All defensive teams named

[Lurker]

The league released the all-defensive teams today.  No real surprises although IMo Bell's defense has slipped but I am not sure who I would have named in his place.  Billups was next in points and actually had 1 more first team vote than Bell.

Attached are the results for the 2007-08 NBA All-Defensive Teams:

2007-08 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM Position Player, Team 1st  2nd Points
Forward Kevin Garnett, Boston 24 4 52
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 24 4 52
Center Marcus Camby, Denver 14 9 37
Guard/Forward Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 13 10 36
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio 12 9 33


2007-08 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM Position Player, Team 1st  2nd Points
Forward Shane Battier, Houston 9 11 29
Guard Chris Paul, New Orleans 10 6 26
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando 8 9 25
Forward Tayshaun Prince, Detroit 3 14 20
Guard Raja Bell, Phoenix 4 10 18

[westkoast]

Raja Bell's defense has been overrated for the past two years.  He did not deserve to be on the 2nd team.  Kobe, for the first time in the last few years, actually earned his spot 

[Derek Bodner]

The continual overrating of Marcus Camby amazes me. 

If I named the following players:
The man player A's defending averages 19.3 points per 48 minutes, with an efficiency of 52.5% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8.

the man player B's defending averages 14.4 points per 48 minutes, witha n efficiency of 49.6% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8

Which one's Marcus Camby, and which one's Rasho Nesterovic?

Oh!  But Marcus Camby's a rebounder!

The Nuggets still don't collect 50% of available rebounds.  When he's on the court, they get 27.6% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.  The opponent gets 30% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.

It would be nice if the people who voted on these stats actually watched the games.  When you get past Camby's gaudy stats (13.1 rpg, 3.6 bpg, 1.1 spg), and look at how his play actually reflects on the court (both on the man he's guarding, and how the Nuggets do while he's on the court), he's not an exceptional defender.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have value (primarily in igniting the fast break), but his actual defensive prowess is so vastly overstated it's ridiculous.

[westkoast]

The continual overrating of Marcus Camby amazes me. 

Really they should have moved Duncan to the center spot and gave Shane Battier that forward spot on the first team.  He played excellent defense this year.

[Lurker]

It would be nice if the people who voted on these stats actually watched the games.  When you get past Camby's gaudy stats (13.1 rpg, 3.6 bpg, 1.1 spg), and look at how his play actually reflects on the court (both on the man he's guarding, and how the Nuggets do while he's on the court), he's not an exceptional defender.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have value (primarily in igniting the fast break), but his actual defensive prowess is so vastly overstated it's ridiculous.

from the article on nba.com

The voting panel consisted of the NBA?s 30 head coaches, who were asked to select NBA All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. Coaches were not permitted to vote for players from their own team. Two points were awarded for a First Team vote and one point was awarded for a Second Team vote.

[ziggy]

The continual overrating of Marcus Camby amazes me. 

If I named the following players:
The man player A's defending averages 19.3 points per 48 minutes, with an efficiency of 52.5% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8.

the man player B's defending averages 14.4 points per 48 minutes, witha n efficiency of 49.6% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8

Which one's Marcus Camby, and which one's Rasho Nesterovic?

Oh!  But Marcus Camby's a rebounder!

The Nuggets still don't collect 50% of available rebounds.  When he's on the court, they get 27.6% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.  The opponent gets 30% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.

It would be nice if the people who voted on these stats actually watched the games.  When you get past Camby's gaudy stats (13.1 rpg, 3.6 bpg, 1.1 spg), and look at how his play actually reflects on the court (both on the man he's guarding, and how the Nuggets do while he's on the court), he's not an exceptional defender.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have value (primarily in igniting the fast break), but his actual defensive prowess is so vastly overstated it's ridiculous.

Just out of curiosity Derek, how would you have voted?

[Derek Bodner]

It would be nice if the people who voted on these stats actually watched the games.  When you get past Camby's gaudy stats (13.1 rpg, 3.6 bpg, 1.1 spg), and look at how his play actually reflects on the court (both on the man he's guarding, and how the Nuggets do while he's on the court), he's not an exceptional defender.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have value (primarily in igniting the fast break), but his actual defensive prowess is so vastly overstated it's ridiculous.

from the article on nba.com

The voting panel consisted of the NBA?s 30 head coaches, who were asked to select NBA All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. Coaches were not permitted to vote for players from their own team. Two points were awarded for a First Team vote and one point was awarded for a Second Team vote.

Then maybe that's why there are so many incompetently run teams

[Derek Bodner]

The continual overrating of Marcus Camby amazes me. 

If I named the following players:
The man player A's defending averages 19.3 points per 48 minutes, with an efficiency of 52.5% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8.

the man player B's defending averages 14.4 points per 48 minutes, witha n efficiency of 49.6% eFG%, and has a PER of 13.8

Which one's Marcus Camby, and which one's Rasho Nesterovic?

Oh!  But Marcus Camby's a rebounder!

The Nuggets still don't collect 50% of available rebounds.  When he's on the court, they get 27.6% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.  The opponent gets 30% of their offensive rebounding opportunities.

It would be nice if the people who voted on these stats actually watched the games.  When you get past Camby's gaudy stats (13.1 rpg, 3.6 bpg, 1.1 spg), and look at how his play actually reflects on the court (both on the man he's guarding, and how the Nuggets do while he's on the court), he's not an exceptional defender.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have value (primarily in igniting the fast break), but his actual defensive prowess is so vastly overstated it's ridiculous.

Just out of curiosity Derek, how would you have voted?

Are we going top 5 defenders, 2 guards-2 forwards-1 center, or top 5 positions?

My top 5 probably would have been Bowen, Kobe, Prince, KG, TD if just going by g-g-f-f-c.

I probably would have had Rasheed Wallace in there over Camby.  Had Bynum played more games, I thought he was a better defensive player than camby.  I think Dwight's slightly overrated as a defender as well, although I think he's made great strides this year.  I just think Camby's defensive impact is vastly, vastly overrated.

I wouldn't have voted chris paul in there either.   In fact, I think that's a huge glaring mistake as well.  All-NBA team?  Yup.  MVP ballot?  Yup.  Not all-defensive team.  Devin Harris had a much better defensive season (particularly when he moved over to NJ and ran at PG full time)

The all-defensive team is weird.  It's half filled with specialists (Bell, Bowen, etc).  The rest are filled with superstars or people with reputations.

[Randy]

This list is nuts -- how does Bowen get listed as a guard?  I'm not aware that he played that position once this year?  Personally, I think Battier could have been defender of the year -- he has had a FANTASTIC year for Houston and deserves props.  I think Garnett was deserving but Battier was second on my list.  I'm not trying to make light of Bowen as a defender, I just think Battier was better.  I don't understand Chris Paul being on this list at all -- there are many other guards who would be a better choice than Paul.  I don't think that Bell had a great year either as a defender -- he got on this list for what he has done in the past.  I wouldn't have put Howard on this list either -- I think that Howard is a great help defender -- I don't think he is all that great as a post-up defender.  I can live with Camby and the rest definately belong on the list.

[Lurker]

This list is nuts -- how does Bowen get listed as a guard?  I'm not aware that he played that position once this year? 

What position do these people play?

Kobe
Allen
T-Mac
Nash
Iverson
Wade

Just off the top of my head I listed 20 games (1/4 of the season) that Bowen defended guards.

[Randy]

This list is nuts -- how does Bowen get listed as a guard?  I'm not aware that he played that position once this year? 

What position do these people play?

Kobe
Allen
T-Mac
Nash
Iverson
Wade

Just off the top of my head I listed 20 games (1/4 of the season) that Bowen defended guards.

So eligibility is now based on what positions you guard rather than what position you play on the court?  Kobe has guarded PG's and SF's -- I've seen Bowen guard some PG's too -- should we give him PG eligibility too?  How about Kenyon Martin -- he guarded Kobe in the Denver game -- how come he doesn't get SG status? 

I thought it was based on what position you actually played -- not who you guarded.  I'm sure there are a lot of fantasy owners who would LOVE to have their big men guard a tiny guy for a night so they could get eligibility for them at other positions.

In the past, people have lost eligibility when they don't play any games at that position.  Has Bowen ever played a game as a shooting guard this year?

[Lurker]

This list is nuts -- how does Bowen get listed as a guard?  I'm not aware that he played that position once this year? 

What position do these people play?

Kobe
Allen
T-Mac
Nash
Iverson
Wade

Just off the top of my head I listed 20 games (1/4 of the season) that Bowen defended guards.

So eligibility is now based on what positions you guard rather than what position you play on the court?  Kobe has guarded PG's and SF's -- I've seen Bowen guard some PG's too -- should we give him PG eligibility too?  How about Kenyon Martin -- he guarded Kobe in the Denver game -- how come he doesn't get SG status? 

I thought it was based on what position you actually played -- not who you guarded.  I'm sure there are a lot of fantasy owners who would LOVE to have their big men guard a tiny guy for a night so they could get eligibility for them at other positions.

In the past, people have lost eligibility when they don't play any games at that position.  Has Bowen ever played a game as a shooting guard this year?

And you want to replace Bowen on the team with Battier?  What position does Battier play?  So all your arguments against Bowen would also apply to Battier?  Kobe guards Bowen and Battier so how did he make it as a guard; shouldn't he be a small forward?

Talk yourself in circles but coaches voted for the players they thought fulfilled the roles.  Bowen defends as many guards as SFs.  So does Battier.  Give your Spurs-hate a rest for awhile.

[Randy]

Actually, I was just considering the SF position (although I know they aren't selected as such).  You always take things sooo personally anytime your Spurs are involved (like ignoring posts that talk basketball and instead go right to posts that talk smack and then cry about people posting smack).  Unfortunately, I wouldn't put Bowen or Battier on that list because they are already filled with two PF's (KG and TD). 

PG - Delonte West
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Battier
PF - Kevin Garnett
C  - Camby (I think Howard is about as good -- if Bynum would have been healthy all year, I would put him here -- the center position is weak in the NBA today)

There, does that make you happy? 

[Lurker]

Actually, I was just considering the SF position (although I know they aren't selected as such).  You always take things sooo personally anytime your Spurs are involved (like ignoring posts that talk basketball and instead go right to posts that talk smack and then cry about people posting smack).  Unfortunately, I wouldn't put Bowen or Battier on that list because they are already filled with two PF's (KG and TD). 

PG - Delonte West
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Battier
PF - Kevin Garnett
C  - Camby (I think Howard is about as good -- if Bynum would have been healthy all year, I would put him here -- the center position is weak in the NBA today)

There, does that make you happy? 

Delonte West?  You have got to be kidding me?

[Randy]

Actually, I think we have some of the worst defensive PG's in the league currently -- who are you going to choose?  Billups?  Paul?  Parker?  Nash? 

I like Duhon and Hinrich but I've only seen Chicago play once this year and they both looked bad.  I have seen West play a couple of times and he has looked far better than most.  I actually would have chosen Fisher but I didn't want to cause you an aneurism -- you may be a Spurs fan but I don't want to be responsible for your death.