AC the old fashioned way

[Reality]

Humans with Gods help could figure out so many things.
This probably could have been done all along if not for the greedy corps including the oil and energy pigs.

Ice used to cool buildings
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070724/ap_on_re_us/ice_cooling_summary_box_1

COOL AS ICE: Air conditioning can be very expensive and use a lot of electricity, so some buildings are turning to ice cooling.

HOW IT WORKS: Imagine a fan blowing cool air from a block of ice, only on a larger scale. Water is frozen in huge silver tanks and the cool air emanating from the ice blocks is then piped throughout the building.

THE BENEFITS: Officials say replacing traditional air conditioners with the ice-cooling system in one Manhattan office tower is as good for the environment as taking about 220 cars off the streets.

[rickortreat]

Yeah, so how do they freeze the water, and how is that cheaper than running the air compressor?  Freezers use compressors themselves!

Here's another way- pump the cool water out of your well and into a radiator type unit and blow air through that.  The only cost is for the pump and the electricity to run it and the fan.

The real problem is how can we produce enough electricity cheaply enough to supply our needs.  We cannot continue to rely on a finite resource like oil indefinitely.  If we do, when we run out society will collapse!  Food riots and the like would become quite common.

We should be investing more in wind- high energy costs to start with to manufacture and install- but you get it back in time.  Same with water- hydropower is also expensive to start with, but pays back with plenty of energy.

Greed is in attempting to centralize power production. It only makes sense for you if the Electric company can provide it to you cheaper than you can make it yourself.  For most, being on the grid is a good deal. 

[Reality]

Yeah, so how do they freeze the water, and how is that cheaper than running the air compressor?  Freezers use compressors themselves! 

Dammit rt I'm a marketing director and psychotherapist to the Laker community, not an air conditioning engineer!

[rickortreat]

Rotfl!

I'm not an engineer either, I just pretend on the internet!

[westkoast]

Yeah, so how do they freeze the water, and how is that cheaper than running the air compressor?  Freezers use compressors themselves! 

Dammit rt I'm a marketing director and psychotherapist to the Laker community, not an air conditioning engineer!

A horrible one at that    Hopefully your marketing skills are much better.

[WayOutWest]

FYI,

Hydorgen fuel cells, don't require fossil fuels like every other form of "alternative" engery.

Corn is a good way to go as well.

[rickortreat]

Where do they get the hydrogen from?  It costs a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen from what it is bonded too.  All the fuel sell does is recombine the hydrogen.  You could do that with an internal combustion engine too- just have to change the valve timing.

[WayOutWest]

Where do they get the hydrogen from?  It costs a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen from what it is bonded too.  All the fuel sell does is recombine the hydrogen.  You could do that with an internal combustion engine too- just have to change the valve timing.

A hydrogen fuel cell engine is an entirely different world, you mix hydrogen and water to create electricity and the by-product is water.  I have no idea what you are refferring too in regards to "changing the vavle timing".

The trick is producing the hydrogen from a non-fossil fuel based system, you need electricity to seperate the hydrogen from water and you are right it's expensive but that is changing.  Two independent sources have created methods to produce hydrogen at a fraction of the current cost.  Still, despite the expense, the point is producing an "alternative fuel" without having to STILL rely on fossil fuels.  Right now the biggest production method of electricity needed to produce hydrogen is burning coal or other fossil fuels.  Your other options for creating hydrogen are nuclear power, hydroelectric dams, solar cells, wind turbines, geothermal power, wave and tidal power  and co-gen plant.

[Reality]

Where do they get the hydrogen from?  It costs a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen from what it is bonded too.  All the fuel sell does is recombine the hydrogen. 

WOW

Hydorgen fuel cells, don't require fossil fuels like every other form of "alternative" engery.

Movie Who Killed The Electric Car had some data on hydrogen.  WOW with their stats they exposed it's nothing more then a political scam by the oil pigs to keep gas and oil going.  In fact they thoroughtly exposed the head  of CARB who was obviously a big oil suck up, he spearheaded the veto to kill the elec car and even before leaving CARB was hugely invested in hydrogen.  Hydrogen is at least 20 years away.  

Granted, elec cars would run off elec potentially produced by polluting elec plants.  However they provided the stats on how much hot gasses would be eliminated right now bottom line.  It was staggering.  Elec cars now would be a huge help to pollution probs.

Personally i think solar tech has been available for years, it's killed off by the demons in control.

[rickortreat]

I read the article about using ICE for air-conditioning.  The trick is that they are creating the ICE at night, and using it during the day- sort of like "storing" the cool .  It makes sense, but requires an enormous investment in infrastructure.

The first law you have to remember in energy production is that nothing comes for free.  The second is that electricity is hard to store for use later- there is promise in systems that convert the electrical energy into physical energy like compressed air, or elevated water.

Water is made by combining Oxygen and Hydrogen, which together make H20.  Water is abundant, but free hydrogen is not.  Separating Hydrogen from water is energy intensive.  Understand that free hydrogen is a means of storing energy in a chemical form- that is all that it is.

During WW2 the germans, who were suffering from a shortage of petroleum. Developed synthetic fuels and also hydrogen cars.  They would pump oxygen and hydrogen into a cylinder and ignite it.  The gases turn into a liquid- which means it condenses and becomes a smaller volume- the opposite of a gasoline ignition.  The valves need to be shut so the vacuum can suck the piston to the top thus moving the crankshaft.  This is an old technology, and the same problems remain- how do you separate the oxygen from the hydrogen cheaply?  Answer- you can't!

Storage isn't really a problem. Creating enough electrity to use hydrogen as energy storage on a mass scale- a VERY BIG problem.

IMO, using compressed air is a much more cost-effective method, than trying to  separate water. And, with compressed air there is no pollution at all!