Big Ben gone to join LBJ

[Reality]

In all honesty, where will the Spurs be in 2 years?  What is the plan to replace TD?  The Spurs are not known for making moves to aquire high caliber, franchise type players, they rely on the draft.  The Spurs have been at or near the top of the NBA for nearly a decade but that is only because of TD.  It will be extreemly tough to replace a player like TD, in fact it is close to impossible, so the Spurs future is even more bleak than the Suns.  I don't know how much longer TD will be in the league, it will be tough to see him go.  

We won't be looking for some collusion.
Grasshopper, a reminder:
Tim Dunkars future according to Pat Riley
http://forums.phillyarena.net/index.php?topic=4018.0
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2007/10/jeff_mcdonald_d_1.html
"Duncan reminds me a lot of Kareem," Riley, the Miami Heat coach, said after this morning's shootaround. "Kareem wasn't a physical center, he was a finesse center. And he played until he was 41 years old."

"I didn't start coaching Kareem until he was 32 years old," Riley said. "And he played nine more years after that. And he won four more championships after that."

Riley says he wouldn't be surprised if Duncan accomplished something similar, in terms of both success and longevity. Spurs fans can only hope he's right.

 

[westkoast]

In all honesty, where will the Spurs be in 2 years?  What is the plan to replace TD?  The Spurs are not known for making moves to aquire high caliber, franchise type players, they rely on the draft.  The Spurs have been at or near the top of the NBA for nearly a decade but that is only because of TD.  It will be extreemly tough to replace a player like TD, in fact it is close to impossible, so the Spurs future is even more bleak than the Suns.  I don't know how much longer TD will be in the league, it will be tough to see him go. 

We won't be looking for some collusion.
Grasshopper, a reminder:
Tim Dunkars future according to Pat Riley
http://forums.phillyarena.net/index.php?topic=4018.0
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2007/10/jeff_mcdonald_d_1.html
"Duncan reminds me a lot of Kareem," Riley, the Miami Heat coach, said after this morning's shootaround. "Kareem wasn't a physical center, he was a finesse center. And he played until he was 41 years old."

"I didn't start coaching Kareem until he was 32 years old," Riley said. "And he played nine more years after that. And he won four more championships after that."

Riley says he wouldn't be surprised if Duncan accomplished something similar, in terms of both success and longevity. Spurs fans can only hope he's right.

 

Isnt that how the Spurs got Duncan in the first place?  Sternfish "fixing" things.

[WayOutWest]

We won't be looking for some collusion.
Grasshopper, a reminder:

I think you are right, two collusions in one life time are hard to come by let alone 3.  TD draft and 2007 Suns Championship Suspension will be hard to duplicate.

Tim Dunkars future according to Pat Riley
http://forums.phillyarena.net/index.php?topic=4018.0
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2007/10/jeff_mcdonald_d_1.html
"Duncan reminds me a lot of Kareem," Riley, the Miami Heat coach, said after this morning's shootaround. "Kareem wasn't a physical center, he was a finesse center. And he played until he was 41 years old."

"I didn't start coaching Kareem until he was 32 years old," Riley said. "And he played nine more years after that. And he won four more championships after that."

Riley says he wouldn't be surprised if Duncan accomplished something similar, in terms of both success and longevity.

TD does not have a skyhook nor does have a team mate who can step up and fill his shoes.  GKnob and Parker are 3rd tier players, they cannot produce what Magic and Worthy produced durring their run.  Unless TD picks up a 1st or 2nd tier team mate he will not keep the Spurs on top.  LeBron and a Spurs uniform IMO would be a perfect fit, Wade is another good option, Kobe might be too old.  I don't see things improving much in Miami, Cleveland might win enough to keep LeBron but I wonder if a dream tandom of TD and LeBron/Wade is possilble.  Other than those two I can't think of another player that could practically ensure TD and the Spurs on top.  AGAIN, the Spurs are not known for making franchise altering moves like that, they just get lucky/collusion in the draft and build around that gift.

Spurs fans can only hope he's right.

My hope is the Spurs and their fans continue to hope instead of LEARNING from the Lakers and Celtics.

[Lurker]

TD is like Larry Bird to me, a hated rival but someone I admire a great deal, in fact TD is the player I admire the most in the NBA since Shaq's fall from grace in 2001-2002.  On and off the court he is terrific person.

One thing is that I see Duncan like Jabbar or Parrish...guys who relied on fundamentals more than speed/athleticism/brute force.  So like those guys I could see him play until 38-40 years old and still be effective.

Second is that the Spurs have 2 young PF/C in the pipeline.  Mahinmi is 19/20 year old Frenchy who was probably the 3rd best player on the national team (behind Parker & Diaw).  He was the second youngest player to be accepted into the French national program...the youngest being Parker.  He has played in the NBDL and was the starting C for the all star team.  Also last year they drafted Tiago Splitter who is generally considered one of the top 2 big men in Europe right now.  These two prospects are part of the reason they beleived they could let Scola go as cheap as they did.  At this point I have a difficult time second guessing the Spurs ability to judge talent.

Will either replace Duncan...no.  But then who replaces a superstar...one that even Stern last week called one of the top 10 in history.  Who replaced Magic, Bird, MJ, etc?  The key is whether the players can plug into the system and win.  That no one knows.  Parker will hit his prime in 2-3 years.  The Spurs are experts at working the cap.  There is a lot of player movement that can take place over the next few years so to predict exactly what will happen is a crap shoot.

[westkoast]

TD is like Larry Bird to me, a hated rival but someone I admire a great deal, in fact TD is the player I admire the most in the NBA since Shaq's fall from grace in 2001-2002.  On and off the court he is terrific person.

One thing is that I see Duncan like Jabbar or Parrish...guys who relied on fundamentals more than speed/athleticism/brute force.  So like those guys I could see him play until 38-40 years old and still be effective.

Second is that the Spurs have 2 young PF/C in the pipeline.  Mahinmi is 19/20 year old Frenchy who was probably the 3rd best player on the national team (behind Parker & Diaw).  He was the second youngest player to be accepted into the French national program...the youngest being Parker.  He has played in the NBDL and was the starting C for the all star team.  Also last year they drafted Tiago Splitter who is generally considered one of the top 2 big men in Europe right now.  These two prospects are part of the reason they beleived they could let Scola go as cheap as they did.  At this point I have a difficult time second guessing the Spurs ability to judge talent.

Will either replace Duncan...no.  But then who replaces a superstar...one that even Stern last week called one of the top 10 in history.  Who replaced Magic, Bird, MJ, etc?  The key is whether the players can plug into the system and win.  That no one knows.  Parker will hit his prime in 2-3 years.  The Spurs are experts at working the cap.  There is a lot of player movement that can take place over the next few years so to predict exactly what will happen is a crap shoot.

Bottom line you never fully replace a player of Duncan's caliber.  In fact if you want to go back through NBA history in a time machine you'd be hard pressed to find more then a few guys who could really take over his spot and the Spurs play at the same level.

[atom2030]

Back to Big Ben and the Cavs (there are enough Duncan threads around here)

Will it work? Wallace on the Bulls was the ultimate failure, as the bulls TEAM play was lost when you play 4 on 5. And when the defensive power left him as well, every second he played was a missed opportunity to get TT or Noaf more court time.

But the bulls had no LeBron.

Can the Cavs afford to play Wallace at the end of games?
Can Wallace make life easier for LeBron?
Can the Cavs really go to the finals a few more times (*) ?


I guess their chances didn't get much better now.




(*) before Smith and Wallace are to old and creaky in abot 1.5 seasons.

[Derek Bodner]

The Spurs are not known for making moves to aquire high caliber, franchise type players, they rely on the draft

Um...
what teams are known for making moves to acquire franchise type players outside of the draft?

Outside of Shaq, and KG (after over a decade of attempts to build around him), how often does that happen?

[WayOutWest]

Back to Big Ben and the Cavs (there are enough Duncan threads around here)

Will it work? Wallace on the Bulls was the ultimate failure, as the bulls TEAM play was lost when you play 4 on 5. And when the defensive power left him as well, every second he played was a missed opportunity to get TT or Noaf more court time.

But the bulls had no LeBron.

Can the Cavs afford to play Wallace at the end of games?
Can Wallace make life easier for LeBron?
Can the Cavs really go to the finals a few more times (*) ?


I guess their chances didn't get much better now.




(*) before Smith and Wallace are to old and creaky in abot 1.5 seasons.

What position is Wallace going to play?  Big Z is a solid big man, especially in the East.  One of the Cavs biggest liabilities is scoring beyond LeBron, Big Ben just made the problem worse.

[atom2030]

half of the Cavs forum on realGM does see that same problem, the other half thinks sticking Ben between scorers like BronBeon and Z reduces his job to his (alleged) speciality: D

[Randy]

Back to Big Ben and the Cavs (there are enough Duncan threads around here)

Will it work? Wallace on the Bulls was the ultimate failure, as the bulls TEAM play was lost when you play 4 on 5. And when the defensive power left him as well, every second he played was a missed opportunity to get TT or Noaf more court time.

But the bulls had no LeBron.

Can the Cavs afford to play Wallace at the end of games?
Can Wallace make life easier for LeBron?
Can the Cavs really go to the finals a few more times (*) ?


I guess their chances didn't get much better now.




(*) before Smith and Wallace are to old and creaky in abot 1.5 seasons.

I do think that Ben Wallace will be more effective in Cleveland than he was in Chicago (okay, that's not saying anything since he was a bust in Chicago).  One of the reasons why Big Ben was so successful in Detroit was that the Pistons have four shooters/scorers and they didn't need Wallace to score -- simply rebound and play defense.  Big Z hasn't just lost a step but almost two steps -- I definately don't see the Cavs being able to play Wallace and Z together -- I think they are hoping that Wallace is their starting center and phasing Z out by getting younger and quicker.  I think that Wally World will help in this area too -- he is a more consistent shooter than anyone other than LeBron that the Cavs have had or currently have.  Offensively, I think the Cavs got better.  However, it's the defense that I question -- Hughes and Gooden were the Cavs best defenders (okay, I think Varajao is a better weak side defender than Gooden) -- now they have Wallace (who HAS been a very strong defensive player but he has proved, at least to date, that he needs to the right system to play in) so perhaps Wallace is a bit of an upgrade over Gooden but who is going to replace Hughes on the perimeter?  Wally World is a horrible defender.  I think defensively the Cavs got worse.

Bottom line with the trades -- LeBron has made it clear to management behind closed doors and given veiled threats to management in the press that he expected Ferry to make some moves or his longterm longevity with the Cavs was in question.  Ferry made the best deals that he could given what he had to deal with.  Sometimes GM's simply feel the need to "shake it up" in order to look like you are really doing something -- I think this is what the Cavs just did.  Offensively I think they get better -- defensively, I think they get worse.  Bottom line?  About the same (unless Wallace regains the look that he had with the Pistons).

[Lurker]

TD does not have a skyhook

No, insteasd he has an 18 foot bank shot that is almost as automatic.

In four years who do you expect to be more productive...a 36 year old Duncan or a 34 year old Kobe?  Before you jump to a knee jerk answer think about this...how many 36-40 year old C/PF are still in the league?  How many 34-36 year old SG/SF?

Kevin Willis and Mutumbo played until they were 40; I see no reason why Duncan cannot still be effective until he is 40.  However I really struggle to think of any SG/SF that played past age 35 and was still effective...maybe Finley but I can't see Kobe accepting that type of role.

GKnob and Parker are 3rd tier players, they cannot produce what Magic and Worthy produced durring their run.

I wouldn't put either on Magic's level...he wasd a tier 1 player IMO.  Maybe you consider Magic tier 3.  But I would say both Parker & Ginobili are on the same level as Worthy.  Maybe even better in Manu's case.  Worthy couldn't create his own shot and was not a strong rebounder.

[atom2030]

man, when will you stop hijacking the Ben Wallace thread for some useless Spurs discussion ...
 

[Derek Bodner]

man, when will you stop hijacking the Ben Wallace thread for some useless Spurs discussion ...
 

You're new around here.  Every thread, no matter what the original topic, will end up as a Lakers or Spurs discussion.

[westkoast]

man, when will you stop hijacking the Ben Wallace thread for some useless Spurs discussion ...
 

You're new around here.  Every thread, no matter what the original topic, will end up as a Lakers or Spurs discussion.

Of course because of the 11 posters we have 7 are laker/spurs fans 

There has always been a problem on the Cavs of who outside of Bron can score...so they trade Larry Hughes (a scorer) and Marshall (a decent 3 point shooter) for Wally and Ben Wallace?  Did they trade for the 2008 Wally or the 2002 Wally? 

 

[Derek Bodner]

Did they trade for the 2008 Wally or the 2002 Wally? 

Even the 2008 Wally averages more ppg and does so more efficiently than Hughes.  Wally and West's shooting will help LeBron a lot IMO.