Lakers what will you give for JOneal?

[Reality]

Do you even want him?

You're not going to hornsnagle Bird.  Altho Ron Testy made equal trade value impossible.
It seems like it's back to square 1 in any talks as Bynum+ is a must from Pacers point of view.  Do you want to roll with JOneal, Kobester and Odom now or wait for Bynums development?

Some combo of
Bynum
Kwame
Odom
Cook
draft pics.

Your competition after I've consulted with the Spurs is we are willing to go Barrdog and contracts for JOneal.  But we don't like his large contract.

[westkoast]

I'd like to have the trio of Bryant/Odom/O'Neal personally.  I don't know if Indiana is going to want Odom with his large contract.  Kwame Brown is an expiring contract and I would imagine they would want some youth/picks along with Bynum.

Bynum, Kwame, picks is what I'd give up but we are talking about dealing with Larry Bird.  It's in his blood to hate the Lakers and don't forget the Lakers recently kept him from getting a title as a coach in the early 2000s.  I'll wait to see how serious this trade gets in the next few weeks before I get too excited.  I have little faith in the Lakers front office honestly.

[Lurker]

I agree the Lakers would jump at a chance for O'Neal if they can keep Odom.  Kobe/Odom/JO would be a strong team with some of the solid role players the Lakers have.  But Bynum and garbage isn't a fair deal from the Pacers point of view.

However, I have read that Bird will settle for no less than Odom & Bynum...which is too much according to the Lakers.  Although IMO Kupchak should do that deal. 

The Pacers have more leverage in this deal than they did with Artest or Jackson.  O'Neal doesn't have the baggage and even though he has an opt-out next year; will he really walk away from $40+ mil over 2 years?  Even to attempt to win a ring.

[westkoast]

I agree the Lakers would jump at a chance for O'Neal if they can keep Odom.  Kobe/Odom/JO would be a strong team with some of the solid role players the Lakers have.  But Bynum and garbage isn't a fair deal from the Pacers point of view.

However, I have read that Bird will settle for no less than Odom & Bynum...which is too much according to the Lakers.  Although IMO Kupchak should do that deal. 

The Pacers have more leverage in this deal than they did with Artest or Jackson.  O'Neal doesn't have the baggage and even though he has an opt-out next year; will he really walk away from $40+ mil over 2 years?  Even to attempt to win a ring.

You would think they wouldn't want Odom because of his contract and his current/nagging injuries.

The Lakers need to deal a PG btw...they have 5 players on the squad who can play the point (Fish, Cri, The chinese Magic Johnson, Farmar, Sasha).  Not sure what the hell Mitch was thinking.

[Laker Fan]

I don't know, Odom/Bynum is awfully steep for O'Neal, and IMO it would make an EC contender out of the Pacers without giving the Lakers that same luxury, just give them a crybaby forward, sometime center who happens to get along with Kobe, and while that last point is definately valuable given our resident whine dog, it weakens us at the frontcourt, the last place in the world we afford to be weaker.

Bynum or Odom packaged with youth and picks (or Kwame no talent  Brown on them as well) and I'd say we are closer to a realistic trade, but not a 2 for 1, My choice would be keeping Bynum but with Odom's injury proneness I do not believe the Pacers are that stupid.

[Laker Fan]

I am with Koast on this point: the Lakers front office is not inspiring a lot of confidence. I just hope that Kupchak is not so stupid as to do a deal just to say they did a deal, but alas!!! I firmly believe that if we lose Odom and Bynum for O'Neal, that that is EXACTLY what he will have done

[msc]

I've heard the Lakers offered Bynum and Odom but the Pacers want those two AND Walton.  Of course this is all bs sports talk fodder so take it with a grain of salt. 

Although O'Neil has proven to be an injury prone baby, the idea of a lineup with Kobe, Odom and O'Neil is intriguing.  If we could unload Kwame and Bynum for him I think we have enough support guys like Mo Evans, Fish, Turiaf, Walton, Radmonovic and Vujacic to make that a pretty formidable team ... even in the loaded west.  I'd go for it under that scenario, but not for Odom & Bynum and certainly not including Walton.

I concur with LF and 'koast that I don't have a lot of faith in Laker management right now.  Personally, I've always liked Kupchak and don't blame him for this mess, but Kobe bent us over the barrell when he went public and Bird/Walsh as well as every other GM out there knows it. 

[Laker Fan]

If Kupchak went for Odom/Bynum AND Walton, I think Laker fans would practically riot in the streets, yes, even disinterested, uninvolved Laker fans would get that upset. However, methinks, as I have said earlier, even Bynum/Odom is a stretch for O'Neal, certainly not my favortie player in the NBA.

[Lurker]

Odom + Bynum is a stretch but with Kobe pouting and the solid role players I think it would work for the Lakers.  If this would have been done quickly then the Lakers could have looked at a FA like PJ Brown or trading one of their million PGs to Miami for Doleac.  Even without acquiring another big man just telling Kwame to concentrate on defense and rebounding could turn him into a servicable big ala Dampier.  Adding in Walton is over the top. 

Actually after Kobe, I would rate Walton as the next most important piece on the Lakers.  He understands his role (and is happy with it), is an intelligent player and has a solid work ethic.

[westkoast]

I don't want to see Odom go.  IMO he has to be on this squad because he moves the ball so well.  Not to mention he is a heck of a rebounder who can take it coast to coast after pulling one down.   However, *IF* Kupchek did make this move it would be beyond dumb to move Walton as well.  If the Lakers moved both their best passers they will not be nowhere near an efficient offensive squad.  I don't care if they landed KG.   Last year when the Lakers were playing very good ball at the begging of the season a big part of that was  Odom and Walton moving the ball so well.   They were getting a lot of easy hoops for the squad and it was allowing them to spend more of it on the defensive end/get back on the defensive end.

Again though...I don't know anyone who is a basketball fan (not fairweather) that has any kind of faith in the Lakers front office right now.  Kobe was right...they needed Jerry West to come back to have our faith restored.

[ziggy]

Jermaine makes $19.2 million next year.  To get him the Lakers need to give up at a minimum $14.5 million in salary.

Lamar Odom   13,302,516
Kwame Brown   9,075,000
Vladimir Radmanovic   5,632,200
Luke Walton   3,960,396
Brian Cook   3,500,000
Andrew Bynum    2,172,000
Sasha Vujacic   1,756,952
Maurice Evans   1,740,000
Javaris Crittenton   1,285,200


Walton and Cook are Base Year players making them very very hard to include in the deal.

Odom and Bynum is $15.5 so it works
Brown and Bynum is $11.247 so it doesn't work

So to do Brown and Bynum, and not Odom then you need to add players
Brown, Radman, and Bynum is $16.879 so it works
Brown, Bynum, Sasha, and Mo Evans is $14.743 so it barely works

So the question then becomes, is Indiana willing to take on Brown (next year only), and Radman (through 2012/13) to get Bynum? Or drop Radman and add Sasha and Mo Evans, and have all the contract except Bynum come of the books after next year?  If not then Odom has to be included.

In my mind based upon all of this trading Jermaine and not adding Odom means you are effectively trading O'Neal for Bynum and a bunch of crap with one contract (Radman) being bad.  That is not a smart deal.  In other words if Odom is not included this deal won't happen.

[westkoast]

Jermaine makes $19.2 million next year.  To get him the Lakers need to give up at a minimum $14.5 million in salary.

Lamar Odom   13,302,516
Kwame Brown   9,075,000
Vladimir Radmanovic   5,632,200
Luke Walton   3,960,396
Brian Cook   3,500,000
Andrew Bynum    2,172,000
Sasha Vujacic   1,756,952
Maurice Evans   1,740,000
Javaris Crittenton   1,285,200


Walton and Cook are Base Year players making them very very hard to include in the deal.

Odom and Bynum is $15.5 so it works
Brown and Bynum is $11.247 so it doesn't work

So to do Brown and Bynum, and not Odom then you need to add players
Brown, Radman, and Bynum is $16.879 so it works
Brown, Bynum, Sasha, and Mo Evans is $14.743 so it barely works

So the question then becomes, is Indiana willing to take on Brown (next year only), and Radman (through 2012/13) to get Bynum? Or drop Radman and add Sasha and Mo Evans, and have all the contract except Bynum come of the books after next year?  If not then Odom has to be included.

In my mind based upon all of this trading Jermaine and not adding Odom means you are effectively trading O'Neal for Bynum and a bunch of crap with one contract (Radman) being bad.  That is not a smart deal.  In other words if Odom is not included this deal won't happen.

On behalf of all Laker fans I would like to offer you Mitch Kupchek's job.  It's obvious you have spent more time thinking through potential trades then he has since he took over the job.

[Reality]

Summary. 
Indy won't take less then Odom and Bynum. 
Lakers won't give both.

I agree with you all and so it's at an impasse once again.  Lakers look like they are gonna go with the same squad.  Altho healthy Kwame, Mihm and a year more experienced SuperByns should make a difference.  Enough of one?  I don't think the Kobster is going to bail because i don't think Buss will trade him.  No matter what.

The only realistic deal i would give you is Parker, Eva and Barrdogs expiring contract in exchange for Kobe and the expiring Jack, whom we would waive.

westkoast I'm starting to think Kupcake is just the whipping boy.  If Baron D, Boozer and others really did want to come over and Buss vetoed it, Buss is really the culprit.  Altho if true Kupcake is just Smithers.

[westkoast]

westkoast I'm starting to think Kupcake is just the whipping boy.  If Baron D, Boozer and others really did want to come over and Buss vetoed it, Buss is really the culprit.  Altho if true Kupcake is just Smithers.

You think so?  I mean if that is the case then what is the point of having a GM?  Does the situation remind anyone else of the Raiders?   I didn't hear Baron say he wanted to come to LA but he was born, raised, and played his entire basketball career prior to the pros in SoCAL so it's not far fetched.  Kidd just said he wanted to go to LA but that wasn't Kupchek's fault.  The Bynum move for Jason Kidd didn't go down because of Buss' son.  That I am pretty sure of.  He wants to be the guy who not only found the next big center in the league but he wants to be the guy who brought the next big center to an organization known for great centers.

I can tell you that Laker fans are starting to turn into mini-Kobe's as far as this off-season is going.    I am tired of waiting for them to make improvements.  They want me to pay 30 bucks for nose bleed seats?   While they started off on a good streak last year they still don't have the players in case people get hurt again which is very possible.  You can't just assume Odom, Brown, and Mihm will not get injured considering what types of injuries they have had last year.

Sorry, I love D-Fish to death, but if that is all they are going to do this off-season then it's an D- on their report card.

[Reality]

Yes, I do not think Kupkake was incompetent enough to turn down Boozer.  Plus Barron was an UFA at the time of the alleged, right? 

If anyone saw the fake "DNG" interview with Shaq, ironically it's spot on.  Lakers have made the choice (barring some movement between now and midseason) to stay with Bynum and lose (relatively lose, by that i mean .500 and 1st round and out) waiting it out as opposed to win with Kobe now.  (Trading Byns future for some right now help in the Kobe window, ie JKidd, Boozer etc.

3 years ago they decided to give up on the now (Shaq) and build with Kobe.  Ironically 3 years later they appear to have given up on that and are gonna just hope Kobe is still in good shape when Byns arrives.  So yeah, they might get a two year window where Byns has arrived and Kobe is still in good shape. Maybe Kobe will be Karl Malonelike and play well into his upper 30s.  Lotta miles tho for starting his NBA career at 19.

My Parker trade is not facetious.  And I don't want to trade him.  Oh you might say I'm just looking for another Spurs title and fulfill your foresight of a Kobe-Manu backcourt.  Well of course i am.  Yet even from a current Laker point of view, they have now botched this so badly that are they really gonna get anyone better for Kobe?  At this point?  As to Barrdog say what you want but he knocks down the treys amoung the best in the league and has an expiring contract.  Oh you'd rather have Radman and 5 more years?  Okay.  Now was that Kupkake or Buss?
 
They seriously need to either
a.  build.  Truly build and Parker is a 2X all star 3 ringer who is still getting better each year at only age 25.
b.  surround Kobe with another star win material now.

They have chosen C.  Hope Kobe stays healthy/"happy*" long enough for Byns to get better.
If Phil does a Zen masterpiece and gets them into Round 2 and beyond with a healthy Kwame, Mihm and Odom, well more power to Buss Jr.  Seems highly unlikely tho in the loaded West.

*happy* unless its just made up espn gossip, Kobsters playing alongside Kidd in Vegas at the pre Oly games has only served to tork Kobe off even more.  He's loving Kidds game.