Author Topic: My grades of the trades....  (Read 19135 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2008, 10:34:29 AM »
Until then, it's all conjecture and speculation.  It's some of what I thought this board was all about!

Not really, not anymore.  This board has become pretty crappy IMO.  LOL @ what sets some people off around here.  Crapping in 90% of the threads on this board gets a "pass" but a serious discussion/debate draws flame-war-like name calling.  ???
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Offline Randy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2008, 10:50:18 AM »
Until then, it's all conjecture and speculation.  It's some of what I thought this board was all about!

Not really, not anymore.  This board has become pretty crappy IMO.  LOL @ what sets some people off around here.  Crapping in 90% of the threads on this board gets a "pass" but a serious discussion/debate draws flame-war-like name calling.  ???

Boy, you aren't kidding!  I tried to start off a thread about the Rockets and ziggy turned it into a holy war -- I really wasn't trying to flame or anything -- I think that Yao is overrated (although he is still a very good player) but most importantly, I think the Rockets would fare better with a center who doesn't clog up the lane and bring the offense to a dead halt.  I think it would be better to have a center who can move without the ball rather than having to have the ball in his hands.  I think that person would compliment the offense and TMac far better than Yao.  And by simply making that post to strive to create some dialogue turns very ugly very fast.  It's enough to make you wonder what that board has turned into. 

These days this board has very little to do with basketball discussions -- it's sad.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2008, 11:10:37 AM »
Boy, you aren't kidding!  I tried to start off a thread about the Rockets and ziggy turned it into a holy war -- I really wasn't trying to flame or anything -- I think that Yao is overrated (although he is still a very good player) but most importantly, I think the Rockets would fare better with a center who doesn't clog up the lane and bring the offense to a dead halt.  I think it would be better to have a center who can move without the ball rather than having to have the ball in his hands.  I think that person would compliment the offense and TMac far better than Yao.  And by simply making that post to strive to create some dialogue turns very ugly very fast.  It's enough to make you wonder what that board has turned into. 

These days this board has very little to do with basketball discussions -- it's sad.

I thought that was a very dumb train of thought but I don't think I got out of line.  I read what you had to say and saw how the Rockets have done since Yao went down.  IMO Yao/T-Mac is very remeniscent of Shaq/Kobe, I still don't think the Rockets will be better off without a 20/10 center.  BUT I gave it alot of thought now that I have had time to digest it all and I STILL think it's a dumb line of thought. ;) 
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline ziggy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2008, 11:38:03 AM »
Here is a little info on Gasol -- definately sounds like a worthless piece of trash who can't do anything, huh, ziggy?

Quote
February 19, 2008
The current leader in efficiency rating in the ACB League, Marc Gasol has built a pretty mistake-free style of game that helps him to emerge as a statistical standout. He?s long, very strong, nicely skilled, and very smart playing the game. A menace in the low post, he shows solid footwork, a decent jump-hook and a very nice turnaround jumper. Indeed his shooting range extends out to the three-point line, while he greatly combines his scoring power with his passing game, not really looking for definitive passes, but feeding his team?s offensive flow by distributing the ball from both the high and low post.

In spite of all that, his nice effort in the quarterfinal game wasn't enough for Akasvayu Girona to overcome an extremely solid Real Madrid team. Despite being regularly double-teamed, Gasol managed to amass 19 points, most of them coming off continuations towards the basket, and other off-ball stuff near the rim. The attention he delivered from Real Madrid defense didn't allow him to produce much in one-on-one plays in the low post, but he still connected on two thunderous one-handed dunks from there, one of them after capturing the baseline with an excellent spin move where he showed nice footspeed.

However, Gasol's great statistical production doesn't always necessarily reflect a dominating performance on the floor. Indeed, it didn't in this Copa. He wasn't really a go-to guy for Girona on the offensive end (mainly because of Real Madrid?s double-teaming defense, that's true), but especially he doesn't make a great impact on the defensive end. His limited mobility gets exploited in pick-and-roll situations that the opponents throw at him; he's not a great intimidator, he allows smaller opponents to shoot over him; and given his superb size, he's not the best rebounder around.

Still, Pau's younger brother is one of the most promising centers in Europe, and probably an underrated piece -by the American media- in the recent blockbuster trade that involved both brothers. Anyway, he doesn't seem to fit too well with the current Memphis Grizzlies game style, but he might be a nice asset to work in a trade in the near future.




Once again Randy, you make up shyte.  Please show me where I said he was a worthless piece of crap.  COME ON ASSHOLE DO IT.  You were comparing him to Pau, potentially as good, and I said poppycock.

I guess if you can't discuss -- try calling names, huh, zig? 

Quote
HE WAS A SECOND ROUND PICK FOR CHRIST SAKE.  IF HE IS SO DAMN GOOD WHY DID HE SLIP TO THE SECOND ROUND?  WHAT HAS HE DONE IN SPAIN?

Hmm, you certainly don't seem to be extolling much of any kind of real basketball talent.  I'm trying to read how you see much value in him in your statements -- it's kind of tough to come to any kind of conclusion there, zig.

I don't know why you have such a bug up your butt recently -- suddenly every post becomes a personal attack complete with name-calling.  Is that how you want to be treated on this board?  Have you watched any feed for Marc Gasol?  I looked up some games online after the Lakers drafted Gasol -- I saw a lot of potential there -- whether he lives up to it or not, is another.  Obviously, many thought that Bynum would never amount to anything -- at this point, Oden hasn't done anything in this league -- I'm not trying to say that Marc Gasol and Oden have the same potential or the same abilities -- just saying that neither have proven anything and they won't until they actually get on the court.  Until then, it's all conjecture and speculation.  It's some of what I thought this board was all about!

Come on Randy save me accusations of flame wars and how I have a bug up my butt.  It takes two to tango, and your attempts to point the fingers everywhere else is tiresome.  If you don't want flame wars look in the mirror.  How many intentional flame posts towards Reality have you made in the last 10 days?  Reality brings it on, that is his gig, and he has never claimed otherwise.  You on the other hand do.  You don't want flame wars, and yet you intentionally get into, and in fact start them.

I am all for talking basketball.  What I am not up for is you taking my statements arguing against your points, and then have you turn them again and again into something I didn't say.

Lets look at our two recent exchanges.  You make some statements about the Rockets and Yao.  I challenged your statements, and made my own comments.  We disgreed, plain and simple, no flaming, no bomb throwing.  You then proceeded to turn what I said into something other that what I did say, and I called you on it.  I then went over and over trying to paraphrase you, which you agreed to.  At that point you then say you never said that, and I had enough with the double talk.  I didn't try and turn the Rockets thread into a flame war.  It wouldn't have gotten there if you had just been honest about what I said and what you said.  If you can't see that then there is no hope.

Same thing here.  My whole point is real simple.  The Lakers took the Grizz to the cleaners, and no amount of rationalization and propaganda will change that.  MSC, Laker Dan, Way Out West, and Westkoast all recognize that, and they just sit back giggling at their good fortune.  Nothing at all wrong with that.  No need to try and convince the world that this was anything close to a smart move by the Grizz, just be happy with your good fortune.  You though feel compelled by your irrational hatred of Reality to try and convince all of us that the Grizz came out of this looking great.  I challenged your points, that is all I did, point by point.  Your response was like always, you turn my words into something I didn't say, and I had finally had enough.  I don't have a problem with you personally, and I can carry on a rational discussion with you, but if you are going to continue to make up crap about what I say, then be ready for me to respond.  If you want to take extreme positions expect people to respond.
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Offline Randy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2008, 11:38:29 AM »
Boy, you aren't kidding!  I tried to start off a thread about the Rockets and ziggy turned it into a holy war -- I really wasn't trying to flame or anything -- I think that Yao is overrated (although he is still a very good player) but most importantly, I think the Rockets would fare better with a center who doesn't clog up the lane and bring the offense to a dead halt.  I think it would be better to have a center who can move without the ball rather than having to have the ball in his hands.  I think that person would compliment the offense and TMac far better than Yao.  And by simply making that post to strive to create some dialogue turns very ugly very fast.  It's enough to make you wonder what that board has turned into. 

These days this board has very little to do with basketball discussions -- it's sad.

I thought that was a very dumb train of thought but I don't think I got out of line.  I read what you had to say and saw how the Rockets have done since Yao went down.  IMO Yao/T-Mac is very remeniscent of Shaq/Kobe, I still don't think the Rockets will be better off without a 20/10 center.  BUT I gave it alot of thought now that I have had time to digest it all and I STILL think it's a dumb line of thought. ;) 

I'm really not trying to say that the Rockets are better off with Yao -- I'm saying that they would be BETTER with a DIFFERENT center.  I just don't think they are that much worse without him as they are with him -- mainly because I think Yao has the tendency to stagnate the offense and make the Rockets predictable and beatable.  I think they would be better with a center who moves well without the ball.

However, I don't have a problem with ANYONE telling me that my line of thought is dumb -- anyone who thinks they haven't had a dumb thought is wrong.  I think all the name calling and personal attacks are wrong.

Offline Randy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2008, 11:54:14 AM »
Here is a little info on Gasol -- definately sounds like a worthless piece of trash who can't do anything, huh, ziggy?

Quote
February 19, 2008
The current leader in efficiency rating in the ACB League, Marc Gasol has built a pretty mistake-free style of game that helps him to emerge as a statistical standout. He?s long, very strong, nicely skilled, and very smart playing the game. A menace in the low post, he shows solid footwork, a decent jump-hook and a very nice turnaround jumper. Indeed his shooting range extends out to the three-point line, while he greatly combines his scoring power with his passing game, not really looking for definitive passes, but feeding his team?s offensive flow by distributing the ball from both the high and low post.

In spite of all that, his nice effort in the quarterfinal game wasn't enough for Akasvayu Girona to overcome an extremely solid Real Madrid team. Despite being regularly double-teamed, Gasol managed to amass 19 points, most of them coming off continuations towards the basket, and other off-ball stuff near the rim. The attention he delivered from Real Madrid defense didn't allow him to produce much in one-on-one plays in the low post, but he still connected on two thunderous one-handed dunks from there, one of them after capturing the baseline with an excellent spin move where he showed nice footspeed.

However, Gasol's great statistical production doesn't always necessarily reflect a dominating performance on the floor. Indeed, it didn't in this Copa. He wasn't really a go-to guy for Girona on the offensive end (mainly because of Real Madrid?s double-teaming defense, that's true), but especially he doesn't make a great impact on the defensive end. His limited mobility gets exploited in pick-and-roll situations that the opponents throw at him; he's not a great intimidator, he allows smaller opponents to shoot over him; and given his superb size, he's not the best rebounder around.

Still, Pau's younger brother is one of the most promising centers in Europe, and probably an underrated piece -by the American media- in the recent blockbuster trade that involved both brothers. Anyway, he doesn't seem to fit too well with the current Memphis Grizzlies game style, but he might be a nice asset to work in a trade in the near future.




Once again Randy, you make up shyte.  Please show me where I said he was a worthless piece of crap.  COME ON ASSHOLE DO IT.  You were comparing him to Pau, potentially as good, and I said poppycock.

I guess if you can't discuss -- try calling names, huh, zig? 

Quote
HE WAS A SECOND ROUND PICK FOR CHRIST SAKE.  IF HE IS SO DAMN GOOD WHY DID HE SLIP TO THE SECOND ROUND?  WHAT HAS HE DONE IN SPAIN?

Hmm, you certainly don't seem to be extolling much of any kind of real basketball talent.  I'm trying to read how you see much value in him in your statements -- it's kind of tough to come to any kind of conclusion there, zig.

I don't know why you have such a bug up your butt recently -- suddenly every post becomes a personal attack complete with name-calling.  Is that how you want to be treated on this board?  Have you watched any feed for Marc Gasol?  I looked up some games online after the Lakers drafted Gasol -- I saw a lot of potential there -- whether he lives up to it or not, is another.  Obviously, many thought that Bynum would never amount to anything -- at this point, Oden hasn't done anything in this league -- I'm not trying to say that Marc Gasol and Oden have the same potential or the same abilities -- just saying that neither have proven anything and they won't until they actually get on the court.  Until then, it's all conjecture and speculation.  It's some of what I thought this board was all about!

Come on Randy save me accusations of flame wars and how I have a bug up my butt.  It takes two to tango, and your attempts to point the fingers everywhere else is tiresome.  If you don't want flame wars look in the mirror.  How many intentional flame posts towards Reality have you made in the last 10 days?  Reality brings it on, that is his gig, and he has never claimed otherwise.  You on the other hand do.  You don't want flame wars, and yet you intentionally get into, and in fact start them.

I am all for talking basketball.  What I am not up for is you taking my statements arguing against your points, and then have you turn them again and again into something I didn't say.

Lets look at our two recent exchanges.  You make some statements about the Rockets and Yao.  I challenged your statements, and made my own comments.  We disgreed, plain and simple, no flaming, no bomb throwing.  You then proceeded to turn what I said into something other that what I did say, and I called you on it.  I then went over and over trying to paraphrase you, which you agreed to.  At that point you then say you never said that, and I had enough with the double talk.  I didn't try and turn the Rockets thread into a flame war.  It wouldn't have gotten there if you had just been honest about what I said and what you said.  If you can't see that then there is no hope.

Same thing here.  My whole point is real simple.  The Lakers took the Grizz to the cleaners, and no amount of rationalization and propaganda will change that.  MSC, Laker Dan, Way Out West, and Westkoast all recognize that, and they just sit back giggling at their good fortune.  Nothing at all wrong with that.  No need to try and convince the world that this was anything close to a smart move by the Grizz, just be happy with your good fortune.  You though feel compelled by your irrational hatred of Reality to try and convince all of us that the Grizz came out of this looking great.  I challenged your points, that is all I did, point by point.  Your response was like always, you turn my words into something I didn't say, and I had finally had enough.  I don't have a problem with you personally, and I can carry on a rational discussion with you, but if you are going to continue to make up crap about what I say, then be ready for me to respond.  If you want to take extreme positions expect people to respond.

 
Quote
if you are going to continue to make up crap about what I say, then be ready for me to respond.

the Grizz came out of this looking great

So is this where I should call you a name and ask you to show me where I said the that Grizz came out of this looking great?  You keep trying to critique me for making assumptions based on your posts but you don't seem to have a problem when you make assumptions based on my posts.  I never said the Grizz came out of this looking great.  I simply said that I think that the Grizz got a lot more in Marc Gasol than everybody else obviously does.  I also think that Crittenton has a bright future -- hated to see the Lakers give him up -- I wouldn't state that because he hasn't done anything (as a rookie) with the Grizz this year that he isn't a good player.  I don't think anyone is doing particularly well for Memphis right now and Crittenton needs some time to develop. 

I may be the only person on this board who sees a lot of potential in Marc Gasol -- I was one of the few on this board who thought it was worth the Lakers using their #11 first round pick to get Bynum.  I'm not saying that this means that Marc pans out -- simply stating that sometimes it does.  After watching a little video of Gasol in Spain -- I was excited at the prospect BEFORE the Lakers traded for Pau Gasol -- that hasn't changed simply because he changed teams.  I could be very wrong about Marc Gasol -- we won't know until he comes to the US and plays in the NBA -- I do know the interview that I saw with the Grizz' president in which he stated that the rights to Marc Gasol had a great deal to do with why the Grizz made the trade with the Lakers.  I realize that this had as much to do with the fact that he wouldn't be under contract before the sale but they obviously see a great deal of potential as well.  You don't view Marc Gasol as having much impact in the NBA -- obviously, I disagree -- and that assessment changes how we view the impact of this trade for the Grizzlies. 

It's STILL a horrible trade -- but when you want to jettison salary and still try and garner the rights to players or draft picks -- it makes more sense to me if you value Marc Gasol.  I'm not saying that it was a fair trade -- there is NO way that ANYONE could ever say that.  However, when you look at their criteria for why they wanted to trade Gasol and what they wanted for him -- it makes a lot more sense to me than it obviously does to you -- and the assessment of Marc Gasol has a lot to do with that viewpoint.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2008, 11:58:16 AM »
However, I don't have a problem with ANYONE telling me that my line of thought is dumb -- anyone who thinks they haven't had a dumb thought is wrong.

LOL.  I forget you go "Lurker" on my sometimes.  Please show me where I stated that I don't have dumb thoughts?  When the Rockets were rolling 9 strait without Yao I had an UTLRA dumb thought about them being better off without Yao.  I have dumb thoughts all the time, lucky for me 95% of the world is dumber than I could ever be so my dumb thoughts straddle the line between my standard for idiocy and 95% or the worlds' standard for genius.  It's hard to be so humble but it comes with the territory.

I think all the name calling and personal attacks are wrong.

IMO it's one thing to just name call and attack someone vs breaking balls and good natured smack talk.  Plus I put a ;) in my post, didn't that make it all better?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2008, 12:04:04 PM »
...I was one of the few on this board who thought it was worth the Lakers using their #11 first round pick to get Bynum.

Wow, I think you have your boards confused Randy.  Every Laker fan on this board, except me, thought the Lakers drafted the next comming of Wilt/Kareem/Shaq.  To date my comparrisons have more accurate.  Bynums numbers to date are more JB Carroll than Kareem.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline ziggy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2008, 12:08:25 PM »
So is this where I should call you a name 

and you wonder why you get into flame wars Randy.  Like I said it takes two to tango.

I never said the Grizz came out of this looking great.

Memphis is going to struggle, of course, but they will look attractive to someone who wants to buy a new franchise.

My bad Randy, you didn't say Memphis was going to look great, you said they were going to look attractive to a new buyer.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 02:13:00 PM by ziggy »
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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Offline Randy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2008, 12:32:28 PM »
Quote
So is this where I should call you a name 

and you wonder why you get into flame wars Randy.  Like I said it takes two to tango.

Perhaps my sarcasm wasn't obviously enough -- it wasn't meant as a flame -- just trying to show that we should be able to talk basketball and even disagree without the name calling.

Quote
I never said the Grizz came out of this looking great.

Memphis is going to struggle, of course, but they will look attractive to someone who wants to buy a new franchise.

My bad Randy, you didn't say Memphis was going to look great, you said they were going to look attractive to a new buyer.

I DO think that the Grizz are more attractive -- they were a horrible team BEFORE the trade -- with the trade they have jettisoned some salary making the team a little cheaper to purchase (i.e. player expenses) but at the same time having rights to some players who aren't going to demand huge salaries up front.  This team isn't going to look incredibly attractive to very many people -- but the team was already tanking before the trade and now a new perspective buyer can purchase the team for a few mill less and then have the opportunity to move the team to a new town.  Memphis hasn't been profitable and there will be some guy with too much money out there who will buy the team -- there always is.  Hopefully, it will be someone who loves the game rather than just wants another business venture.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2008, 01:03:21 PM »
My bad Randy, you didn't say Memphis was going to look great, you said they were going to look attractive to a new buyer.

Was that not a GIVEN?  There were plenty of posts and articles that stated just that aspect from the guy who actually MADE the trade.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2008, 01:09:31 PM »
Come on Randy save me accusations of flame wars and how I have a bug up my butt.  It takes two to tango, and your attempts to point the fingers everywhere else is tiresome.  If you don't want flame wars look in the mirror.  How many intentional flame posts towards Reality have you made in the last 10 days?  Reality brings it on, that is his gig, and he has never claimed otherwise.  You on the other hand do.  You don't want flame wars, and yet you intentionally get into, and in fact start them.

Beagles are ugly over sized rats!  This years Westminster Dog show was total COLLUSION!


See Randy, you have to know where to hit them even if it's below the belt.  This is only the second time I've seen ziggy go off, the last guy he went off on was...errr.....nevermind...carry on.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Skandery

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2008, 01:13:29 PM »
Quote
This board has become pretty crappy IMO.

Can't disagree more.  

I think the board is wonderful.  Not to say that you all haven't gotten on my last nerve a couple of times.  Not to say that some schticks don't get a little stale:  yes WOW, ownage is funny; yes JoMal is older than the sun; yes westkoast likes his Playskool computer; I know Rick, buy more gold; yes Ted has more wives than seasons Sloan has been coaching; and Reality has pulled every muscle in his legs with all the bandwagon jumping he's done.  

Overall, there isn't the quality of discussion (ranging on all kinds of subjects, not just basketball) quite like there is on this board.  Even if tempers flare or oneupmanship goes a tad too far.    

I'll be the sentimental fool around here and say I wouldn't trade a one of you . . .









. . . unless they give me Kwame's expiring contract. :P
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Offline ziggy

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »
My bad Randy, you didn't say Memphis was going to look great, you said they were going to look attractive to a new buyer.

Was that not a GIVEN?  There were plenty of posts and articles that stated just that aspect from the guy who actually MADE the trade.

My point is very simple.  The owner wants to sell the Grizz.  Before the deal they were a terrible franchise, and after the deal they are still a terrible franchise.  They are no more attractive now than they were before.  They have a cupboard bare of talent, in a small market and the cost of moving out will be significant, have been losing buckets of money, and are 4-5 years from coming out of it.  If they had made a less brain dead move than giving up Gasol, for Gladys Knight and the Pips, then at least they would be in a small market, losing buckets of money, with a less bare cupboard than they have now, and the opportunity to turn it around in 2-3 years, instead of 4-5.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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Offline westkoast

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Re: My grades of the trades....
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2008, 02:30:54 PM »
Quote
This board has become pretty crappy IMO.

Can't disagree more. 

I think the board is wonderful.  Not to say that you all haven't gotten on my last nerve a couple of times.  Not to say that some schticks don't get a little stale:  yes WOW, ownage is funny; yes JoMal is older than the sun; yes westkoast likes his Playskool computer; I know Rick, buy more gold; yes Ted has more wives than seasons Sloan has been coaching; and Reality has pulled every muscle in his legs with all the bandwagon jumping he's done. 

Overall, there isn't the quality of discussion (ranging on all kinds of subjects, not just basketball) quite like there is on this board.  Even if tempers flare or oneupmanship goes a tad too far.   

I'll be the sentimental fool around here and say I wouldn't trade a one of you . . .









. . . unless they give me Kwame's expiring contract. :P

 ::)

Its a V-Tech computer that's made for pre-teens, get it right.  My roomates bought it for me (Grandma's boy reference if anyone has seen it).

There is no way in heck that the Grizz trade was 'good' on their end.  I wouldn't say they got raped and pillaged.   Just raped.  However the trade is not quite over.  *IF* Pau's brother and Jarvis turn out to be solid players then it wouldn't have been as nearly one sided as it looks.  See the Lakers benefit the second Kwame was no longer able to play for them.  The Grizz might actually have a guard with nice handles in 2-3 years (Jarvis) and a half way decent big man in Gasol with having the money to at least make an attempt at a greedy free agent.  You cannot fully judge the trade YET but any time you put Kwame in the same category as Pau Gasol it's going to make people laugh (me), cry (reality), or just scratch their head (ziggy).
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 02:34:42 PM by westkoast »
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