Author Topic: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008  (Read 5377 times)

Offline Skandery

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 04:09:50 PM »
Once again, westkoast.  100% spot on!!  I didn't even think of it and that's the best argument, yet.

You had approximately 20% of Larry Bird left in the summer of 92, pretty much after his back had entirely given out.  Magic Johnson was grossly out of shape, somewhat injured, and had just broken to the work he had contracted HIV.  Chris Mullin was injured.  John Stockton was injured.  David Robinson was in just his second year and provided nothing but defense and rebounding (same with Ewing).  Laettner was by no means more talented than either Shaq or Mourning.  Yet that was the best team ever put together in the history of basketball.  Why?  They played like a TEAM!!!! 




P.S. sorry about the continued bolding, highlighting, intalicizing, and underlining of the word team, guys.  I'm hoping Rick catches the drift.   
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Offline Reality

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 08:27:47 PM »
Agree the '92 team played like a team.
Could we add that opposing players left their USA man they were assigned to guard so that their buddies on the sidecourt with the camera could get a good shot of them and Bird or them and Magic in the photograph.

Please.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 06:08:21 PM »
Once again, westkoast.  100% spot on!!  I didn't even think of it and that's the best argument, yet.

You had approximately 20% of Larry Bird left in the summer of 92, pretty much after his back had entirely given out.  Magic Johnson was grossly out of shape, somewhat injured, and had just broken to the work he had contracted HIV.  Chris Mullin was injured.  John Stockton was injured.  David Robinson was in just his second year and provided nothing but defense and rebounding (same with Ewing).  Laettner was by no means more talented than either Shaq or Mourning.  Yet that was the best team ever put together in the history of basketball.  Why?  They played like a TEAM!!!! 

Why didn't you mention Charles Barkley and MJ, the two best players on that squad and the ones that made sure they won?

And, why are you stressing team to me, when the whole thrust of my argument is that as constructed, the USA Basketball team isn't nearly as close to being a TEAM as the BOSTON CELTICS?

It's apparent that it's YOU who doesn't get it, and pretty obnoxious that YOU THINK you do!

Bottom line, the team would be better with Pierce instead of Prince, because he is a more complete player and much more of an offensive threat, and AI would be better simply because he demands so much attention on offense, and because his speed and ball-handling skills are superior to Kidd's by far.  There is also something to be said for their growth as players, since you brought up their past character issues.  Pierce has never been happier as a ball player since being joined by Garnett and Allen.  He now realizes that to win, you do your part and trust the others to do theirs.  I'm fairly sure AI gets that as well, although the Nuggets as a team don't seem to.




P.S. sorry about the continued bolding, highlighting, intalicizing, and underlining of the word team, guys.  I'm hoping Rick catches the drift.   

Offline Skandery

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 06:38:24 PM »
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Why didn't you mention Charles Barkley and MJ, the two best players on that squad and the ones that made sure they won?

. . . because it would be like mentioning Kobe Bryant and LeBron James who would be the ones to make sure this squad wins. 

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And, why are you stressing team to me, when the whole thrust of my argument is that as constructed, the USA Basketball team isn't nearly as close to being a TEAM as the BOSTON CELTICS?

I'm stressing team to you because you want to take the two most team-oriented players on the roster (Prince and Kidd) and replace them with players that have had issues playing a team-oriented game in the past, issues playing a team-oriented game in international play, issues playing a team-oriented game in the NBA.  I mean Pierce had to be handed players on the calibre of Garnett and Allen before he gave thought to being a team player.  And Allen Iverson is such a ball-dominant, motion-stopper that Philadelphia was happy getting pennies on the dollar for him and you, YOURSELF, sung to the heavens the praises of Andre Miller because here was a Point Guard who <GULP> passed the ball!  Iverson, meanwhile, dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, and dribbled the Denver nights away as he got swept out of the playoffs faster than one could say "PASS THE BALL!!"  Oh and lets not forget the 17-21 foot perimeter jacks that were particulary righteous in killing momentum.

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Bottom line, the team would be better with Pierce instead of Prince, because he is a more complete player and much more of an offensive threat, and AI would be better simply because he demands so much attention on offense, and because his speed and ball-handling skills are superior to Kidd's by far.

No, this is what's obnoxious Rick.  You saying asinine things like AI's ball-handling skills are superior to Kidd's.  Jason Kidd, a surefire bet to be voted as a Hall of Fame point guard, doesn't have the ball-handling skills of Allen Iverson?  Why?  Because he doesn't have a the tick-like urge to dribble between his legs for no reason every 4 seconds.  You gonna tell me that Kenny Anderson was a better ball handler than John Stockton?  Rick its getting more and more apparent that your understanding of winning, team-oriented basketball, and the value to chemistry and cohesion that unselfish players bring forth to their respective roles is about as sophisticated as your ability to properly use the "quoting" functions on this board software. 

This has gone from laughable to ludicrous in short order.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 03:55:40 PM »

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And, why are you stressing team to me, when the whole thrust of my argument is that as constructed, the USA Basketball team isn't nearly as close to being a TEAM as the BOSTON CELTICS?

I'm stressing team to you because you want to take the two most team-oriented players on the roster (Prince and Kidd) and replace them with players that have had issues playing a team-oriented game in the past, issues playing a team-oriented game in international play, issues playing a team-oriented game in the NBA.  I mean Pierce had to be handed players on the calibre of Garnett and Allen before he gave thought to being a team player.  And Allen Iverson is such a ball-dominant, motion-stopper that Philadelphia was happy getting pennies on the dollar for him and you, YOURSELF, sung to the heavens the praises of Andre Miller because here was a Point Guard who <GULP> passed the ball!  Iverson, meanwhile, dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, and dribbled the Denver nights away as he got swept out of the playoffs faster than one could say "PASS THE BALL!!"  Oh and lets not forget the 17-21 foot perimeter jacks that were particulary righteous in killing momentum.

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Bottom line, the team would be better with Pierce instead of Prince, because he is a more complete player and much more of an offensive threat, and AI would be better simply because he demands so much attention on offense, and because his speed and ball-handling skills are superior to Kidd's by far.

No, this is what's obnoxious Rick.  You saying asinine things like AI's ball-handling skills are superior to Kidd's.  Jason Kidd, a surefire bet to be voted as a Hall of Fame point guard, doesn't have the ball-handling skills of Allen Iverson?  Why?  Because he doesn't have a the tick-like urge to dribble between his legs for no reason every 4 seconds.  You gonna tell me that Kenny Anderson was a better ball handler than John Stockton?  Rick its getting more and more apparent that your understanding of winning, team-oriented basketball, and the value to chemistry and cohesion that unselfish players bring forth to their respective roles is about as sophisticated as your ability to properly use the "quoting" functions on this board software. 

This has gone from laughable to ludicrous in short order.

If it's so ludicrous then why do Pierce and Iverson have better stats, which only go to prove they are better team players.  Take a look at the Point, Rebound & Assist totals and see which players are ranked higher.  You can even restrict it to this year's playoffs where Kidd led his team out of the playoffs in six games!

Making up nonsense like "the tick-like urge to dribble the ball between is legs for ..." doesn't validate your argument, it only makes it weaker.  Or putting your spin on the Nuggets playoff failure by laying the blame on AI. Kidd had a few more assists in the playoffs, but he also had a poorer assist to turnover ratio, and obviously did not score as much.  It's ridiculous for you to assert that they are somehow better team players when they don't play as well or perform as well.  Not to mention that AI is a much more popular and in demand player that fans like to see, or Pierce for that matter.

Offline Reality

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2008, 05:17:10 PM »
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not sure with Kidds injuries

What injury?  You mean the micro-fracture from like 4 years ago.  What aren't you people sure about exactly. 

I mean have I completely lost my mind or are you and Rick honestly telling me that a guy getting you ~13 points, ~ 9 assists, ~8 rebounds, and ~ 2 steals across the last 4 years is dead, finished, gone, sayonara, chop sueyed, and should be buried.  On what basis is all this coming from, because it sure isn't facts!   

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what happened with Dallas this year

They met up with a better (higher seeded) team.
Of which Chris Paul is the point guard.  JKidd of 4 years ago, or even 3 or 2 seems much better then JKidd of 2008.  He's still good, he will help the chemistry no doubt, but.....

If we go back to the op and make it:
The Roster

PG: Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd

I'm good.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 05:18:55 PM by Reality »

Offline westkoast

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2008, 05:51:55 PM »
Just because a player has better stats does not mean they are a better team player.  There is about 20 different variables that could make one player score, rebound, and even assist more then another.  On Team USA there is so much talent that bringing in a guy who has what other players already bring to the floor is not really what needs to be done.  Prince brings hustle, defense, and speed in a tall body.  No one else on this team does what Prince does on a regular basis.   MOST of the guys on this squad excel on offense.  Prince excels on defense.  Don't down play defense and then run around big upping the Celtics around here.  It makes no sense.  The reason the Celtics won and you are high on PP is because of defense!!  And before you bring up PP defense one on one...its actually the fact there was solid help defense that made people hesitate.  His one on one defense was solid but it looks a lot better when your whole team is the best defensive team in the entire league.

Stephon Marbury has some of the best career stats at his position ALL TIME.  If you don't believe me look it up.  Would anyone say he is one of the best point guards of all time? 

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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 05:35:36 PM »
Wow.

Not only do I think that Tayshaun Prince is probably the SMARTEST player in the league, the MVP of the Detroit championship in my opinion, but I'd rather have him than Pierce on *ANY* team.  And instead of trying to make room for one more guy who is going to want the last shot, I'd rather try to get rid of one more, and go with another chemistry player like Shane Battier - although, I'd prefer at a different position, since Battier is sort of a duplication of Prince.  Someone like David Lee.

There is NO WAY I would consider leaving Jason Kidd off of this team.  And while I have respect for how hard Iverson tries, I also have a bit of a question as to whether or not he will DEFER.

Taking a team of all superstars isn't the way to win at the Olympics.  Think about the players who've succeeded recently on the international stage:  Pau Gasol, Andrei Kirilenko, Manu Ginobilli.  We don't consider these guys uber-elite level NBA players - they win because of their smarts and variety of skills.  We need more of that if we're going to compete against international teams.

I agree we're a little small up front.  I'd like to add the likes of Brand or Garnett to the mix - big rebounding shot-blockers.  And I'd love one more shooter (not scorer).

The Pierce vs. Prince argument that I'd make is summed up this way:  Assume the player you take is given only 4 minutes per game.  Which player is capable of doing that without disrupting the team in the process?  That's Prince.  If you need him for 40, you can have him for 40, but if you only have 4 minutes for him, that's not a problem.  Pierce proved in 2002 he couldn't do that.  Sure - across 82 games, he can defer to Garnett some and to Allen some.  Can he do it when there are only 8 games, and he's only going to get 4 minutes per?  He sure has never looked like it in the past - and didn't look like it this season, either.

Kidd is the ultimate no-brainer.  We don't have Nash.  We don't have Stockton any more.  We need a competent, creative, pass-first guard.  The fact that we're also get a top-notch rebounder and a good defender even if he has lost a step is bonus.

Citing Kidd's struggles - if you can call them that - in Dallas is entirely wrong as an argument.  Kidd came into an existing system, more than half-way through the season, and was asked to turn Dallas - hardly the top notch team in the West - into a champion on the fly.  The only way Kidd comes out of that situation as anything less than a disappointment is if Dallas wins the whole thing.

Kidd and Prince are the two most irreplaceable players on that team as it stands - and you want to remove BOTH of them, Rick?  Come on!  If you want to sabatoge the team, at least do it with some style!  Offer us Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson!
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2008, 10:27:22 AM »
Kidd and Prince are the two most irreplaceable players on that team as it stands - and you want to remove BOTH of them, Rick?  Come on!  If you want to sabatoge the team, at least do it with some style!  Offer us Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson!

Talk about Hyperbole!  The two most irreplaceable players on the team?  These are the two players most likely to not play in a game.  Ultimate 3rd stringers on a real all-star team.

Kidd, old and slow and unable to score on his own, is a pass first point.  But compared with CP3 and Derron, he's not even in consideration, both of the others are better dribblers better assist men, and both are capable of creating (AND MAKING!) their own shot!  Iverson is more in line with the other two, but a more gifted offensive player.  The only reason to select Kidd over Iverson is size. Kidd is bigger and able to defend a bigger guard better, or at least was, he's too slow to guard anyone anymore, and Iverson's ability to steal the ball makes him a better selection.

Prince is a legitimate defender, but he's not the kind of player who can be your go-to guy.  He cannot carry a team on offense as well, so in comparison with Pierce there is none.  Pierce can be the go-to player on your team, and be relied upon to shut down your best scorer as well. To talk about Pierce and say he doesn't have chemistry with his teamates is absurd.  You won't be able to get Ray Allen or KG to say anything bad about Pierce!  Besides Prince is ugly, about as ugly a player as there ever was, excepting Gheorghe Murisan!  In addition since Pierce won the NBA Championship this season, and there are no Celtics on the Olympic team, his being there is better for the Olympic Fans.

A team of all-stars is precisely the way to win, or did you forget the dream team?  All stars do everything well, defend, block-out, rebound, pass and score.  You don't need a role player to play power forward when you're loaded. It puts enormous pressure on the other team, when they have to defend everyone on the floor.  The last thing you want is to give an opposing team's defender a break, by allowing them to guard Kidd, who you want to shoot because he can't make one, or Prince who can only score sporadically.

The Olympics is supposed to be a celebration of the best of the best.  Not assembling a team of also-rans who haven't won anything in years, and who no one outside of their team's cities is pining to see them.

Offline westkoast

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »
Rick I know your response was to Joe and I don't really have time at this moment to address everything you are saying but...

What does it matter if Jason Kidd can create his own shot?  And why do you say 'pass first' point guard as if that's a knock?  Who cares if Jason Kidd can't create his own shot when you have Lebron James and Kobe Bryant on the team?  Even if Jason Kidd could create his own shot as well as Allen Iverson I still rather have Lebron or Kobe be the ones creating shots in an isolation play.    As far as pass first...that's exactly what they need!  He needs to pass first because again you have Kobe, Lebron, Michael Redd, Mike Miller, Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, etc etc etc.  I'd be super excited to see Jason Kidd get 15 assists and take 2 shots when the final horn sounds.  To me that sounds like a box score entry to a game that had a W next to it.

An ALL STAR TEAM doesn't automatically make USA a gold medal holder.  The level of talent overseas has improved exponentially since the 90s as the game has got more and more popular.  Take into account these national teams play together a lot more then our guys do and you can see why it's more TEAM then ALL STAR if you want to be #1.

As awesome as our 92 Dream Team was the level of talent overseas has grown a lot more since.  I might as go as far to say that even that squad wouldn't do as well as they did the first time around if all things were the same except the talent of the other teams overseas.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 01:56:25 PM by westkoast »
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2008, 09:28:56 AM »
Rick I know your response was to Joe and I don't really have time at this moment to address everything you are saying but...

What does it matter if Jason Kidd can create his own shot?  And why do you say 'pass first' point guard as if that's a knock?  Who cares if Jason Kidd can't create his own shot when you have Lebron James and Kobe Bryant on the team?  Even if Jason Kidd could create his own shot as well as Allen Iverson I still rather have Lebron or Kobe be the ones creating shots in an isolation play.    As far as pass first...that's exactly what they need!  He needs to pass first because again you have Kobe, Lebron, Michael Redd, Mike Miller, Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, etc etc etc.  I'd be super excited to see Jason Kidd get 15 assists and take 2 shots when the final horn sounds.  To me that sounds like a box score entry to a game that had a W next to it.

An ALL STAR TEAM doesn't automatically make USA a gold medal holder.  The level of talent overseas has improved exponentially since the 90s as the game has got more and more popular.  Take into account these national teams play together a lot more then our guys do and you can see why it's more TEAM then ALL STAR if you want to be #1.

As awesome as our 92 Dream Team was the level of talent overseas has grown a lot more since.  I might as go as far to say that even that squad wouldn't do as well as they did the first time around if all things were the same except the talent of the other teams overseas.

Thanks for some legit questions re my response to Joe.

First off, the reason I'd prefer an Iverson to a Kidd for the final guard spot- at this point I'd rather have CP3 or Derron starting, is because of flexibility.  Even with a Kobe and LeBron on the floor, actually ESPECIALLY when you have those two on the floor, putting the ball in Iverson's hands makes it impossible to defend all the possibilities.  He can break down his man and drive, he can pull up for a shot.  He can distract the defenders so much, they won't be able to keep track of Kobe slipping behind the defense for a lob. The only concern about AI is his hot-dogging it, but with so much talent on the team that could never be justified.  It isn't a knock to be a pass-first point, but it is a liability if you don't have the quicks to get to the rack.  That's what breaks down a defense and gives a coach nightmares.

It's true that the rest of the world has caught up, and that many of them play more of a team game.  But recognize that the most challenging teams are in the same boat, because their players are in the NBA as well!  There really isn't enough time for these teams to gell between the end of the playoffs and the start of the Olympics, and not enough talent to play against either!  The edge that the US has, is that it has a greater number of super-talented players, better athletes than their foreign counterparts.

No, no-one is going to genuflect to these guys the way they did to Barkley and Jordan.  The world has grown up a lot when it comes to basketball.  But no other team has players like Kobe or LeBron, and neither do they have players as quick or able to break down a defense, like CP3 and Derron.  To me it makes sense to maximize whatever edge we have, which means fielding a loaded team, and expecting our players to out-work and out-hustle the other teams. 

Even a team without set plays can score a lot with a free-lancing group. You really can't keep Kobe or LeBron away from the basket with one guy.  If a foreign team is lucky, they have one defender that can contain one of them. If both of them are on the floor at the same time that leaves one or two defenders against our 3 other NBA players.  Basketball is a simple game, the give and go, the pick and roll, the backdoor cut, or the Princeton offense. A lightening quick point puts that altogether. 

I can't say that Prince or Kidd wouldn't be able to contribute, because they certainly can.  But Pierce and Iverson are more accomplished offensive players, which gives us additional opportunities to score on a possession, because they are significant offensive threats in their own right, and accomplished defensive players as well. Since team defense will be somewhat lacking given the limited time they have to work together, individual defense is critical.  Ball-hawking pressuring defenders and physical inside players are what is needed. Again I'd rather have AI and Pierce in that situation. 

If we have any trouble at all in the Olympics, it will be with teams that match up well with our front line- because no one is matching up at the other spots!  China should put on a good show with Yao and Wang Zhi-Zhi, and Jianlin.  Who better to get them into foul trouble than a little guard driving the lane.  The Olympic refs do not like to give the US any breaks, but when a little guy goes hard to the floor, they have to call a foul.  Kidd and Prince are less likely to get those foul shots than AI who is a master at drawing contact, and Pierce who is one of the NBA free-throw leaders.



Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 10:28:07 AM »
AI may be a master of contact, but he's a player who RELIES on getting that call when contact is made.

Consider the player who had the WORST time with the officials at last Olympics:  TIM DUNCAN.  Mr. Fundamental turned into Mr. I-can't-buy-a-call.  Our bigs have to be able to go THROUGH players if we're just going to feed them and let them work.  We need players who go into motion - much like Krstic did for his team a few years ago.  We need cutting Ginobilis instead of isolation players like Kobe, LeBron, and Carmelo - or Pierce.

We CANNOT rely on getting other players in foul trouble.  We cannot rely on the officials.  We've got to get our players such great shots that they CANNOT miss them.  And to do that, you need ball-movement - not a little guard running into the trees in hopes that an official will bail them out.  Kidd - not Iverson - is the answer to ball-movement.  Prince - not Pierce - is the answer to ball-movement.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have an isolation player.  Clearly, having a couple would be a benefit.  But we can't win with just isolation players.

The trick to assembling a great basketball team is being able to play top level basketball in the style that the opponent cannot defend.  If you're playing a team that cannot defend the fast-break, then you want to assemble a team which has an excellent fast-break.  If you're playing against a team that cannot defend a precision half-court offense, then you want a team that has an excellent half-court offense.  With the players we have available, we should have no trouble assembling a team that can beat you in the way which you are most vulnerable - which is what the '92 team did.  Can't defend the outside shot?  We've got Mullin, Bird, Drexler, Jordan and Stockton.  Vulnerable to rebounders?  We've got Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, and Bird.  Vulnerable to motion?  Stockton, Johnson, Pippen, and Bird.  Vunerable to post scoring?  Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Robinson.  Vulnerable to the fast break?  Pippen, Jordan, Magic, and Robinson.  Vulnerable to isolation?  Jordan, Johnson, and Bird.  Vulnerable to a press?  Stockton, Drexler, Jordan, and Pippen.  Vulnerable to shot-blockers?  Robinson and Ewing.  Vulnerable to a physical game?  Barkley and Malone.  Vulnerable to position defense?  Pippen, Ewing, Jordan, and Drexler.  Vulnerable to athleticism?  Jordan, Drexler, and Pippen.

It's easy to make a case to leave off Magic Johnson in favor of Isiah Thomas, or to replace a Chris Mullin with a Dominique Wilkins.  It also leaves us too much of one thing and not enough of another.

We've recently been trying to assemble teams that are so great at one and only one area that they can dominate the game in that area.  And that's fine - as long as you're not playing against a team which is made to defeat a team that specializes in beating that area.  We take great athletes, and are surprised when our athleticism is neutralized by zones, and our "good enough" outside shooters AREN'T good enough.  We've tried to get smarter, but it's still the usual suspects:  Bryant, Wade, Carmelo, LeBron.  Why not a Rip Hamilton or Ray Allen (if he'd have played) instead of Wade?  "We've got Michael Redd;  Redd is enough."  Really?  Everyone said Hersey Hawkins was enough in 1988 - before he went down with an injury;  we remember how that ended, don't we - Sabonis dominating our bigs and Kourtainitis dropping in bomb after bomb and us not being able to hit anything from outside to give Manning (who had an exceptionally poor showing) and Robinson room to work.

Let's face it;  our Olympic team is there to sell jerseys and shoes.  We've turned into such marketing whores we should have just put Peyton Manning and Terry Bradshaw on the team.






Joe

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2008, 10:40:22 AM »
Terry Bradshaw?

Offline Skandery

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2008, 11:24:20 AM »
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Terry Bradshaw?

jemagee, he's a self-promoting marketing whore.




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Let's face it;  our Olympic team is there to sell jerseys and shoes.

Which really is all fans like Rick really want.  I mean the cornerstones of the guys arguments have been:  "Tayshaun Prince is ugly" and "fans pine for flashy scorers, NOT team-oriented role players".

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Ball-hawking pressuring defenders and physical inside players are what is needed. Again I'd rather have AI and Pierce in that situation. 


The hypocrisy never stops.  Ball-hawking pressure defender, you want Pierce instead of Prince!!???  Iverson instead of Kidd!!!????  Iverson, who would rather COMPLETELY leave his man unguarded to gamble in the passing lanes (inflating those steals statistics).

 
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Even with a Kobe and LeBron on the floor, actually ESPECIALLY when you have those two on the floor, putting the ball in Iverson's hands makes it impossible to defend all the possibilities.

Rick you are just regurgitating what people said when 28 point per game Iverson joined 30 point per game Carmello on the same Denver team.  The 1st and 3rd Top NBA scorers everyone gushed, You just CAN'T defend all the possibilities!!!  Guess what, top level teams have had no trouble defending and completely dismantling Denver in embarassing fashion.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2008, 12:30:07 PM »
Joe....Since when are Ray allen and Rip Hamilton smarter basketball players then Lebron or Kobe?!?!

Rip is a smart basketball player.  I base that on his reads and decisions on the court.  Things that I feel Kobe and Lebron do much better then he does.  I also believe a few Piston coaches have felt the same way as Chauncey Billups is the floor leader for the Pistons and has been for quite a few years.   

What makes you think he is smarter then Lebron or Kobe? Not being sarcastic or anything, I do want to know what you think makes one player smarter then another.
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