Why choose to abide by something that means nothing. Your self-contradicting again.
What's right means something to me! Everything anyone does in life is through the exercise of their free will. I can get by without taking from other people, and I would love to the see the world ordered so honest people can flourish. It's a pipe dream. People are too stupid to realize that they can live better by working together, rather than trying to exploit each other.
Throughout many of your points, it seems you have a very defeatist, pessimistic view of the world. Maybe that goes with being a Sixers fan. Joking. You say that you'd love to see the world ordered so honest people can flourish. Well, while I don't believe that we have arrived at the ideal, we are further along today than we were 500 years ago, 1000 years, 2000 years, etc. Which is why the lofty aspirations that I hold dear I truly believe will eventually be reached through the force of history and the human capacity to learn from it. Maybe you think I give humanity too much credit, but isn't the life of someone occupying the median on the scale of power and wealth living much better today than they did during feudal/monarchist regimes 500 years ago. Some people give credit to technology, some to science, some to religious tenants, some to secular philosophies, I agree with those and also give credit to humanity's collective conscience maturing. So while you might think its a pipe dream and have given up all hope, I maintain that all of us have a duty to strive towards the ideal. Righteousness will overcome greed. Liberty will overcome hegemony. Lawfulness will overcome violence. Eventually. I hope.
They all think that way. You should be scared.
And they're empowered by paranoid pragmatists. No, they took power long ago by bribing those suceptable. The federal reserve act of 1913 gave the power to create money to a private entity- it is illegal and unconstitutional. Brown Brothers Harriman is one of the owners of the Fed- the Bush's bank. You shouldn't be surpised that two of them have become President. Both Bush and Kerry were Skull and Bonesman at Yale. We don't live in a democracy anymore. You have no idea of what is really going on!
Conspiracy rantings aside. The fearful and the paranoid are the ones most susceptible to empowering the power-hungry. Hitler took power during an economic crisis. The Bush doctrine of pre-emption has been given legality from Congress under
fear for national security. One thing that remains constant is that rule by opression of any form never lasts. World leaders have slowly learned this fact and the reason why while, militarily, Superpowers can annex the rest of the world, they refrain from doing so.
Ah . . . .Rule by the Rich and the Mercenary. Better than Democracy you think?
Not better, just the way it is!
I disagree, if this were true, how did a poor boy from a single parent home in Arkansas become President of the United States. Democracy isn't an illusion but it is what those in power in all Totalitarian regimes fear the most. Sadly when it fits our geo-political and economic goals, American sides with the dictator, not the people. Like I said, we should be setting a greater example.
Oh, they'll last as long as the Imperialists want them to. Then again Imperialist Powers have been known to change throughout the course of history.
Hey! That sounds like me!
Not really since I'm saying that borders should be enforced not by the mighty but rather the lawful--as it pertains to a code of ethics and morality. Going back to my analogy, if an advanced Alien species enforced new borders around the United States--it wouldn't make them right because they happen to have the might.
Yes I know . . . by tyrants who believed in "Survival of the Fittest".
Wrong! By neighboring tribes who wanted the land. The Romans, the Huns, the Tatars, The English, The Russians, The United States (although we are far more benign in comparison.
So then, how dangerous for you when a neighboring tribe takes your land should they have greater forces. These philosophies such as "Survival of the Fittest", rooted in violence, are archaic since it trivializes questions of right and wrong to those of strong and weak.
You're touting "Survival of the Fittest" over the "Rule of Law" and calling me unrealistic. The Law should protect the weak--your cruel and violent ideology does not.
What are you on Crack? Law protecting the weak!? No, it protects men of wealth and property. And don't confuse my understanding with ideology. I'm just telling you the way it is. You are as dense as a doorknob, with no understanding of history, economics, law or culture.
If a wealthier man than yourself murders you, does the Law protect him from prosecution? It rightly should not and does not. Justice is blind--or at least should be. Over the years and across many struggles (Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, etc.), it has become more and more blind. While it still takes a peak, it remains our best measure of righteousness. Scaled up to societies and communities (like in Palestine/Israel), the same principles hold.
So wiping them out should be our foreign policy goal?
That depends on them. If they are willing to live in peace then that's fine by me. They keep flying planes into buildings, and one of two things will happen: The intelligent muslims will realize that tolerance of these actions is wearing thin. We're already at War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran will probably be next. Osama is a Saudi. As long as the Gulf States sell us oil we're placated. As soon as that changes, the arabs will be systematically enslaved. Palestine is being split in two. Israel will work with Fatah and allow autonomy in the West Bank. If Hamas keeps attacking from Gaza, they will be wiped out.
In my worldview, genocide is never an option. 20 extremist fundamentalists flew planes into buildings, you don't wipe out an entire population. If I may veer off a bit: had those 20 guys flown 20 Bombers and bombed New York off the map, would that make you more or less sympathetic with their tactics? Personally I find ALL forms of violence outdated, uncivilized, and unnecessarily costly. You say we're at War in Iraq and Afghanistan, let's ponder some of the outcomes. The Pakistan-Afganistan border has become a hotbed for worldwide terrorist networks and Al-Quaida is probably stronger now than at any time previous. Iraq has become so destabilized and borders so unsecure that it has become a sesspool of terrorist activity and resistance to a point never before seen in a Middle Eastern country. In fact should US Forces pull out, it would undoubtedly create a power vacuum more than likely to be filled by Iran's Shia Gov't that many Western Policymakers consider to be the most Fundamentalist Administration in existence today. Have we truly gotten what we've wanted out of these Wars?
It doesn't seem like they're doing a good job of this submission thing.
Do you always take things out of context to make your points? Your intellectual dishonesty is amazing. That was about the Ottomans, not the Israel's!
Actually I was talking about the Palestinians, so before questioning my intellectual honesty, work on reading comprehension. But since you were talking about the Ottoman's, the empire crumbled under its own dead weight after the Industrial Revolution passed it by, no one "beat it into submission".
If this is true, WHY are they still there. Billions of dollars from the US in military aid, tanks, air force, nuclear weapons to Israel and they're still there. 60 years of being slaughtered and they're still there calling the land they live on Palestine, calling themselves Palestinians. How is it possible to do that without culture and cohesiveness?
Because the rest of the world feels sorry for them, and the Jews are on a guilt trip and unwilling to wipe them out. They know what it's like to be repressed. Unlike the Palestinians, they are civilized and productive. Name one Arab country that produces anything by their own sweat? All they do is pump oil and invest their money in markets, they don't even spread the wealth among their people, which is why Saudi Arabia is filled with poor, stupid people dependent on the Royals. And, also why Bin Laden hates us.
On one hand you lecture me on the way the world works and on the other you tell me how everyone feels sorry for and protects those poor Palestinians. Which is it? Its easy to be civilized and productive when you are the beneficiary of billions of dollars in Foreign Aid. Name one Arab country, sure,
Tunisia: Textiles, Agricultural Goods, Mechanical Goods, and Phosphates <source: CIA World Factbook>.
Its one thousand four hundred and twenty years old, who stated otherwise?
You did with your quote about their being descended from the semetic peoples of the Filistines
Here is the direct quote, "Palestinians descend from Semitic peoples that have resided in Easter Mediterranean coast since the Kingdom of Filistine established 3,000 years ago." Nowhere in there did I state they were Muslim the entire time. Reading comprehension, Rick.
Killing is fine as long as you do it for the right reasons? I disagree.
The only justified killing is in self defense.
The militant Palestinian refugee would say he is defending himself and his homeland. I won't accept it as justification for killing from him or you.
You consider quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq victories? As an American, I disagree.
Vietnam wasn't a war for winning, it was a war to benefit the military industrial complex, which is doing quite well. War is a profitable business and the ultimate expression of abusing the American people. Iraq is the same, but we're also there for the ultimate strategic asset: oil. It is no accident that Bush, an oil man went in there!
I consider World War II a greater enabler of the Military Industrial complex. I also don't consider the sector's unbridled growth in power and wealth a *good* thing for the nation, neither did President Dwight Eisenhower. I recommend you watch a documentary entitled, "Why We Fight". Additionally, if we're in Iraq for oil, why aren't I seeing the benefits--Gasoline prices have been steadily on the rise for the last 5 years. I agree its helping Bush the oil man, but it isn't helping John Q. Citizen.
Yes. The difference between Law and Survival of the Fittest.
There's nothing fit about killing Fatah leaders and intimidating voters like Hamas did in Gaza! They want to win at any cost, which is why they will loose!
Again, this doesn't dispute the point that these people have all been told by their recruiters how the world works, as you like to put it. The thugs in Hamas who recruit the ever-growing disheartened youth probably fill their heads with archaic, garbage doctrines like "Survival of the Fittest" and "Might Makes Right" and a healthy dose of "Jihad against Infidels"--also an archaic, garbage doctrine that is twisted and misinterpreted. Until we collectively work to rise above these doctrines of violence, blood will continue to call out for blood.
You think they'd be fighting and dying if doing those other things was an option? Wake up and smell the napalm, Rick.
Idiot! There's nothing stopping them from working hard and building a society. They could be at peace and independent already if they could control themselves. Don't make excuses for morons
.
Stop calling me an idiot when your the one that doesn't know the facts:
The West Bank - the larger of the two areas under the Palestinian Authority (PA) - has experienced a general decline in economic conditions since the second intifadah began in September 2000. The downturn has been largely the result of Israeli closure policies - the imposition of border closures in response to security incidents in Israel - which disrupted labor and trading relationships. In 2001, and even more severely in 2002, Israeli military measures in PA areas resulted in the destruction of capital, the disruption of administrative structures, and widespread business closures. International aid of at least $1.14 billion to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 2004 prevented the complete collapse of the economy and allowed some reforms in the government's financial operations. In 2005, high unemployment and limited trade opportunities - due to continued closures both within the West Bank and externally - stymied growth. Israel's and the international community's financial embargo of the PA since HAMAS took office in March 2006 has interrupted the provision of PA social services and the payment of PA salaries.The Second intifadha was precipitated by a political move by then Prime Minister candidate Ariel Sharone. When the violence culminated in his election (which was the point), he further instigated more violence by illegaly setting up numerous settlements within Palestinan land against the Oslo Accords agreed upon by Israel. 46% of the population in the West Bank is under the poverty line and Unemployment is 20%. The harsh economic reality coupled with a powerless central government repeatedly undermined by Israeli military actions don't exactly make the area ripe for opportunity. These aren't excuses, they're FACTS!
I agree so I wonder why governments still think they can take away people's land and freedom and it won't beget a violent reprisal.
Because it keeps working!
It sure does, violence erupts everytime.
This doesn't diminish the point that "Might Makes Right", "Survival of the Fittest", "The Way of the Gun" are the principles these people use to commit these atrocities. The same principles you've constructed you're pragmatic ideology around.
It's not an ideology. It is the way of the world. Do you really disagree with that! This is nature's way of rewarding those who employ their brains and ability in conquest. America makes war better than any country ever in the history of the world. And you benefit from it!
I disagree. I benefit from the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution that protects my basic freedoms. The value of a society is not reflective of its ability to make war. But I am curious, in what ways has War benefitted you?
The concept that you have had a hard time understanding, Rick, is that its not about belief systems, its about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Peace and harmony is fostered through mutual respect of the Law of the land legislated so that it reflects the will of the people who share the land. If the National Government can do it for a nation, an International Government can do it for the World. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is nothing more than a dispute amongst nations, which should be adjudicated and resolved by the International form of Government. The Nations who comprise this body should respect its law enough to enforce the Resolutions--not fall victim to their own selfish, petty, self-interest.
There is no world government and there never will be such a thing. People are too selfish and greedy to allow it. Any world government will be run by the same type of people that have taken over the US. It will never be about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's propaganda you've fallen for, hook line and sinker. It's what they tell people like you so you can feel good about your country, even when it starts a pre-emptive war!
There was a time when Europe was a collection of warring factions and noble families squabbling over territory--now they've joined a Union of mutual economic benefit. There was a time when there was 13 colonies, they formed the United States. There was a time when a League of Nations was laughable and insane--we now have a United Nations. Trust me, Rick, its going to happen, not in your lifetime or my lifetime, but someday. When all realize we have more to gain from cooperation and welfare than we do from war and violence.
If you truly believe this and are in the majority than I'm afraid it will always be America's destiny to be drawn into these meaningless conflicts that do nothing but cost money, cost life, and further alienate the International community. I think America's socio-economic system is the best in the world and should be the country that sets the example of how to foster it on an International scale, not the divisive antagonist that too often its the played the part of.
The America that the founding father's intended was the best in the world. There is no such thing as free trade, honest money, or non-obtrusive government here. The biggest employer in the US is the US Government. It can only survive by gross manipulation and war.
You should spend more time observing what is really going on, rather than spouting the drivel that you do. You clearly have the ability to analyze a basketball history. Time would be better spent understanding the world and the way of it. Opposition makes people and nations stronger, if it doesn't kill them. But it takes vision and understanding of correct principals to make it last. You live in a thug nation. We are the gangsters of the world.
You have a narrow-minded, primeval, way of looking at the world around you. I don't think advancement of humanity is fostered through conflict, but rather through freedom and education. You accuse me of not understanding the world yet your arguments are filled with factual errors and broad judgement statements based on very limited understanding of world politics. You simplify the conflict into a dichotomous struggle between extreme worldviews and then choose sides comletely ignoring the fact that most people reside in the moderate spectrum. You incorrectly call yourself a pragmatist. The definition of Pragmatism is a philosophical system that stresses practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value. If War results in the practical consequences of death, destruction, and suffering, do you benefit. Some people consider the practical consequences of the U.S. partiality towards Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be terrorist acts like 9/11--as a Pragmatist do you consider that sacrifice worth it--somehow I would doubt it.
Not all people in this world are evil, Rick. Some are misguided, some uneducated, but most of us are striving for something better. Better than simply accepting the so-called "way the world works."
