Author Topic: Midseason trades and Championships  (Read 5394 times)

Offline Reality

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2007, 02:17:54 PM »
Why would any team want to trade for Kobe if he was going to be an FA after the season. 
To pursue a world title.  Also on the chance he might reup after the title.
Why did teams trade for Mark Aguirre, Clyde the Glyde, and Sheed?  Unless your Wild Blue YAWNderism does not allow you to address the subject.
Since you and Koastie keep spouting it CANT be done.
5 Championships in all, including 3 the very same 1/2 season they acquired them and 2 more back to back titles to boot.

I'll be back for a recap.

Phil Jacksons wanting to trade Kobe, approaching Kupkake in Dec 2003 should also be ignored.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2007, 03:57:14 PM »
Yes Reality, still, after bringing this up for the 10000th time it still cannot be done.  I've literally listed 10 reasons why it couldn't be done and you magically pretend like you didn't see them.

Instead of being an idiot why don't you tell us who this trade would have worked involving.  Until then no one should reply to this thread.

Oh btw...Phil Jackson didn't approach Kupchek about dealing Kobe in Dec of the 03-04 season.  Quit making things up.  The Lakers started off the season RED HOT.  Quit being an idiot and a liar.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2007, 04:26:19 PM »
Also on the chance he might reup after the title.

YAWN

95
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Offline Reality

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2007, 04:32:41 PM »
Also on the chance he might reup after the title.

YAWN

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Yeah it was better to do the .500 Dynasty.
Wild Blue YAWNder 1,478,866

Back for a recap.

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2007, 05:14:18 PM »
Quote
The no trade clause had more to do with him resigning then Shaq leaving.  Reason being?  Kobe couldn't be put in the spot Shaq was if he had the no trade clause.

Couldn't he have just negotiated this aspect with his sign-n-trade team, also?

Not when his wife was telling him she wants to stay in LA to be by her family.

I also don't see how it makes sense even from the Lakers stand point to do a sign and trade then.  Who could they have possibly got to fill his role?   You guys keep talking like its possible but have not brought up a single player, scenario where it would work.   Who at the time even had the cap space to pay Kobe upwards towards 20 million a year?  Who was a better perimeter player coming off that 03-04 season?  As for the no trade, it's easy to say he could have negioated it with any other team but it doesn't seem like any teams really like to do that.  Kobe has the only no-trade clause in his contract and has been the only player with one for years if I am not mistaken.

You guys seem to forget that Shaq was the first choice to be moved mid-season as his conditioning was once again a factor on their regular season at the same time  Kobe was scoring 160 pts in 5 games or whatever it was.  The only thing that could have saved him was winning a championship.  Jerry Buss had his mind made up that he did not want to pay Shaq that huge extension and the fact he tried to check Buss' ego.  Why would they do a sign and trade for another player if they wanted to move from Shaq regardless?  Jerry Buss went on record saying he didn't want to pay that kind of money to Shaq and that prompted the whole 'PAY ME MY F*#@(*$ MONEY' after his dunk in a game.

Well, to this point, no one has asked for a scenario that would have suited Kobe and the Lakers both.  But since it has now happened....

Kobe Bryant to the Indiana Pacers in a sign-and-trade for free agent Al Harrington, Ron Artest, and Reggie Miller.  Miller is at the end of his career, Harrington will have to be signed in a sign-and-trade, and Ron Artest for Kobe seems reasonable.  This leaves a Pacer team with Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal, Fred Jones, James Jones, Jamaal Tinsley, Anthony Johnson, Primoz Brezec (who Indy wanted to keep, but couldn't due to insufficient ability to protect him in the expansion draft - which now is not a problem).  Indy needs to do something in order to keep from losing Harington for nothing.

In this case, the Lakers now have a line-up of Payton, Kareem Rush (under the watchful eye of Reggie Miller), Ron Artest, Karl Malone, and Shaq, with Al Harrington waiting in the wings.  Artest will be watched over by the veterans, and Phil Jackson (who would be re-signed) has a way with head cases.  I like my chances with that line-up in 2005.

The question is how Indiana would approach Miller in selling the deal to him.  He'd be going to play with three sure-fire Hall-of-Famers, and he did go to UCLA, so in a way, it would be a homecoming.

Kobe would be teamed with Jermaine O'Neal, the feature player for a team with a GM of Larry Bird, a top-notch coach in Rick Carlisle, and a reasonable chance of competing, in a basketball-crazy area, albeit a smaller market.

Indiana would get something back for Al Harrington - a top-notch, clutch-time superstar, and would give up an ancient vet, a young guy who they couldn't keep anyway, and Artest...which, to them, really makes the trade "Kobe for Artest."

That's one possibility.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2007, 05:26:16 PM »
Quote
The no trade clause had more to do with him resigning then Shaq leaving.  Reason being?  Kobe couldn't be put in the spot Shaq was if he had the no trade clause.

Couldn't he have just negotiated this aspect with his sign-n-trade team, also?

Not when his wife was telling him she wants to stay in LA to be by her family.

I also don't see how it makes sense even from the Lakers stand point to do a sign and trade then.  Who could they have possibly got to fill his role?   You guys keep talking like its possible but have not brought up a single player, scenario where it would work.   Who at the time even had the cap space to pay Kobe upwards towards 20 million a year?  Who was a better perimeter player coming off that 03-04 season?  As for the no trade, it's easy to say he could have negioated it with any other team but it doesn't seem like any teams really like to do that.  Kobe has the only no-trade clause in his contract and has been the only player with one for years if I am not mistaken.

You guys seem to forget that Shaq was the first choice to be moved mid-season as his conditioning was once again a factor on their regular season at the same time  Kobe was scoring 160 pts in 5 games or whatever it was.  The only thing that could have saved him was winning a championship.  Jerry Buss had his mind made up that he did not want to pay Shaq that huge extension and the fact he tried to check Buss' ego.  Why would they do a sign and trade for another player if they wanted to move from Shaq regardless?  Jerry Buss went on record saying he didn't want to pay that kind of money to Shaq and that prompted the whole 'PAY ME MY F*#@(*$ MONEY' after his dunk in a game.

Well, to this point, no one has asked for a scenario that would have suited Kobe and the Lakers both.  But since it has now happened....

Kobe Bryant to the Indiana Pacers in a sign-and-trade for free agent Al Harrington, Ron Artest, and Reggie Miller.  Miller is at the end of his career, Harrington will have to be signed in a sign-and-trade, and Ron Artest for Kobe seems reasonable.  This leaves a Pacer team with Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal, Fred Jones, James Jones, Jamaal Tinsley, Anthony Johnson, Primoz Brezec (who Indy wanted to keep, but couldn't due to insufficient ability to protect him in the expansion draft - which now is not a problem).  Indy needs to do something in order to keep from losing Harington for nothing.

In this case, the Lakers now have a line-up of Payton, Kareem Rush (under the watchful eye of Reggie Miller), Ron Artest, Karl Malone, and Shaq, with Al Harrington waiting in the wings.  Artest will be watched over by the veterans, and Phil Jackson (who would be re-signed) has a way with head cases.  I like my chances with that line-up in 2005.

The question is how Indiana would approach Miller in selling the deal to him.  He'd be going to play with three sure-fire Hall-of-Famers, and he did go to UCLA, so in a way, it would be a homecoming.

Kobe would be teamed with Jermaine O'Neal, the feature player for a team with a GM of Larry Bird, a top-notch coach in Rick Carlisle, and a reasonable chance of competing, in a basketball-crazy area, albeit a smaller market.

Indiana would get something back for Al Harrington - a top-notch, clutch-time superstar, and would give up an ancient vet, a young guy who they couldn't keep anyway, and Artest...which, to them, really makes the trade "Kobe for Artest."

That's one possibility.

One year left with Reggie Miller and trading for a guy who came off a year long suspension?!  Ack.  That line up would be worse then Miami's current 0-3 line up in the long run.  The keeping of Kobe and the ditching of Shaq was to get the team younger.  That trade may have looked half way decent for 05 but 06 and 07? No way.  The Lakers would have been worse and less interesting to watch with that trade IMO.

Besides...that doesn't work for the simple fact you can't live in Southern California then go to Indiana.  He would have hung himself with corn stalks.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:29:04 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2007, 07:45:09 PM »
Also on the chance he might reup after the title.

YAWN

95
Yeah it was better to do the .500 Dynasty.
Wild Blue YAWNder 1,478,866

Back for a recap.

That's referring to the team receiving Kobe, of did you not post what you meant?

YAWN

94
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2007, 12:18:08 AM »
Quote
The no trade clause had more to do with him resigning then Shaq leaving.  Reason being?  Kobe couldn't be put in the spot Shaq was if he had the no trade clause.

Couldn't he have just negotiated this aspect with his sign-n-trade team, also?

Not when his wife was telling him she wants to stay in LA to be by her family.

I also don't see how it makes sense even from the Lakers stand point to do a sign and trade then.  Who could they have possibly got to fill his role?   You guys keep talking like its possible but have not brought up a single player, scenario where it would work.   Who at the time even had the cap space to pay Kobe upwards towards 20 million a year?  Who was a better perimeter player coming off that 03-04 season?  As for the no trade, it's easy to say he could have negioated it with any other team but it doesn't seem like any teams really like to do that.  Kobe has the only no-trade clause in his contract and has been the only player with one for years if I am not mistaken.

You guys seem to forget that Shaq was the first choice to be moved mid-season as his conditioning was once again a factor on their regular season at the same time  Kobe was scoring 160 pts in 5 games or whatever it was.  The only thing that could have saved him was winning a championship.  Jerry Buss had his mind made up that he did not want to pay Shaq that huge extension and the fact he tried to check Buss' ego.  Why would they do a sign and trade for another player if they wanted to move from Shaq regardless?  Jerry Buss went on record saying he didn't want to pay that kind of money to Shaq and that prompted the whole 'PAY ME MY F*#@(*$ MONEY' after his dunk in a game.

Well, to this point, no one has asked for a scenario that would have suited Kobe and the Lakers both.  But since it has now happened....

Kobe Bryant to the Indiana Pacers in a sign-and-trade for free agent Al Harrington, Ron Artest, and Reggie Miller.  Miller is at the end of his career, Harrington will have to be signed in a sign-and-trade, and Ron Artest for Kobe seems reasonable.  This leaves a Pacer team with Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal, Fred Jones, James Jones, Jamaal Tinsley, Anthony Johnson, Primoz Brezec (who Indy wanted to keep, but couldn't due to insufficient ability to protect him in the expansion draft - which now is not a problem).  Indy needs to do something in order to keep from losing Harington for nothing.

In this case, the Lakers now have a line-up of Payton, Kareem Rush (under the watchful eye of Reggie Miller), Ron Artest, Karl Malone, and Shaq, with Al Harrington waiting in the wings.  Artest will be watched over by the veterans, and Phil Jackson (who would be re-signed) has a way with head cases.  I like my chances with that line-up in 2005.

The question is how Indiana would approach Miller in selling the deal to him.  He'd be going to play with three sure-fire Hall-of-Famers, and he did go to UCLA, so in a way, it would be a homecoming.

Kobe would be teamed with Jermaine O'Neal, the feature player for a team with a GM of Larry Bird, a top-notch coach in Rick Carlisle, and a reasonable chance of competing, in a basketball-crazy area, albeit a smaller market.

Indiana would get something back for Al Harrington - a top-notch, clutch-time superstar, and would give up an ancient vet, a young guy who they couldn't keep anyway, and Artest...which, to them, really makes the trade "Kobe for Artest."

That's one possibility.

One year left with Reggie Miller and trading for a guy who came off a year long suspension?!  Ack.  That line up would be worse then Miami's current 0-3 line up in the long run.  The keeping of Kobe and the ditching of Shaq was to get the team younger.  That trade may have looked half way decent for 05 but 06 and 07? No way.  The Lakers would have been worse and less interesting to watch with that trade IMO.

Besides...that doesn't work for the simple fact you can't live in Southern California then go to Indiana.  He would have hung himself with corn stalks.

Try again.  At this point, the Malice at the Palace hadn't occurred yet.  You'd have gotten Harrington and Artest, plus Miller to season Rush.

The Lakers today would have a line-up of O'Neal, Artest, Rush, and Harrington and Fisher.  That ain't bad.
Joe

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Midseason trades and Championships
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2007, 10:07:07 AM »
Try again.  At this point, the Malice at the Palace hadn't occurred yet.  You'd have gotten Harrington and Artest, plus Miller to season Rush.

The Lakers today would have a line-up of O'Neal, Artest, Rush, and Harrington and Fisher.  That ain't bad.

Where the hell were you that summer.  Next time get off your arse and pick up the phone and call Kupchak!
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"