Author Topic: OT: Texas and the FLDS  (Read 3032 times)

Offline Ted

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OT: Texas and the FLDS
« on: April 28, 2008, 05:53:13 PM »
Okay, part of me really hoped this subject would not come up on this board. But the other part of me wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on a very messed up situation. I fully expect (and accept) that this will spawn a million jokes at my expense, but I'll take it, because this is such an interesting situation, and I can't believe no one's even made a tongue-in-cheek mention of it.

So . . . now that it's out there. What do you all think? I'll chime in later tonight. I don't have time right now because I'm taking my only wife to a concert.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 05:55:08 PM by Ted »
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Offline msc

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 06:25:06 PM »
Not much to say about it other than it's sad and disgusting. 

I feel horrible for these young women because even if they are somehow able to break free from the cult (let's call a spade a spade), they've been brainwashed since birth and are completely unequipped to survive in the real world. 

These fundamentalist wack-jobs give normal Mormon's a bad name.  Just like every fundamentalist for every other religion.  I'd be interested to get your perspective on the subject, Ted, as I'm sure you encounter it frequently. 

Under the Banner of Heaven by John Krakauer is a fascinating book for those interested in the world of Mormon fundamentalism.   


Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 06:56:28 PM »
Okay, part of me really hoped this subject would not come up on this board. But the other part of me wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on a very messed up situation. I fully expect (and accept) that this will spawn a million jokes at my expense, but I'll take it, because this is such an interesting situation, and I can't believe no one's even made a tongue-in-cheek mention of it.

So . . . now that it's out there. What do you all think? I'll chime in later tonight. I don't have time right now because I'm taking my only wife to a concert.

Ted,

If, IF, I EVER finish reading the thousands of articles about abuses commited by the Catholic against young boys, and the cover ups, I will try and read up on the situation in Texass.  THEN, at that point I might comment.

I don't know if you heard the comments made by Bill Maur (sic?), but he is dead on the money.  The only mistake the group in Texass made was to abuse ONLY a few hundred kids.  In THIS country, when you only abuse a few hundred you get labled a "cult" BUT when abuse children in the thousands to millions, you are labeled "Catholic" and are given great tax breaks.
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Offline Randy

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 09:26:47 PM »
WOW, ever wonder why priests were just shuffled around instead of canned?  It's because it goes way deeper than what we have heard -- these priests were abused somewhere down the road and it goes far deeper than the Catholic Church would like to admit.  It's a real shame and it's deplorable -- IMO, the people who knew about it should be as cupable as the priests who did it.  But the Catholic Church has been able to throw enough money at it to make it go away -- also a tremendous crime to the victims.

Ted, there are always extremists who buy into some facets of the religion but seem to miss what it's really all about.  I don't believe you would support such actions no matter how much we kid you on this board.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 10:09:35 PM »
I can't stand Maur, he's a roach.  Always talking like he knows better and can't shite done.  IMO, he useless.

As for what is happening, it is incredibly sad.  I found myself watching Nancy Grace, and I can't stand watching Nancy Grace either, but they were showing footage of the women talking about how the husbands were th best men in the whole world and life there is like heaven on earth and how CPS lied to them about them seeing the kids again, but when asked if they allowed under aged children to be impregnated the women stiffened up and said that the reporters were diverting because they (the 'wives') WERE talking about the children.  They refused to answer any questions on whether "heavenly relations" took place or not.  I am just wondering when they will start showing these men that did this on camera.  In the mean time, I hope they can do something with all these kids and get them help in dealing with all of this.  These kids were born into this and they dont know much else.  I can't even imagine how scared the kids are right now. 

Speaking of sick freaks, any of you read about that Austrian who held his daughter captive for 24 years and had 7 children with her....THAT'S where this freaking 'religion' is heading.  sick turds....


 >:( >:( >:(
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Offline Laker Fan

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 10:17:00 PM »
cupable


Cupable Randy? Are you culpable for this abortion of spelling?

I refuse to comment on this subject Ted, my anger would overcome my good sense and I would say things I would later regret.
Dan

Offline Randy

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 11:05:06 PM »
Missing a letter in the midst of posting is worth addressing?  Much like comparing it to abortion? 

Offline Ted

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 02:57:37 AM »
Not really sure where to start. First of all, I have to acknowledge my church's past. I still struggle with the history of my own faith, and I've spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. However, I don't think this board is the place for any attempt at explanation or discussion of that subject.

But here's what I think about the FLDS situation:

1. The men are in complete control and they are evil.
When it comes to the government's role in the home, I'm usually inclined to say that whatever happens between consenting adults--whether it's two men, two women, or one man and three women--is between those consenting adults. When you talk about teenage girls being forced in to "spiritual marriages" that are really nothing more than sanctioned sexual relationships, you're looking at a whole different dynamic.

2. The women are probably abused in every possible way: mentally, spiritually, physically, sexually.

3. The children are the true victims.
It breaks my heart to think of how many little children were torn away from their mothers' arms; however messed up their mothers may be. These little ones don't understand that they're in danger or why they can't be with their mothers, and I suspect most of them are safe and well cared for. But it's such a confusing situation; even the ACLU, which is usually all over this kind of thing, is stumped.

4. The Texas CPS and prosecutors have messed up, and it's only going to get worse for them.
Why won't the girl who made the phone call that started this thing come forward? She was willing to risk the consequences of making the call--why not come forward now that she's away from any FLDS influence? Where is this poor girl? Well, it's probably because the 16-year-old Sarah was really a 31-year-old woman from Arizona with a likely well-founded grudge against this Barlow A-hole. And she is now under investigation for giving a false report to authorities. And what about the new reports that there are as many as four FLDS kids missing after the raid. They're not at the ranch. They're supposedly not in state custody. What the hell?

5. 1-4 are the problems. Here's my answer, and I know it's probably naive.
Go after the FLDS men with everything the governments of the United States, Texas, San Angelo can bring to bear. Our AG Shurtleff put the prophet away for life by making him an accomplice to rape. Start busting every single guy who's DNA is found in a child born of an underage girl. Then go after the elder of the church who performed the marriage. Go after the guys who served as witnessed to the marriage. Put every last one away. Remove these bastards and you remove the problem. All Texas has done is scare the hell out of a lot of kids. Still, you have to give Texas credit for doing something at all.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 09:20:18 AM by Ted »
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Offline westkoast

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 09:11:40 AM »
To me it is a very touchy and complicated subject.  What they are doing is wrong, as far as brainwashing these women into thinking what they are doing is okay.  It's not the multiple wives part I have a problem with.  In fact I could careless about it if all parties involved are okay with that agreement.  I have a hard enough time with one women so if a man can hold down 4, more power to him lol.  The problem I have is the manipulation of young women so some of these convicted sex offenders can engage in their creepy sexualy escapades.  This is where it becomes touchy and complicated....is the government allowed to step in and say everything they are doing is "wrong"?  Granted the sexual relationships with underage women is a nobrainer and breaking the law but as far as having them lead a specific lifestyle or to follow the rules of a religion?  Couldn't the same be said of very strict Catholic families?  Is it really the governments place to step in and tell people how they should live there lives?  To all of us it seems wacky but I am sure there are some people who are happy with their life.  Someone may say "They don' know any better" and maybe that's true.  I just don't think its the US Governments job to show them "whats better"  Kind of reminds me of when the catholic church came here and taught the savages "the right way" to live.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 09:28:28 AM »
IMO, it's pretty simple.  I'm in agreement with Ted.  DNA test the hell out of them and figure out which adults were having sex with minors.  It's that simple.  The flip side is that the US has not gone after priests so why do they go after the FLDS?  IMO having a priest molest a boy is worse, you destroy that kid pretty much. 

All around the rural world, girls are having kids as soon as they reach puberty.  15 year old girls getting married is not out of the norm in China and South America, it used to be that way in this country as well but has changed in the last century.  But since there are laws against that in this country they should be enforced. 
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 09:39:38 AM »
I don't see where this is all that complicated.

You've got child-molesting criminals.  Punish them.

You've got parents who have allowed the molesting of their children.  Take the kids away from them.

You've got kids who've been molested, with parents who've been accomplices to the molestation.  Get these kids out of there, and get them every kind of help they need.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

The fact that all of this is done under the guise of a religion is despicable.  The purpose of religion - even secularism - is to uplift the soul (even if you don't believe in one) - not to pleasure a person.  Calling this thing a religion is outrageous.  It's a heresy of ANY religion, and a violation of the laws of society, of man, of God, and of common sense.  There's no need to tread lightly.  It's a criminal enterprise.

If these kids were just sex slaves and the folks in question weren't parents, but prison keepers, this would be an open and shut case.  SO WHY ISN'T IT?  These people gave up their rights to be considered parents when they put their kids through this.  I don't care if it's because they were fearful, or brainwashed, or just too plain stupid to see through this garbage.  Regardless of which it is, they are unfit as parents.  Stop treating them as such.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 09:47:15 AM »
I don't see where this is all that complicated.

You've got child-molesting criminals.  Punish them.

Yes that is simple.

Quote
You've got parents who have allowed the molesting of their children.  Take the kids away from them.

This would be simple if they were able to tell who's children are whos.  This is part of where the complication comes in.  No one is talking and they will be conducting  DNA tests for months to sort it all out.  *IF* everyone cooperates. 

Quote
You've got kids who've been molested, with parents who've been accomplices to the molestation.  Get these kids out of there, and get them every kind of help they need.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

They don't know exactly who has been molested and who hasn't.  They don't know what children belong to what parents.  Throw in the mix that the US Government is not really suppose to tell people how to live their life but have stepped in.... Like I said it's complicated.  I am not being an apologist here but we just don't know enough information.  You can't say that all the kids were treated horrible and molested.  We don't know that.  To put the cherry on top....these children and women are going to be tossed back into society where they are going to struggle to be apart of for a million different reasons. 

Of course if you make blind assumptions that everyone was molested, all the adults okay'd it, and getting these people back into society is a cake walk  "its that simple"

Quote
The fact that all of this is done under the guise of a religion is despicable.  The purpose of religion - even secularism - is to uplift the soul (even if you don't believe in one) - not to pleasure a person.  Calling this thing a religion is outrageous.  It's a heresy of ANY religion, and a violation of the laws of society, of man, of God, and of common sense.  There's no need to tread lightly.  It's a criminal enterprise.

Funny how so many of things that are going on in the world right now that are deemed bad are under the guise of religion. 

Quote
If these kids were just sex slaves and the folks in question weren't parents, but prison keepers, this would be an open and shut case.  SO WHY ISN'T IT?  These people gave up their rights to be considered parents when they put their kids through this.  I don't care if it's because they were fearful, or brainwashed, or just too plain stupid to see through this garbage.  Regardless of which it is, they are unfit as parents.  Stop treating them as such.


Very easy statement to make when you are thinking clearly.  If you grow up in that environment and don't know any better it's not so easy to just see through the brainwashing. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 09:52:03 AM by westkoast »
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Offline Ted

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 11:28:56 AM »
Great post koast. You said everything I would have said.

Here's the thing. You can't underestimate the trauma of young children being forcibly removed from their mothers (I'm not going to pretend that these fathers are active in their children's lives). IMO it's a close second to the trauma of abuse. The power of government child protection agencies is a truly frightening thing to me as a parent. It's necessary to protect children in truly dangerous situations, but every now and again, you hear a story of an agent, or an agency run amok, and it's scary.

The fact that all of this is done under the guise of a religion is despicable.  The purpose of religion - even secularism - is to uplift the soul (even if you don't believe in one) - not to pleasure a person.  Calling this thing a religion is outrageous.  It's a heresy of ANY religion, and a violation of the laws of society, of man, of God, and of common sense.  There's no need to tread lightly.  It's a criminal enterprise.

Well said Joe. I would add only that the purpose of religion is to uplift every soul, not just a man's soul.
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Offline Ted

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2008, 05:45:29 PM »
Just read that Texas' case has completely unraveled and ALL children are being returned to their parents' custody. It's sad that the FLDS children who really need protection aren't going to get it (at least not right away) because of the state's crazy approach to the situation.

I still think you go after the men. You've got all of this DNA evidence. You can prove men have impregnated teenage girls. Nail them to the wall and remove the true cause of the problem.
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Offline Reality

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Re: OT: Texas and the FLDS
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2008, 05:49:16 PM »
The US Injustice System.  Got to love it.

I don't watch Family Guy but i was channel surfing and it showed them reading the paper.
Headlines:  "Trans fats outlawed in NYCity.  Fat Trannies okay tho."

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