OT - Uber-Sci-Fi-Geek discussion. Who wins in a fight?

[WayOutWest]

I was having a discussion about the effectiveness of battleships since WWI with a limey bastard.  The subject turned to displacement and of course the Yamato and her sister ships came up.  Someone else chimed in about the second biggest battleships ever were American and I said "nope, that distinction goes to the Russians".  Everybody was like "WHAT" (chicken neck black woman move and everything).  I said since the guys said "EVER" then the Russians built the second biggest battleships "eva", post WWII of course.  Then someone said if we were going to straddle "eras" then we might as well bring nuke powered battleships and "Star Wars".  To which I said "Star Wars?  Why Star Wars, Star Trek would kick their ass!".  IT WAS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (black chick taking off her picking rings and chains getting ready for a throw down!).

We went back and forth a little bit with every Sci-Fi contender we could think of, excluding cartoons, and came down to two groups:  contenders with sheilds and contenders without shields.  Fair or not we excluded all non-shield contenders, Battlestar Galactica, Serenity and Babylon 5, because they can't defend themselves.  Babylon 5 did have some ships with shields if I can remember, so they straddle IMO plus nobody else knew much about that show.  Actually, there wasn't anyone else who knew much beyond Star Trek and Star Wars.  I know Star Trek guys stated how much energy their weapons and sheilds are capable of, Mega or Tera Joules, but I can't think of anyone else who did that so getting technical may or may not be possible unless you scower the internet for tech data but this I'd prefer more of a "off the top of your head" discussion (if anyone dares the shame of participating).  We also didn't include certain movies that didn't have sequels (5th Element, Wing Commander or Independence Day), nor crappy series (Andromeda, V, Space Above and Beyond and Earth - Final Conflic).  Also excluded out-dated stuff like Space 1999 and Buck Rogers.

So......

IMO Stargate SG-1 would take the cake with the Ori and Asgard ships leading the charge.  Ships without shields would get instantly wiped out using only "armor".  Heck, the original Yamato could take out a space ship that only used armor if it would get close enough.   Don't even get me started on the Wave Motion Gun.  Anyway, Star Wars, Star Trek and some Babylon ships had shields as well but those shields proved to be useless when ships rammed into each other, as was shown in several episodes and movies.  The Ori and Asgard, including the Asgard upgraded Earth ship, would withstand a HUGE ship ramming them then harmlessly being destroyed, like the jet fighter vs mothership in Independence Day. 

For that reason I go with Stargate SG-1.

[rickortreat]

Oh!

You are Soooo right about SG-1 outclassing the others.  The G'ould Ships had everything the enterprise had and more- glifers. They would take out the Battle Star galactica fleet in a micron! And, don't forget about the replicators, and the weapons of the ancients!  In the end, there was only one weapon in the Universe that could destroy the replicators, who eventually overcame every other obstacle in their path.

Wraith ships would blow away most of the others.  Gate jumpers are as nasty as any battle cruiser in the galaxy- with a cloaking device (and an optional time-travel unit).

Then again, what are ships compared with the power of the Ascended?

[Skandery]

OH, Uh-un, no you just did-ent.  <snaps fingers and waggles neck>

It's on your Geekness!

Why don't I bring some Babylon 5 knowledge into this discussion.  While true that most of the races didn't have shields, the older races of the series--i.e. The Vorlons and The Shadows did have advanced Organic Technology.  Their ships were alive with Hulls that learned and adapted to the various laser and ballistic weaponized energy.  Shadows (battlecrab) used humans has central processing computers for their ships where the human and ship would literally become one entity.  The main laser on a Battlecrab pretty much cut through anything like a hot knife through butter except a Vorlon ship's Hull.  It released an organic sphere from its core that would split into like 50 mini shadow fighters.  A Vorlon's main laser also was equally destructive.  Not to mention the fact that each race had access to Planet Destroyers.  The Vorlons Planet Destroyer was about 4 miles in length and could built up sufficient energy to destroy an M-class planet, think "Deathstar" except that the Vorlons had a FLEET OF THEM!!  The Shadows had an organic cloud that shrouded a planet and released millions of missiles that would burrow to the planet core destroying it from the inside out. 

So between Asgard, Federation, or Galactic Empire:  I think I'll take my chances with either the Vorlons or Shadows. 

 
P.S. On a sidenote I'm actually going through and watching Stargate (I'm at beginning of Season 4) and must have not gotten to the really powerful ships.  I mean those Gou'a'ould pyramid things could get destroyed by some human C4 -- WEAK!!     

[westkoast]

I suddenly do not feel like the nerdiest guy on this board anymore, sweet deal!

[WayOutWest]

So between Asgard, Federation, or Galactic Empire:  I think I'll take my chances with either the Vorlons or Shadows. 

The ancient races in Babylon 5 were about the same level as the Vorlon and Shadows, since the story line went that those two races hung back to see how the new races came along.  A few other races hung out and they were not any more powerful than the Vorlon and Shadows.  I know those combo Mimbari/Vorlon ships had shields as well BUT again, a ship ramming them would destroy them.  That was not possible with the Ori so I think they would have no problem wipping out any race from Babylon 5.

P.S. On a sidenote I'm actually going through and watching Stargate (I'm at beginning of Season 4) and must have not gotten to the really powerful ships.  I mean those Gou'a'ould pyramid things could get destroyed by some human C4 -- WEAK!!     

The only reason C4 worked was becuase they got it INSIDE the ship, that's not as WEAK as blowing up a fleet of Shadow ships just because they are on the ground by a bunch of weenies with fairy hair styles.  BTW, that was my favorite episode of B5, when Molari handed the Shadows their arse!

[Skandery]

The ancient races in Babylon 5 were about the same level as the Vorlon and Shadows, since the story line went that those two races hung back to see how the new races came along.  A few other races hung out and they were not any more powerful than the Vorlon and Shadows.

I know.  I used ancient races as a broad term for the people who don't know the show than used Vorlons and Shadows as my example because I think they're the most powerful of those races.

The only reason C4 worked was becuase they got it INSIDE the ship, that's not as WEAK as blowing up a fleet of Shadow ships just because they are on the ground by a bunch of weenies with fairy hair styles.

Londo had to blow up the entire Island--its not as if he set off some fireworks on the runway or something.

BTW, that was my favorite episode of B5, when Molari handed the Shadows their arse!

"Into The Fire" -- I love that episode, too.
 

[WayOutWest]

Londo had to blow up the entire Island--its not as if he set off some fireworks on the runway or something.

An ENTIRE island?  Phssss.......Entire plantets have been destoyed in an effort to destroy a single Ori ship with no effect.  Hallowed are the Ori!

[jn]

Hmmm...you guys have me way outclassed on the sci-fi nerd part.  I guess my nerd credentials come in the fact that I knew Ori and Asgard are taken straight from Norse mythology.  Ori being a dwarf who's name was later used for one of the dwarves accompanying Bilbo in The Hobbit.  Asgard being the home of the "good" gods.  Asgard's walls having been built by a giant who disguised himself and challenged the gods to take a wife from among the goddesses (Freyja, if I remember correctly) if he, with the help of his horse, could build the walls in a certain time.   Not realizing who they made the bargain with, the gods were forced to have trickster god Loki disguise himself as a female horse in heat to distract the giant's helper horse. 

So there.

[WayOutWest]

Hmmm...you guys have me way outclassed on the sci-fi nerd part.  I guess my nerd credentials come in the fact that I knew Ori and Asgard are taken straight from Norse mythology.  Ori being a dwarf who's name was later used for one of the dwarves accompanying Bilbo in The Hobbit.  Asgard being the home of the "good" gods.  Asgard's walls having been built by a giant who disguised himself and challenged the gods to take a wife from among the goddesses (Freyja, if I remember correctly) if he, with the help of his horse, could build the walls in a certain time.   Not realizing who they made the bargain with, the gods were forced to have trickster god Loki disguise himself as a female horse in heat to distract the giant's helper horse. 

So there.

Hmmmmm.......I guess "geek" does not apply to you based on your post.  Perhaps "dork" or "nerd".....

[jn]

True WOW.  I do enjoy sci-fi but you guys definitely have me beat when it comes to the aforementioned shows.

We may need to get separate thread going on other sci-fi film recommendations.

[WayOutWest]

True WOW.  I do enjoy sci-fi but you guys definitely have me beat when it comes to the aforementioned shows.

We may need to get separate thread going on other sci-fi film recommendations.

Battlestar Galactica on Sci-Fi.  CASE CLOSED!

[Derek Bodner]

this thread is more nerd than geek.

[rickortreat]

I think SG-1 is the greatest Sci-Fi show ever.  The gate itself is the ideal platform for a show dealing with the possibilities of other species and civilizations.  The depth of detail in the show and the writing, which attempts to tie our history to the ancient civilization that allegedly spawned us.

It's like our ancestors were from a place far, far, away, a long time ago....

What other sci fi show deals with religion from a human perspective like SG1, or how it deals with politics.  Technology, trade between civilizations at different levels of advancement.  The difficulty in spreading the benefits of advanced societies to the less developed. 

Battle Star Gallactica is more like a soap opera in space.  It's more about exposing human weakness and frailty while they live under relentless pressure, and how they manage to limp along.  It's not about human triumph like SG-1!

[WayOutWest]

I think SG-1 is the greatest Sci-Fi show ever.  The gate itself is the ideal platform for a show dealing with the possibilities of other species and civilizations.  The depth of detail in the show and the writing, which attempts to tie our history to the ancient civilization that allegedly spawned us.

It's like our ancestors were from a place far, far, away, a long time ago....

What other sci fi show deals with religion from a human perspective like SG1, or how it deals with politics.  Technology, trade between civilizations at different levels of advancement.  The difficulty in spreading the benefits of advanced societies to the less developed. 

Battle Star Gallactica is more like a soap opera in space.  It's more about exposing human weakness and frailty while they live under relentless pressure, and how they manage to limp along.  It's not about human triumph like SG-1!

IMO the new Battlestar Galactica is the greatest Sci-Fi show to date.  The New Caprica arc was amazing.  Humans believing in multiple gods being oppressed by the Cylons and their one god.  Humans suicide bombing robots, humans selling out to the cylons then being subjected to payback.  Most realistic and intricate battle scenes I have ever scene since Star Wars III.

Stargate does have alot going for it but the SFX are clearly a notch below Battlestar Galactica and Star Wars II & III.  I do like all the various plot lines and things you mentioned but BSG storylines are the best ever.  Not knowing who is or is not a cylon, the trippy prophecies and religious agenda of the cylons, it rules.