Let's help Ed Stefanski "Fix" the Sixers.

[rickortreat]

By "Fix", I mean turn them into a team with a good shot at winning the title.

What prompted this thread is an article by Charles Rosen posted on Fox Sports, which was written after yesterday's win against Miami.

Basically he said that the Sixers should keep Miller and trade Dalembert and Evans.  He also thought that Rodney Carney and Thadeus Young were error-prone.

He also said what the Sixers needed were a big man with a post-up game that would demand double teams, a wing man who could hit from the outside and create shots for himself, and a bigger Power Forward than Evans.

What I think is that Dalembert and Evans are backup players, and are deficient as starters.  Evans can't shoot, and while this would be fine on a team with a good front-line player to team up with, the Sixers don't have that.  Dalembert is too foul prone- and still doesn't understand the game well enough. He may just not be smart enough to ever be a good big man, but he is a good shot blocker and rebounder.  Again, if the Sixers had another big that could post up and demand double teams, Dalmebert or Evans would be serviceable starter- role players.

Bottom line- the Sixers do not have a competitive front line sufficient to challenge for a title.  The team needs to look at Herbert Hill and Shavlik Randolph so they can make a determination if either of them can play. The most important piece for the Sixers is a real power forward who can post up, be the primary scorer and rebounder.  I would trade anyone except Iguodala and Louis Williams to get such a player. They are using Jason Smith in that role now, and I don't think he has all the skills, but it takes young big men time to develop.

The Sixers are also a poor passing team in the half-court, and can easily be disrupted by a defense that controls Andre Miller.  They turn over the ball too much, and often miss their free throws.  IF they could improve in that area, they proabably would be a playoff team, but still not a real contender.  Either Willie Green needs to be a better ball handler himself, or they need another player at the two.

When the Sixers run, they are a pretty good finishing team, and when they can rebound and defend they can win.  They have problems with teams that have strong inside games and players.  It's rare that the Sixers bigs win against who they face. 

At guard we lack defensive quickness.  Andre Miller can't stay in front of quick guards, and Louis Williams is still lacking in experience.  Still, both are above-average players.  Miller has a post up game and many guards can't handle him inside.  IMO, the Sixers can't afford to trade Miller until Williams is ready to be the point guard.  I think the team is better off keeping both of them, as Williams develops those two could be one of the better back-courts in the NBA.  You think Parker is quick? Williams makes everyone look slow, even Dwayne Wade!

The Sixers have more three's than they know what to do with- the mistake that Billy King kept making was drafting the same guy!  Why Thad Young over Al Horford?  Especially when they already had Andre Igoudala- good enough to be a three on a championship team, and Rodney Carney and Kyle Korver and Willie Green.  Carney should be traded, and Korver, if they can get the right player in return.

There is still time for the Sixers to do something this year- they need to evaluate their young bigs to see if they are keepers or trade bait. None of the ones I've seen this year are essential to the team, although if they didn't have Dalembert they would have lost a few more.

I think the team is not quite a playoff team, but probably has the talent to be one.  Their 7-3 record in the last 10 is as much a product of the schedule as the team.  We'll know more after the Sixer go on a road trip, visiting the Kings, Blazers, Sonics, Jazz, Lakers and Nuggets.  They should be able to beat the Kings- maybe Cheeks will try something other than guarding Miki Moore with Kyle Korver!  They should also be able to beat the Sonics- not sure about the Blazers.  The Lakers, Jazz and Nuggets are all too much for the Sixers to handle-unless they can find a bench player who can be an inside presence.

[jn]

Did you mean Thad Young over Al Thornton?  Horford went 9 spots before the Sixers had a pick.

[rickortreat]

Did you mean Thad Young over Al Thornton?  Horford went 9 spots before the Sixers had a pick.

Yes I did.  Thanks for the correction.

[Derek Bodner]

He also thought that Rodney Carney and Thadeus Young were error-prone.

I've been incredibly impressed with Thad.  He's a very, very smart 19 year old basketball player.  His skills are still developing (but not devoid), but give me a kid with his basketball IQ, his athleticism, and his work ethic, and I'm pretty confident he's going to make it in this league.  I haven't seen a 19 year old rotate as well as he does, both offensively and defensively, moving without the ball, rotating defensively, setting screens, etc in a while.

I also disagree with him about moving Dalembert instead of Miller.  I'm not a huge fan of Dalembert, and in fact I'd end up looking to move both.  But if I had to look to move one or the other, and could only move one, I'd move Miller.  The Sixers are not close to contender status, and Miller's age and contract status (would he want to re-sign here on a team rebuilding?) makes me think we should get value for him now.  That and the fact that I want to see what Williams can do at the PG spot to try to assess our needs for the future.

The Sixers have more three's than they know what to do with- the mistake that Billy King kept making was drafting the same guy!  Why Thad Young over Al Horford?

Since you've already clarified that it's Thornton, I ask what do you think Thornton brings that this team needs?  Thornton's another wing player, who's shown no discernible skill other than scoring.  He doesn't rebound well, and has an eddy curry'esque line of nearly as many turnovers (0.96) as assists, steals and blocks combined (1.0).  He's not a post player (nearly 76% of his attempts are on jump shots), he can't defend power forwards, and he doesn't rebound at all.

In fact, I think Young may have more of a chance to be a power forward than Thornton.  Young actually measured in taller than Thornton at the predraft camp (young was 6'7.5", thornton 6'7"), and that's with Young only being 18 at the time (and could very well still be growing).  More importantly, Young had a longer standing reach by 2 inches, and was stronger as well.

More importantly, looking at skillset, Young's displayed a very good ability to finish around the hoop, and has shown post up, rebounding, and shotblocking skills as well.

Last but not least, Thornton's a 23 year old who has very little ability to every develop anything but his scoring, whereas Young's 19 and just beginning to tap his potential.

I'm just curious why you think Thornton's skillset is more needed than Young's, and why Young is the same guy as Rodney Carney, but Thornton is different.  In fact, I think Carney is more redundant with Thornton than he is with Young.  I've been very pleasantly surprised with Young, and I don't know how you can call this a mistake.   If you want a mistake, passing on Ronnie Brewer for Rodney Carney was a huge mistake.  But Young looks to be a fixture of this team in my opinion.

[westkoast]

Andre Miller is such a waste of talent IMO.  He still looks out of shape at times and its more then a quarter of the way into the season.  Every year this guy has to play himself into shape it's crazy.  The thing is that a number of teams will want someone who can move the ball as well as Andre Miller.  He throws flashy lobs!!!!   They (the sixers) need a player in the post who has enough moves to be a legit threat down low.  They are in the bottom half of the teams in scoring and 3 pt % even though Kyle Korver has the potential to be a good shooter if he had more wide open looks.  Now what player would they get?  DB doesn't like Eddy Curry.  I tend to disagree I think that he is enough of a presence in the middle that it should give Igs and Korver more space to operate.  The problem is the Sixers are not that great on the glass and Eddy Curry is not what I would call a rebounder.

[Skandery]

Now what player would they get?  DB doesn't like Eddy Curry.  I tend to disagree I think that he is enough of a presence in the middle that it should give Igs and Korver more space to operate.  The problem is the Sixers are not that great on the glass and Eddy Curry is not what I would call a rebounder.

Trading for Eddy Curry?  That'll definitely help Ed Stefanski . . .


. . . right into the looney bin.  You're right though, Curry is not what anyone would call a rebounder.  He's also not a passer, a defender, a FT shooter, a team player, a hard worker, a leader, or anything resembling a good locker room influence. 
His utter lack of self-respect and work ethic has actually lead to Isiah Thomas benching him in favor of David Lee---Isiah has had enough!!

[jn]

While you may be right about the need to get rid of some of these players the question is who could you possibly get for guys like Dalembert and Evans?  It's hard to imagine even the worst GM's in the league giving up anything of value for them. 

[Derek Bodner]

the question is who could you possibly get for guys like Dalembert and Evans?

Cap space.  Right now the Sixers sit at about 4-6 million in cap space next summer.  Getting rid of those two guys would put them at about 20 million in cap space (that's counting in the cap holds Iguodala and Williams will have).

Replace Andre Miller and Reggie Evans with Jermaine O'Neal, Derrick Rose and Josh Smith and you might be on to something.

[Lurker]

Trade Miller + Evans to Miami for Haslem + Davis.

Haslem gives a better offensive option than Evans.  And Davis' expiring contract helps cap space this summer.

[westkoast]

Now what player would they get?  DB doesn't like Eddy Curry.  I tend to disagree I think that he is enough of a presence in the middle that it should give Igs and Korver more space to operate.  The problem is the Sixers are not that great on the glass and Eddy Curry is not what I would call a rebounder.

Trading for Eddy Curry?  That'll definitely help Ed Stefanski . . .


. . . right into the looney bin.  You're right though, Curry is not what anyone would call a rebounder.  He's also not a passer, a defender, a FT shooter, a team player, a hard worker, a leader, or anything resembling a good locker room influence. 
His utter lack of self-respect and work ethic has actually lead to Isiah Thomas benching him in favor of David Lee---Isiah has had enough!!

You got to think who else would trade for Andre Miller other then Isiah?!  The guy is everything you've stated Curry except he is no force in the post.  Miller is a good passer ill give him that but he is also a  poor defender, works about as hard as Paris Hilton, and doesn't seem to have any influence on the locker room himself.  The Nuggets and Clippers both felt they could get rid of him.  The Knicks are dead last in assists per game and Andre Miller could help them out in that category for sure.

All knocks on Curry stand but the fact of the matter is he can play in the post.  Korver is deadly when he is wide open but there is no reason for the defense to even give him any space with no one in the middle to get anything done.

This is a tough question though because if you look the Sixers are in the bottom half of every team statistical category.

[Derek Bodner]

You got to think who else would trade for Andre Miller other then Isiah?!  The guy is everything you've stated Curry except he is no force in the post.  Miller is a good passer ill give him that but he is also a  poor defender, works about as hard as Paris Hilton, and doesn't seem to have any influence on the locker room himself.

Comparing andre miller to eddy curry is a joke.  For someone you claim to not be in shape, he has averaged 34.6 minutes per game for his career, and never looks winded at the end of games.  He plays the game very hard, and is a very smart player.  There's a reason he's shooting 50% from the field, despite not having 3 pt range.  He DOES have a post game for a guard, and a very good midrange game, and takes smart shots.  He's a very good team player, and is an incredible passer on cuts.  He's not a good defender, but he's not Mike Bibby either.  His opponents 15.4 PER and 47.8% eFG% are very respectable.  The Nuggets felt like they could get rid of him because they got AI for him.

Andre Miller is a good player in this league, with a fair contract that only has 1 more year left, that doesn't hurt you defensively, and is not a negative in the clubhouse.  The same could not be said for Eddy Curry, who is exactly NOT what the Sixers are looking for.  Yeah, he can score down low.  But he doesn't pass out of the post AT ALL and will not help Korver.  He doesn't defend, doesn't rebound, and his contract is 2 years longer than Miller's.

Seriously, wk, you just suggested a guy who averages 0.6 assists per game FOR HIS CAREER should be brought in to help Korver get looks, and compared Eddy Curry's in-game intensity to Andre Miller's.

[westkoast]

Comparing andre miller to eddy curry is a joke.  For someone you claim to not be in shape, he has averaged 34.6 minutes per game for his career, and never looks winded at the end of games.  He plays the game very hard, and is a very smart player.  There's a reason he's shooting 50% from the field, despite not having 3 pt range.  He DOES have a post game for a guard, and a very good midrange game, and takes smart shots.  He's a very good team player, and is an incredible passer on cuts.  He's not a good defender, but he's not Mike Bibby either.  His opponents 15.4 PER and 47.8% eFG% are very respectable.  The Nuggets felt like they could get rid of him because they got AI for him.

DB um...both the Denver Nuggets and Los Angeles Clippers coaches have openly complained about his conditioning.  Not just to the local media but to the AP.    The Nuggets were very unhappy with Miller coming into the season out of shape.  He came in 15 pounds over weight.   There was a point in time when George Karl said he was playing Andre a lot of minutes because they needed to get him into shape as soon as possible.  Both Nene and Miller PISSED George Karl off.    The Clippers were just as unhappy as he has to play himself into shape.  I can play basketball for long periods of time but that doesn't mean I am in good shape.  There is a difference.  34 minutes a game for the general of your squad is not very good.  I mean Yao Ming who is a big man who is notorious for not having much stamina is currently playing just as many minutes.

From what I heard when he was with the Clippers he was not that big with the players or coaches.  He can pass and he can get into the middle but that is about it.  His work ethic is poor and so is his defense.  The Nuggets got rid of him because it was a no brainer and George Karl was not entirely happy with his play.  He brings great lobs to any teams but there was a reason that Earl Boykins was getting a lot of minutes for a long period of time before he fell out of good graces.  Denver was unhappy that Andre Miller was trying to score too much himself to get going as well.  He was pounding the ball and not moving it as much as they wanted.  That was stated by Denver fans themselves.

Andre Miller is a good player in this league, with a fair contract that only has 1 more year left, that doesn't hurt you defensively, and is not a negative in the clubhouse.  The same could not be said for Eddy Curry, who is exactly NOT what the Sixers are looking for.  Yeah, he can score down low.  But he doesn't pass out of the post AT ALL and will not help Korver.  He doesn't defend, doesn't rebound, and his contract is 2 years longer than Miller's.

He doesn't hurt you defensively?  I think that a number of people would disagree with you on that.  Most guards can get around him to get into the teeth of the defense.

I know he doesn't pass out of the post but teams do tend to cheat towards him because he is much stronger then most of the players that guard him.  That is what I am speaking on.

Seriously, wk, you just suggested a guy who averages 0.6 assists per game FOR HIS CAREER

Yao Ming only averages 1.5 assists per game and would you say he does not help create space for anyone on his squad?!?!

And the reason Eddy Curry was brought up is because the Sixers really don't have too much to offer others teams right now.  No other team is going to pull a trigger on a trade for less then the Knicks.  Any big trade to shake things up would have to include Andre Igs.

[Derek Bodner]

DB um...both the Denver Nuggets and Los Angeles Clippers coaches have openly complained about his conditioning.  Not just to the local media but to the AP.    The Nuggets were very unhappy with Miller coming into the season out of shape.   There was a point in time when George Karl said he was playing Andre a lot of minutes because they needed to get him into shape as soon as possible.   The Clippers were just as unhappy as he has to play himself into shape.  I can play basketball for long periods of time but that doesn't mean I am in good shape.  There is a difference.

There's a difference between "he could be in better shape", and "he's lazy and ineffective because he's out of shape".  I can tell you from watching him this year, he's not ineffective in the minutes he's playing.  Eddy Curry, on the other hand, is.  There's a reason he averages 25 mpg for his career, and a large part of that is being out of shape. 

Seriously, wk.  Watch the pace that Miller plays at, and the pace that Curry plays at.  Watch the effort that Miller exudes on the court, and the effort Curry exudes on the court.  This isn't even close. 

I think that your assertion that his work ethic is poor is wrong.  I see a player that plays hard, plays smart, and obviously puts in his time in practice because he's on the same page as his teammates. 

From what I heard when he was with the Clippers he was not that big with the players or coaches.  He can pass and he can get into the middle but that is about it.  His work ethic is poor and so is his defense.  The Nuggets got rid of him because it was a no brainer and George Karl was not entirely happy with his play.

He played 1 year with the Clippers.  I'm not sure you can get a definitive read on his effect on his teammates from that one season. 

And I'd like you to find one player George Karl is entirely happy with his play.

As for defense, no, I don't think he kills you defensively.  If his opponents could get into the lane at any time they wanted to, they'd have a higher iFG% than 28%.  They'd have a better than the 2/1 assists to turnover ratio they have against him.  He's not a great defender, but he's not a terrible defender either.

Your assertions that his defense and work ethic are poor I just can't agree with.  Particularly when you're comparing him to EDDY CURRY.

Yao Ming only averages 1.5 assists per game and would you say he does not help create space for anyone on his squad?!?!

Yao Ming's averaging 2.4 assists per game this year.  That's 4x as many assists as Eddy Curry is.  Think about that for a second.

And the reason Eddy Curry was brought up is because the Sixers really don't have too much to offer others teams right now.

Which is why trying to slap together a trade to win now isn't what the Sixers have in mind.

No other team is going to pull a trigger on a trade for less then the Knicks

Are you trying to tell me that no other team would want Andre Miller than the Knicks?  I think that's very wrong.  And what the Knicks would be offering (or what you think the Sixers should pursue) are not what the Sixers need.  Slapping together a few pieces to try to win now isn't going to work, and isn't what the Sixers are looking for.  There are no quick fixes, which is what trading for Eddy Curry would be trying to do.

[Skandery]

Seriously, wk, you just suggested a guy who averages 0.6 assists per game FOR HIS CAREER should be brought in to help Korver get looks, and compared Eddy Curry's in-game intensity to Andre Miller's.

The madness never stops with westkoast, does it?  

When my stupid job gives me some time, I'm jumping in this one, too.

[WayOutWest]

When my stupid job....

Sounds like your company has the right man. 

You float a big fat one over the plate like that.......