Top NBA guard duos

[WayOutWest]

BTW there was no foul call on that play.  Bet there would have been 3 whistles if it was Kobe, LBJ, Wade or some other American star.

That's called the "Benefit of the Tier 1 and 2 Doubt"  Tier 3 types don't get as much love.  Hard to tell when Manu gets fouled anyway since he flails around like a taser gun victim at the slightest contact.

[Lurker]

That's called the "Benefit of the Tier 1 and 2 Doubt"  Tier 3 types don't get as much love.  Hard to tell when Manu gets fouled anyway since he flails around like a taser gun victim at the slightest contact.

So when does a top 8 player based on efficiency (and #1 when standardized to 40 minutes) move from tier 3 to tier 1?  BTW the other 7 players all average 35-40 minutes while Manu plays less than 30.

Or maybe if we look at Pts/Reb/Assts combined then Ray Allen, Chauncy Billups, Dwayne Wade should be considered tier 3 also? 

[Skandery]

Don't take that bait, Lurker.

WOW knows who his daddy is, and the man is from Baha Bianca, Argentina.

[Lurker]

Don't take that bait, Lurker.

WOW knows who his daddy is, and the man is from Baha Bianca, Argentina.

But once you throw out the net it can be fun to poke at the catch.

[WayOutWest]

So when does a top 8 player based on efficiency (and #1 when standardized to 40 minutes) move from tier 3 to tier 1?  BTW the other 7 players all average 35-40 minutes while Manu plays less than 30.

Or maybe if we look at Pts/Reb/Assts combined then Ray Allen, Chauncy Billups, Dwayne Wade should be considered tier 3 also? 

The only "bait" I threw out there was the taser gun, no way I consider Manu a tier 1 or 2 guy.  Tier 1 is a very exclusive club these days.  TD, KG and Bron aka "franchise guys" who make you a legit title contendor.  Tier 2 is guys like Kobe, Yao, Nash, Howard and Bosh aka "franchise guys" that make your franshise worth watching but not necessarily a LEGIT title contendor.  Third tier guys like the ones you mentioned Ray, Chauncey, Wade pluse guys like Dirk, Marion, Amare, Iverson, JO, T-Mac and AK are guys who are legit stars in the league but they are all missing something in their game or mentality.  None of those guys in the 3rd teir play much D other than Chauncey and he's not an unguardable offensive weapon that can change the outcome of a game singlehandedly like Iverson or T-Mac.  We had this discussion before and I stated the same arguements.  No true knock on GNob, I just wouldn't start a franchise with that guy cause he's not going to win me a title nor is he going to fill any seats.

[Lurker]

No true knock on GNob, I just wouldn't start a franchise with that guy cause he's not going to win me a title nor is he going to fill any seats.

No he will just win Olympic gold, NBA titles and a few world championships. A little bit more hardware than any of your tier 1 guys.  Only reason I wouldn't start a franchise with him is his age.

And the filling seats is IMO directly related to the lack of coverage by ESPN.  When the Spurs played the Rockets, Ginobili stole the inbounds and dunked OVER Yao.  But not 1 mention on ESPN or even consideration for play of the day.  But hey Kobe was there (top plays) with a twisting layup around a couple defenders.  Even the game against the Mavs the other night...most of the whole 53 seconds that ESPN dedicated to the highlights were about Dallas.  The play Reality posted earlier didn't make it to the air.

[Reality]

No true knock on GNob, I just wouldn't start a franchise with that guy cause he's not going to win me a title nor is he going to fill any seats.

No he will just win Olympic gold, NBA titles and a few world championships. A little bit more hardware than any of your tier 1 guys.  Only reason I wouldn't start a franchise with him is his age.

  Excellent.

WayOutWest Tier 1 is a very exclusive club these days.  TD, KG and Bron aka "franchise guys" who make you a legit title contendor.  Tier 2 is guys like Kobe,

  even small progesses in your views are encouraging. 

[WayOutWest]

No he will just win Olympic gold, NBA titles and a few world championships. A little bit more hardware than any of your tier 1 guys.  Only reason I wouldn't start a franchise with him is his age.

ZERO, ZIP, NADA NBA titles without TD, which is why TD is tier 1 and GNob is tier 3.  You are dellusional if you think GNob is a franchise player, he's not close, not in today's NBA.

And the filling seats is IMO directly related to the lack of coverage by ESPN.  When the Spurs played the Rockets, Ginobili stole the inbounds and dunked OVER Yao.  But not 1 mention on ESPN or even consideration for play of the day.  But hey Kobe was there (top plays) with a twisting layup around a couple defenders.  Even the game against the Mavs the other night...most of the whole 53 seconds that ESPN dedicated to the highlights were about Dallas.  The play Reality posted earlier didn't make it to the air.

That's the nature of the NBA and the beast known as the average NBA fan a.k.a consumer b.k.a $

[rickortreat]

"So when does a top 8 player based on efficiency (and #1 when standardized to 40 minutes) move from tier 3 to tier 1?  BTW the other 7 players all average 35-40 minutes while Manu plays less than 30.

Or maybe if we look at Pts/Reb/Assts combined then Ray Allen, Chauncy Billups, Dwayne Wade should be considered tier 3 also?"

How about when he actually PLAYS for 35-40 minutes a game like the guys who put up all those points?

If your contention is that Manu could do that when given the chance, then the question is why would Pops limit his minutes.

Let's see Manu put up 51 pts, in a night like AI, and then we can talk about where Manu really belongs?

Based on the stats however, right now it is apparent that San Antonio does have the best backcourt in the league.

[Reality]

rickortreat  How about when he actually PLAYS for 35-40 minutes a game like the guys who put up all those points?

37/8/6 in 36 minutes over the Jazz.  It's a repeat of the previous night.  The block of Boozer was the bomb 
Lurker, Findawg is in playoff form the last couple games.
Parker had an off night but hit one when it counted to go up 96-93.
Missed FTs by both Jazz and Spurs down the stretch.  Not SuperManu tho.
Any FT advantage by Spurs offset by the numerous bogus calls to Kobe Deron in the last 3 minutes.

[Lurker]

If your contention is that Manu could do that when given the chance, then the question is why would Pops limit his minutes.

Same reason Pop limits Duncan's minutes and Horry's minutes and Finley's minutes and etc.  You get the idea.

It is because the Spurs plan on playing close to 100 games and hoist hardware.  They don't burn themselves out for regular season acclaim.

[Reality]

Manu highlights.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=th6He0tdaC8
Includes the block of Diop and a nifty assist to noneother then Fabi for the dunk.
My favorite is the right handed dribble drive vs Dallas.

W.o.W.  ZERO, ZIP, NADA NBA titles without TD, which is why TD is tier 1 and GNob is tier 3.  You are dellusional if you think GNob is a franchise player, he's not close, not in today's NBA.

  He's got a point Lurker.  The .500 Dynasty is currently at 11-8. 

[WayOutWest]

He's got a point Lurker.  The .500 Dynasty is currently at 11-8. 

I guess you haven't seen Baron Davis in action. 

[westkoast]

The reason his minutes are limited is because he comes off the bench and that's the way the rotations are set.  If you can afford to play a key player only 30 minutes a game then you will be in good shape when the playoffs come.  That is why a few of us were saying its crazy that the big three in Boston are playing so many minutes.  Pop should be given props for not playing Manu a lot.  Not vice versa.

I do have to agree with W.O.W based on how he breaks it down.  I don't think Manu could hold a franchise on his shoulders alone.  He is a great player but that doesn't mean he can make a team a contender on his own.  He plays very well inside a great system.  If he were to be magically traded to ATL for the new European super star Reality finds via the Internet ala Luis Scola or Flabs he wouldn't make them into an Orlando Magic or Cleveland Cavs.

[rickortreat]

The reason his minutes are limited is because he's not a top-line player that his team depends on.  They can bring in Finley and still beat other teams.  Duncan plays over 30 min. a game because the Spurs do depend on him.

No top tier player sits on the bench during tip-off or gets less than 30 min. a game.  Their coaches know that their teams would suffer a severe drop off in the quality of play if they sat one of them down.

Sure you want your players rested, but not at the expense of winning games.

The Spurs have a luxury in that they are deeper than other teams, but they're not deep enough at Center to let TD get his rest.

Only Spurs fans and Argentinians think Manu is a top 10 player.