The other half of the Rashard sign & trade

[Lurker]

The Sonics used the $8 million trade exception they got in the Lewis sign & trade to get Kurt Thomas and Phoenix's 2008 & 2010 first rounders.  Next year's pick might not be that good but can Nash hold up 3 more years to keep the 2010 pick out of the lottery?

[Derek Bodner]

Somebody really needs to get Phoenix a new owner.  They give up 2 first round picks to stay out of luxury tax land.

[Lurker]

Somebody really needs to get Phoenix a new owner.  They give up 2 first round picks to stay out of luxury tax land.

Actually 3 picks if you include selling the rights to this year's pick (Fernandez) to Portland for cash.

[Derek Bodner]

Somebody really needs to get Phoenix a new owner.  They give up 2 first round picks to stay out of luxury tax land.

Actually 3 picks if you include selling the rights to this year's pick (Fernandez) to Portland for cash.

They also gave up Deng a few years ago.  The 7th pick in the draft.

[ziggy]

The Suns have given up their #1 pick in 2008, and 2010 in this deal, plus Rudy Fernandez this year, plus Sergio Rodriguez and Rajon Rondo in 2006, plus Nate Robinson in 2005, and Luol Deng in 2004.  They have got 2 trade exemptions this year, plus lots and lots of cash.

[ziggy]

Here is Phoenix's payroll for the next 4 years.

Player   2007/08
Shawn Marion   $16,440,000
Amare Stoudemire    $13,260,000
Steve Nash   $11,375,000
Boris Diaw   $9,000,000
Leandrinho Barbosa   $5,600,000
Raja Bell   $4,750,000
Marcus Banks   $3,888,000
Grant Hill   $1,830,000
Eric Piatkowski   $1,219,590
Sean Marks   
Alando Tucker   $931,920
TOTALS:   $68,294,510

Player   2008/09
Shawn Marion   $17,180,000
Amare Stoudemire    $14,520,000
Steve Nash   $12,250,000
Boris Diaw   $9,000,000
Leandrinho Barbosa   $6,100,000
Raja Bell   $5,000,000
Marcus Banks   $4,176,000
Grant Hill   $1,976,400
Eric Piatkowski   $0
Sean Marks   $0
Alando Tucker   $1,001,880
TOTALS:   $71,204,280

Player   2009/10
Shawn Marion   $0
Amare Stoudemire    $15,780,000
Steve Nash   $13,125,000
Boris Diaw   $9,000,000
Leandrinho Barbosa   $6,600,000
Raja Bell   $5,250,000
Marcus Banks   $4,464,000
Grant Hill   $0
Eric Piatkowski   $0
Sean Marks   $0
Alando Tucker   $1,071,720
TOTALS:   $41,094,000

Player   2010/11
Shawn Marion   $0
Amare Stoudemire    $17,040,000
Steve Nash   $0
Boris Diaw   $9,000,000
Leandrinho Barbosa   $7,100,000
Raja Bell   $0
Marcus Banks   $4,752,000
Grant Hill   $0
Eric Piatkowski   $0
Sean Marks   $0
Alando Tucker   $1,934,455
TOTALS:   $37,892,000


Note in 2009 they will have only $41,000,000 in payroll, with Nash as a team option.  That means that they could spend up $15 to $16 million on FA, IF THEY LET NASH WALK, but they will have next to nothing to spend if they keep Nash.

The following season they could spend up to $20 million on FA if they let Nash walk.

One thing to remember in all this is that they will get Atlanta's #1 pick next year no matter what.  For arguments sake assume it is in the range of #8-#12.  That will add about $2 million in 2009, and $2.5 million in 2010.

They have 11 players under contract now, so they need to add players.  The players they add will be near the minimum, and they will not sign anyone out past the 2009 season.  They did not want to add rookies who will take away from their cap space in 2010, which is why they traded away those 2 #1 picks.

Is all of this a good strategy???

[Reality]

They have 11 players under contract now, so they need to add players.  The players they add will be near the minimum, and they will not sign anyone out past the 2009 season.  They did not want to add rookies who will take away from their cap space in 2010, which is why they traded away those 2 #1 picks.

Is all of this a good strategy??? 

  Their window is now for a title, so i don't get all the clearing for 2009-10.   

[Skandery]

I doubt Sergio Rodriguez or Rudy Fernandez is the difference between Phoenix getting a championship or not.

They decided what they had in Diaw, Stoudemire, and Barbosa was better than what they could get from the draft and that's why they extended all three rather than having to sign rooks.  Nothing wrong with that.  It's not like they can pull a Dallas, Philly, or New York and blow the Cap out of the water, they're still small-market.

=======================

I mean when was the last time San An signed a draft pick and not just stashed them overseas.  They got their team, they don't need rooks.  Small-market teams have to play with a different set of rules I think, or they go the way of Memphis, Sacramento, Portland, and Seattle --- overpaid, shaky rosters that lead to owners whining about better arenas and public funding --- next thing you know, the owner sells or tries to blackmail the city by threatening to move the team.

[Reality]

I dunno.  People didn't think Fabs would make a difference.

What did Phx get for Sergio Rodriguez or Rudy Fernandez?

[ziggy]

What did Phx get for Sergio Rodriguez or Rudy Fernandez?

$6,000,000 in cash.

[Skandery]

No ziggy...

$6,000,000 in cash considerations


 

[Wolverine]

It's not like they can pull a Dallas, Philly, or New York and blow the Cap out of the water, they're still small-market.

=======================

I mean when was the last time San An signed a draft pick and not just stashed them overseas.  They got their team, they don't need rooks.  Small-market teams have to play with a different set of rules I think, or they go the way of Memphis, Sacramento, Portland, and Seattle --- overpaid, shaky rosters that lead to owners whining about better arenas and public funding --- next thing you know, the owner sells or tries to blackmail the city by threatening to move the team.

Uh ... Phoenix is the 13th largest media market in the country.  San Antonio is 37th.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

And it's not as if the Suns aren't popular.  I haven't checked the stats, but I'd bet Phoenix memoribilia sales are among the best in the league.  We're talking about an up-tempo, exciting team that has wide appeal among casual fans - like myself.

Sure, New York, Philly and Dallas are all top-ten DMAs - numbers one, four and six, respectively - but don't act as if Phoenix is some small hole-in-the-wall.

[Skandery]

Okay, I'll amend to "Phoenix is one of the bigger small-market teams in the NBA--better?"  Does it really change anything I said, Caleb?

[Wolverine]

Okay, I'll amend to "Phoenix is one of the bigger small-market teams in the NBA--better?"  Does it really change anything I said, Caleb?

You're missing the point.  The jist of what I'm saying is that "small-market" is somewhat of a misnomer, and doesn't really mean anything.  Phoenix COULD spend as much as Dallas or Chicago, but chooses NOT TO.

The idea of bigger-market teams having the advantage due to a larger fanbase isn't always true.  As I said, I'd bet the Suns' memoribilia sales are near the top of the league, thanks to an incredibly large number of fans.  And on top of that, they sell-out every home game.  Consequently, the organization has such a large amount of revenue COMING IN - probably among the top five teams in the league - that SPENDING money isn't a result of not having any ... it's a matter of CHOICE.

Keep in mind, I'm not making the argument that all franchises are created equal.  In baseball, the Yankees can outspend everyone because they're in the largest market, have the biggest fanbase, own their own television network and have an owner who's OBSESSED with winning - among other factors.

But the Phoenix Suns are located in the 13th largest city in America, which ranks them 12th out of the 30 NBA teams (because Tampa doesn't have a team).  Calling Phoenix a small-market team insinuates that almost two-thirds of the league is "small-market."  And that's MISLEADING.

Atlanta is the 8th largest city in the US.  Their payroll sits at just above $44 million - placing them 29th out of 30 teams.  Why?  Because their owners putting the "f" in FRUGAL.  San Antonio and Phoenix have the 7th and 8th largest payrolls.  Their DMA numbers?  37th and 13th, respectively.