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Offline WayOutWest

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Shaq as classy as ever!
« on: March 27, 2008, 12:27:21 AM »
Shaq finds his place with the Suns
By Jackie MacMullan
Globe Columnist / March 26, 2008
Shaquille O'Neal's memory is excellent.

This is bad news for the doubters and haters who declared the decision of the Phoenix Suns to send Shawn Marion packing and replace him with the 36-year-old Diesel a colossal blunder. Shaq, who will face the Celtics tonight at the Garden, can tick off the litany of reasons why the pundits declared he was certain to fail: too old, too stubborn, too injury-prone, too immobile, too big, too egotistical. The early returns were not good. His indoctrination into the Suns' free-flowing, fast-break style was underwhelming. The team struggled to score, Shaq looked uncomfortable in his role, and Phoenix simply could not stop anyone.

The coach, Mike D'Antoni, preached patience, but no one was listening. D'Antoni was drowned out by the thrashing general manager Steve Kerr and Shaq were enduring for messing up one of the elite teams in the West. "We knew it would take time," D'Antoni explained, "because we had to change the way we played. When we added Tim Thomas [in 2006], we didn't miss a beat. When the Lakers added Pau Gasol, they didn't, either. But when you take a big piece out and put a completely different big piece in, you are going to have a few frustrations. "We were actually playing well, but we were losing, and we really weren't sure why. We knew it would come. The guys never lost faith. But that doesn't mean there weren't a lot of sleepless nights." After experimenting with a few different sets, including playing Shaq at the high post, D'Antoni decided to plunk his new big man on the block and leave him there. With O'Neal comfortably settled into the low post and his teammates spreading the floor around him, Phoenix morphed into a better 3-point-shooting team, a more prolific scoring team, and a better rebounding team.

The Suns ripped off seven wins in a row before losing to Detroit in overtime Monday night, holding opponents under 42 percent shooting. As Phoenix veteran Grant Hill duly noted, scoring never has been an issue for the Suns, but stopping teams has. No longer. Think point guard Steve Nash is happy about the recent developments? During the winning streak, Nash shot 60 percent (48 for 80) from the floor, in part because nobody dares to leave the big man alone under there. So now the Suns can play two ways: their traditional up-tempo pace, or a halfcourt, pound-it-inside Eastern Conference style.

"I love playing for this coach and I love playing with these guys," said O'Neal yesterday. "We have professionals who know what to do. No one is asking me to play with Chris Quinn or Ricky Davis. I'm actually on a team again." Note the swipe at his former employers, the Miami Heat. When Pat Riley engineered the blockbuster trade that brought Shaq to South Beach, O'Neal promised to deliver a championship. He did, but the cost of sticking with an aging roster has left the franchise in a freefall ever since.

The once-blissful marriage between Shaq and Riles ended badly. As their championship core crumbled, so did their relationship. Heat officials believe Shaq quit on them and point to his chronic hip problems that prevented him from playing in Miami but have not stopped him from averaging 29.3 minutes a night with the Suns. Conversely, Shaq believes Riley quit on him and saddled him with the blame for the franchise's implosion. "I guess when you have a lot of power, you can do what you want," O'Neal said. "Me? If I ever came into that kind of power, I think I'd be willing to admit it if I messed up."

O'Neal's comments were met with silence out of Miami yesterday.

"I know what they said about me," Shaq said. "Grant [Hill] called me up and told me, 'They said you don't want to play no more.' "Ever since I was a little kid, I've been the scapegoat when things went wrong. When I was in the classroom and somebody threw something at the teacher, she'd turn around and look at me first. She'd give me that look like, 'Shaq, you're a clown, it's got to be you.' "I understand being the scapegoat comes with being the superstar. When it all goes right, you get the credit. And when it doesn't . . . I guess this is what you get. "I can accept being the scapegoat when we do things my way and they don't work out. But when you have no control how things are handled, and you are still the scapegoat, I don't go for that."

O'Neal claims he's content with his reduced role in Phoenix and promised his new teammates he didn't need "no touches, no plays, no nothing." He said a conversation with Bill Russell earlier this season convinced him he shouldn't even glance at his statistics. "He told me every big man in the history of the league saw his numbers go down toward the end of their careers," Shaq said. "I looked it up on the Internet. He was right. "This team won 50 games last year without a big man. Steve Kerr said, 'We don't need 27 [points] and 10 [rebounds] from you. We need someone to slow up Tim Duncan and put a body on Yao [Ming] and [Andrew] Bynum.' "

Shaq, who is averaging 11.9 points and 10.5 rebounds in 17 games with Phoenix, is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. His legacy is secure, but, he conceded, he's aware of the image he's developed after acrimonious departures from Orlando, Los Angeles, and now Miami. "I have not left any of the teams on good notes," O'Neal said. "We players have our own little fraternity. We talk about stuff, so I've got to figure the coaches do, too. They are probably saying I'm an [expletive]. So I came to Phoenix prepared to show them what kind of person I am."

This is the first time he's come to the Garden when the Celtics were legitimate contenders. O'Neal anointed Boston "the best team" yesterday. "I like how unselfish their top three guys are," said Shaq, "and I like that they are having a good time. They also have all these other great pieces, like James Posey.
"I'm telling you, if we don't have him in Miami, we wouldn't have done it. He's willing to take charges, to take the big shots. "I'm looking forward to [tonight]. I've never played them when they were Boston Boston. Back when they had those teams with Rick Fox and 'Nique [Dominique Wilkins], they were only Sort Of Boston. "Now it's Boston Boston."

It's too soon to say whether Shaq can make Phoenix the Suns Suns. D'Antoni firmly believes his new roster gives his team a better chance at advancing in the postseason. The big man on the block concurs. "I'm not worried about what anyone says," Shaq said. "I've already had my Wonder Years. Now maybe I can bring these fellas a little happiness, too."

Jackie MacMullan is a Globe columnist. She can be reached at macmullan@globe.com.


Riley: Shaq's comments on Heat players 'sad'
Updated: March 26, 2008, 11:54 PM EST add this RSS blog email print NEW YORK (AP) - Pat Riley can't understand why Shaquille O'Neal keeps talking about the Miami Heat.

Riley responded to O'Neal's criticisms Wednesday with some of his own, saying his former center was wrong to disparage some of his old teammates and trainers in a Boston Globe story.

"It's sad that he says those things. We shared so much here, together, for three years, good and bad, 3? years," Riley said, referring specifically to the Heat's 2006 NBA title. "I just think it's sad that he's got to do that."

Riley dealt O'Neal to Phoenix before the trade deadline, allowing the 36-year-old center the chance to compete for another title instead of sticking around Miami for a last-place finish. O'Neal made it clear how much he prefers his new teammates.

"I love playing for this coach and I love playing with these guys," O'Neal told the Globe. "We have professionals who know what to do. No one is asking me to play with Chris Quinn or Ricky Davis. I'm actually on a team again."

After Phoenix's loss to Boston, O'Neal elaborated, saying that defenses would sag off of Quinn and Davis and he wasn't able to get the ball. Of Riley's comments, O'Neal said colorfully, "I don't (care) how he interpreted it."

Reminded that reporters couldn't use the quote because of the expletive, he said, "Sure you can. You can quote me, brother. You can put an 's,' then the tic-tac-toe, the 'at' sign and then the other symbols."

O'Neal was critical about shots as in, not getting enough of them ? often during his tenure with the Heat. This year, he expressed those sentiments in the days that followed a 110-101 loss at Utah on Dec. 3 ? a game where Quinn didn't play and O'Neal and Davis were on court together for 16 minutes, 2 seconds.

He also complained about not getting enough touches two days after going 8-for-15 in a 120-99 loss against Orlando, another game where he and Quinn never were on the court at the same time. Plus, O'Neal got into an argument with Riley during an early season practice, and words got so heated that Alonzo Mourning intervened to keep the two separated.

Keep in mind, O'Neal is the one who repeatedly referred to his Miami coach as "the great Pat Riley" during his time in South Florida. But he also was clearly miffed when Riley pulled him in the first minute of a game at New Jersey earlier this season for blowing a defensive assignment.

Riley said he doesn't have "anything but good feelings for Shaq" and wasn't bothered by any criticism leveled at him. But he said O'Neal has no reason to blame anyone else in the organization for his unhappiness.

"When you're 9-40, we're all frustrated. I mean everybody's at fault, we all were. Everybody was feeling bad and nobody wants that," Riley said.

"He didn't want to be there, he didn't want to play for that kind of situation, 35 years old. He wanted to go to a contender and we sent him there. We sent him to Utopia and we're left here with the carnage and I don't know why he's not happy."

Riley also defended the work of veteran trainer Ron Culp and the team's medical staff, saying O'Neal was out of line to speak poorly of them.

"It's really a shame that he would insult those people like that because they gave him care. They cared," Riley said. "They didn't kiss his butt. They cared about him.

"He can do whatever he wants to do to me. That's OK, I don't care. But those men, they tried. ... That upsets me more than anything."
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 08:47:38 AM »
Does anyone expect anything less?  He said similar things when he bolted to LA from Orlando then from LA to Miami about players and staff.

The one thing that does irk me is the fact that even though he didn't say Wade's name, he was taking a shot at him as well.  Shaq made it sound as if there was no one helping him and he played with only losers.  Quite frankly Wade should be making comments like 'I love Marion, I am looking forward to playing with him and not having to drag him through the playoffs hopefully in route to a ring'

A huge ROFLMAO goes to blaming trainers for your lack of conditioning over the course of your career that led to problems over the past 2 seasons in Miami.  Shaq is a gigantic loser.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2008, 08:59:14 AM »
Shaq is a gigantic loser.

Yea, that's a real bummer for me, I really liked Shaq and his game.  It all started to go downhilll after their first title, by the time they won their third and then lost a shot at a fourth he had totally given up on being a professional.  Shaq only seems to be motivated by external forces, too bad cuase if he had the drive of that Quincy guy he dissed he would have gone down as the greatest center ever.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline westkoast

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2008, 09:04:42 AM »
Shaq is a gigantic loser.

Yea, that's a real bummer for me, I really liked Shaq and his game.  It all started to go downhilll after their first title, by the time they won their third and then lost a shot at a fourth he had totally given up on being a professional.  Shaq only seems to be motivated by external forces, too bad cuase if he had the drive of that Quincy guy he dissed he would have gone down as the greatest center ever.

Just for once I wish he would man up and take the blame for bigger things then just one or two games here and there.  You know like the year the Lakers got smacked up by the Spurs in the second round.  Maybe even shoulder more blame for letting Ben Wallace out play him in the post in the finals.   Or Miami having a horrible season because he decided to take it off.

Blaming the trainers is the ultimate wuss move IMO.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2008, 09:33:12 AM »
Shaq made a snide little comment about the talent that the heat surrounded him with in Miami.  He didn't need to say it, and shouldn't have. 

The Heat tool a flyer on him and put together a Championship team that everyone knew wasn't going to last. When the old pro's retired, what was left wasn't enough to even challenge, so the Heat let Shaq go so he could get another ring.

IMO, the fat man should be grateful as the Heat added to his legacy.  There's no reason to diss them, as they did right by him.  In fact, he didn't need to contrast his new relationship with the Suns to his old one with the Heat at all.  It sort of makes you wonder what motivated him to say it.

Then again Riley is one of the most thin-skined NBA personalities.  He has always used the press as a tool to get what he wants, influencing refs, criticizing other coaches and teams, ex players.  He's always talking nonsense about someone or something that's none of his business. 

What is really sad is that the Heat failed to plan and were unable to replace Walker and Payton with better players and make another run.  That wasn't Shaq's fault. If anything Wade and Shaq should have been an inducement for older pro's looking for a ring.  What did Riley do to help the Heat get those players?

To me, that's a sign of a lousy GM.  You made a trade for the best Center of his era, get one Ring with him and then let the team fall apart.  And, now he's going off on expeditions instead of working with his team.  Class is one thing that Shaq couldn't learn from Riley.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2008, 09:44:00 AM »
Rick...Shaq made the comments first then Riley replied.  Riley has not used the media to do anything in regards to Shaq.  In fact it always sounds like he is kissing his butt if you ask me.  Even after it was clear Shaq tanked the season just because he didn't feel like playing.  Only to magically have all this energy, motivation, and drive.

Second..how exactly was Riley going to replace 3 key players with Shaq's contract taking up so much of their cap space?  Who was even worth going after the following year? 

Third...the team fell apart because 1) Wade was really hurt and 2) Shaq gave up.  How is that Riley's fault? 
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 09:53:20 AM »
There are always old ball players looking for a chance to grab a ring before their playing days are over.  They have made their money and are looking for a title to put on their mantel.

It is Riley's fault for making the deals he did make, and not making the ones he didn't.  Shaq is just a child. You know that.  He gets lazy and self-indulgent when he isn't surrounded with sufficient talent.  What's the point of busting hump when your team isn't good enough to win anyway?

Riley should have been hustling from the time he got Shaq to make sure he was surrounded with enough talent to keep him engaged.   Riley failed to do that, and the circumstances were of his own making.

I agree that what Shaq said was classless.  My point is that he learned from a master in Riley.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2008, 10:00:53 AM »
Riley should have been hustling from the time he got Shaq to make sure he was surrounded with enough talent to keep him engaged.   Riley failed to do that, and the circumstances were of his own making.

That statement is so wrong I don't know where to begin.  That line of thought is what is wrong with the league today.  I guess professional pride, stardom, love of the game and making MILLIONS of dollars every year are not enough to keep Shaq "engaged".  ::)
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 10:19:24 AM »
Maybe you should think about it from the big fella's point of view.  You are paid absurd amounts of money to play a game, and as a fan you think, "damn, if I made that kind of money, I'd bust hump every waking moment."

But if you are Shaq you've been payed so much money, that it doesn't mean anything anymore.  He has more money than he can spend.  So motivation for Shaq is different.  He is in it to win, not get paid.  He likes the spotlight, wants to be regarded as the best Center of all time, and wants to he a hero.

I agree with your sentiment that he's not a pro's pro.  He is lazy, petulant, egotistical and not the sharpest tack in the box.  He doesn't take any ownership over a situation or become a partner.  He didn't go to Riley and say what do we need to do to stay on top.  He just sat there and got disgruntled when it became clear that the team wasn't going to be competitive.

But if I'm Riley, then I know all that, and I knew it when I went out and got Shaq.  I would have figured on a 3-4 year window riding Shaq to the finals, surrounded by an All-star in Wade and a never ending supply of ex all-star role players.  The blame for Miami falling apart is with Riley, not Shaq. 

And, I'll bet if you sat down with Riley he'd tell you that Shaq stabbed him in the back by making those comments. And, I'd also bet that Riley would admit that he didn't do his job well enough or Shaq would still be in Miami and winning.


Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 10:29:42 AM »
I think Shaq was just mad that Wade wanted to be in Barkley's 5 instead of his... ::)
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 10:33:20 AM »
Get me those SOCKS!

Offline Lurker

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 10:38:00 AM »
There are always old ball players looking for a chance to grab a ring before their playing days are over.  They have made their money and are looking for a title to put on their mantel.

It is Riley's fault for making the deals he did make, and not making the ones he didn't.  Shaq is just a child. You know that.  He gets lazy and self-indulgent when he isn't surrounded with sufficient talent.  What's the point of busting hump when your team isn't good enough to win anyway?

Riley should have been hustling from the time he got Shaq to make sure he was surrounded with enough talent to keep him engaged.   Riley failed to do that, and the circumstances were of his own making.


Rick...this is so typically hypocritical of you.

The Spurs have built a team around a star trio and filled in the roster with "old ball players looking for a chance to grab a ring before their playing days are over."  But that is failing...in your words...because those old players have nothing left to give.  But Shaq is justified because Riley should have followed that model?

So is it a championship model or not?
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 10:51:53 AM »
IT IS DEFINITELY a Championship model Lurker. Both the Spurs and the Heat have demonstrated it to be so, as did the Lakers teams with Shaq and Kobe.

The only problem I have with the Spurs is that they are dirty.  They are still the team to beat, although I think that they should have looked for a replacement for Finley, and looking for more older players to replace the ones that aren't cutting it anymore. 

In fact, the Spurs are the most consistent winning franchise since the Bulls.

I don't think any less of the Spurs for going about winning Championships the way they do. There is nothing noble about the way the Sixers are trying to get to that level. If they ever do, they will have a top three or four players that they will try to keep building around until the core group gets too old, just like the Spurs are doing now.

It's one thing to assemble a team that can get to a Championship once like Riley did in Miami. What Pop is doing in San Antonio is a much better job and much more difficult.

The difference in LA and Miami is that the teams had no substance before.  It was like they were assembled on the fly, here today, gone tomorrow.  In San Antonio this team was built out of a previous Championship team, a very difficult thing to do.  Boston was at the top and fell all the way to the bottom until this year. Philly is completely different team than 2001. LA is almost completely different.  San Antonio has kept a good thing going for a very long time and that deserves respect.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2008, 10:58:12 AM »
Maybe you should think about it from the big fella's point of view.  You are paid absurd amounts of money to play a game, and as a fan you think, "damn, if I made that kind of money, I'd bust hump every waking moment."

But if you are Shaq you've been payed so much money, that it doesn't mean anything anymore.  He has more money than he can spend.  So motivation for Shaq is different.  He is in it to win, not get paid.  He likes the spotlight, wants to be regarded as the best Center of all time, and wants to he a hero.

I agree with your sentiment that he's not a pro's pro.  He is lazy, petulant, egotistical and not the sharpest tack in the box.  He doesn't take any ownership over a situation or become a partner.  He didn't go to Riley and say what do we need to do to stay on top.  He just sat there and got disgruntled when it became clear that the team wasn't going to be competitive.

But if I'm Riley, then I know all that, and I knew it when I went out and got Shaq.  I would have figured on a 3-4 year window riding Shaq to the finals, surrounded by an All-star in Wade and a never ending supply of ex all-star role players.  The blame for Miami falling apart is with Riley, not Shaq. 

And, I'll bet if you sat down with Riley he'd tell you that Shaq stabbed him in the back by making those comments. And, I'd also bet that Riley would admit that he didn't do his job well enough or Shaq would still be in Miami and winning.



This cop out can be used for ANY sports player then Rick.   How come guys like Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett who have made millions as well continue to work hard year after year?  They've made just as much money as Shaq has.

And for the record...Miami never rode Shaq to the finals.  In fact he was 'sleeping' for most of the car ride.  Did you forget that he was out in the first two rounds and it took some stellar play by Wade to even get Miami back into the series against the Mavs?

And if he wanted the spotlight and to go down as the best center of all time don't you think the best (and maybe ONLY) way to go about that is to give it 110% each and every year on every team?  Not just when he feels like it?  If Bill Russell only played basketball when he felt like it he probably wouldn't be the best center of all time.  Ditto for Kareem.

Not to mention it's pretty hard to keep replacing pieces when 1) there wasn't an abundance of streaky 3 point shooters and solid PGs after the first title 2) They had little money to work with considering it was tied up in Wade, Shaq, and others.

Exactly how was the Laker team Shaq was on, built on the fly?  They had a core, they drafted, they acquired free agents, went after the right coach,etc.  Literally it took the Lakers 3 years before that championship team was built.  Then to keep it going they brought in older players like Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton to try to keep it going.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 11:01:48 AM by westkoast »
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Offline msc

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Re: Shaq as classy as ever!
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2008, 11:28:07 AM »
Third verse same as the first.  Here we go again with Shaq being Shaq.  Is there any doubt who is the biggest baby in the league?  No class, no responsibility for his actions (or lack thereof).  Poor me, I'm the scapegoat, ever since I was a little kid in school.  He clearly still believes he's that little kid in the classroom taking the blame, because he acts like a third grader.  I'm so glad Buss traded his arse!  Good luck being a role player on the Suns.  They don't have a snow balls chance of winning it all, but if they do you know it will be a big wank-fest for Shaq.  His 6 pts and 8 rebs per game was the "missing peice" in the Suns puzzle.  What a joke!

Rick, you never cease to impress me. 

Quote
Then again Riley is one of the most thin-skined NBA personalities.  He has always used the press as a tool to get what he wants, influencing refs, criticizing other coaches and teams, ex players.  He's always talking nonsense about someone or something that's none of his business
 

I somehow missed all of this negative behavior from Riley the past 23 years I've been watching him coach.