gets $55MIL and Iguodala gets $70MIL... is that going to seem right to you?