Was Phil informed of the long term plans?

[WayOutWest]

But if you're Kobe, realistically you want to be traded to a team that's close enough that he could put them over the top, but not the Spurs - a team that could beat the Spurs next season. 

The usually inept -sees all things in extreme purple haze Michyeall Thompson suggested Marion, Barbosa, Diaw, all three 2007 1st round picks (someting like 13, 19 and 25) for the Kobester.  The reasoning being AStoudamire, Nash and Kobe would be a dynamo within the range of the Spurs Dynamic Trio.  At the same time, he reasoned LA is going to lose him anyway so there is a good nucleous of young for the Lakers to build on and compete at the same time.
C Bynum
F Odom
F Marion
G Barbosa
G Farmar?
6th man F Diaw

Three picks either pachaged for another deal or hope to get a piece in the draft.

Problem is currently no Phx bench and an injury to any of the would be "Phoenix Trio" would be derailment. 

From Phx point of view i would offer all above except the three picks.

Marion AND Barbosa is a little steep, PHX shouldn't even consider the picks if they are going to give up talent like those two.  A trio of Nash, Amare and Kobe is definately better than TD, Parker and GNob, not sure how it plays out further down the rosters, especially on the defensive end.

[Reality]

  A trio of Nash, Amare and Kobe is definately better than TD, Parker and GNob, not sure how it plays out further down the rosters, especially on the defensive end. 

  Bring it on.

Marion AND Barbosa is a little steep, PHX shouldn't even consider the picks if they are going to give up talent like those two.

  Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[WayOutWest]

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

The sad part is you cannot connect the dots, my posts have pretty much addressed this type of scenario.

[Reality]

Right.  6 months ago you said you might consider Tim Duncan for Kobme, as if the Spurs would fall for that.    Now you're saying Marion and Barbosa are too much. 
The Kobe dots are connected.

Back on topic, you and no one else seems to know if Phil was informed all along of the Lakers long term .500 Now with Kobe-Win Later plans.  The one Kobe claims is a recent revelation to himself.

[WayOutWest]

Right.  6 months ago you said you might consider Tim Duncan for Kobme, as if the Spurs would fall for that.    Now you're saying Marion and Barbosa are too much. 
The Kobe dots are connected.

Still can't connect the dots huh?  Think about what's changed since six months ago and think about what I've been posting about in regards to Kobe and the Lakers and you might figure it out.  Untill then have fun.

[rickortreat]

Marion AND Barbosa is a little steep, PHX shouldn't even consider the picks if they are going to give up talent like those two.  A trio of Nash, Amare and Kobe is definately better than TD, Parker and GNob, not sure how it plays out further down the rosters, especially on the defensive end.

It might improve the Suns, but possibly not enough to get them past the Spurs if they have to give up Marion and Barbosa.  What the Suns really need is another big man to bang with Oberto and Duncan- Stoudamire is not a center, and is not really a back to the basket player.  The Suns have no one to keep Duncan in check.

[Reality]

Still can't connect the dots huh? 

No.  My sides are still hurting from your thinking Baron Davis is no improvement over Smuch Parker.
Or did you mean Byron Davis?

[WayOutWest]

Still can't connect the dots huh? 

No.  My sides are still hurting from your thinking Baron Davis is no improvement over Smuch Parker.
Or did you mean Byron Davis?

OK, I'll dumb it down for you.  Kobe has destroyed his trade value by going public with his drama, I've posted that SEVERAL times, so Kobe's trade value has plummeted in recent weeks. 

I NEVER said Davis was NO improvement over Smush, I said he wouldn't help much in the triangle, the PG is not even required in the triangle, just look at who played that spot durring the Bulls and Laker runs.  Everyone on this board, except you I guess, knows that the Lakers need a BIG MAN to make them a condendor, last I checked Davis doesn't play the 4 or 5.

My work here is done, there is no comeback, as your predecessor would say "case closed!".

[Reality]

Everyone on this board, except you I guess, knows that the Lakers need a BIG MAN to make them a condendor, last I checked Davis doesn't play the 4 or 5. 

  Kobe says he also recruited Boozer.  You must have missed it.  According to Kobester, they could have also gotten Baron Davis, not Byron Davis.  Boozer and Davis together.  But Boozer wouldn't play the point guard, Davis would.

Baron Davis would be a huge improvement over Smush Parker in the triangle.  You must have thought it was Byron Davis.

My work here is done, there is no comeback, as your predecessor would say "case closed!"

  If you find out if Phil really knew about the long term plans, please come back.

[westkoast]

Everyone on this board, except you I guess, knows that the Lakers need a BIG MAN to make them a condendor, last I checked Davis doesn't play the 4 or 5. 

  Kobe says he also recruited Boozer.  You must have missed it.  According to Kobester, they could have also gotten Baron Davis, not Byron Davis.  Boozer and Davis together.  But Boozer wouldn't play the point guard, Davis would.

Baron Davis would be a huge improvement over Smush Parker in the triangle.  You must have thought it was Byron Davis.

My work here is done, there is no comeback, as your predecessor would say "case closed!"

  If you find out if Phil really knew about the long term plans, please come back.

Baron Davis would be a huge improvement because he could be a 15-20 PPG scorer if he could adjust to how the triangle would get him shots.  Or if Phil ran more plays for him.  Another 20 PPG scorer would really benefit the Lakers in the consistency department and would allow Kobe, if he wanted to remember to like 5 years ago, to play much better defense then he has in the past 2 years.

HOWEVER...I'd have to agree with your father Reality.  Baron  would not be a big improvement over Smush in the triangle.   You can't just place a more talented guard from another squad into the triangle and expect all stats to transfer over.  Or even constancy.    See Gary Payton as an example.  He was not use to getting to the spots he likes on the floor inside the triangle without the ball.  His pick and roll passing was not fully utilized.  Also, his creative play making declined.  A lot of those assists came because Payton was able to push the ball with Karl Malone.  That was not running the triangle and the Lakers do not have enough plays to run a successfull break night in and night out.    The way the triangle is setup you don't have to be a fancy passer to move the ball inside of it.  That is why you could have Scottie Pippen (not saying he is a horrible passer but not as talented as a lot of PGs) and BJ Armstrong running the point with some success.  If the spacing is correct then the pass is fairly easy to make.  The problem with some point guards is that they are use to handling the ball and creating plays with the ball in their hands.  Not all can adjust to playing without the ball as most of them did not in college or in the pros. 

[Reality]

You two are such an easy sale.
Maybe, just maybe Phil would have ran an offense more suitable to Baron Davis with Boozer if the Lakers would have acquired them? (like Kobester said they could have.) 
Ya think?
Precedent?  2004 Spurs whooping on Lakers up 2-0.  Switched from triangle to let Payton do what he wanted, that being create off drible and pic n roll.  4 straight wins.

[westkoast]

You two are such an easy sale.
Maybe, just maybe Phil would have ran an offense more suitable to Baron Davis with Boozer if the Lakers would have acquired them? (like Kobester said they could have.) 
Ya think?
Precedent?  2004 Spurs whooping on Lakers up 2-0.  Switched from triangle to let Payton do what he wanted, that being create off drible and pic n roll.  4 straight wins.

Yeah he is going to give up on the triangle offense, the one that has brought a measly 9 NBA championships in 17 years, for a hybrid offense that caters to one player.  Thus ignoring certain players on the floor who would play better inside the triangle (Luke Walton, Andrew Bynum) at the same time,

You are right Reality...he would switch up the offense because he never had a post player of Boozer's caliber in the triangle...wait nevermind he had Shaq in the triangle.  Okay he would switch up an entire tested and proven system that so much time has been invested to learn by some of these players for one in the hope that he would put 17 points in the board.

The reason the Lakers pounded on the Spurs is not because of the offensive changes, it was the way they changed how they wanted Parker to operate.  Once they were able to keep Tony Parker from killing them on offense is when the series started to turn around.

[Reality]

The reason the Lakers pounded on the Spurs is not because of the offensive changes, it was the way they changed how they wanted Parker to operate.  Once they were able to keep Tony Parker from killing them on offense is when the series started to turn around.

  So it's your assertion that the Lakers and Phil made no offensive changes of note between Gm 2 and Gm 3?  I already know what they did, but i want to ask you.

True that they made D changes as you mentioned specifically geared towoards slowing Parker.

Lastly on O, the triangle aint been too effective the last two.  Phil would not and will not forever hold on to old habits and misbeliefs if a better O would work.  Phil would take Baron Davis over Smush in a heartbeat.

[westkoast]

The reason the Lakers pounded on the Spurs is not because of the offensive changes, it was the way they changed how they wanted Parker to operate.  Once they were able to keep Tony Parker from killing them on offense is when the series started to turn around.

  So it's your assertion that the Lakers and Phil made no offensive changes of note between Gm 2 and Gm 3?  I already know what they did, but i want to ask you.

True that they made D changes as you mentioned specifically geared towoards slowing Parker.

Lastly on O, the triangle aint been too effective the last two.  Phil would not and will not forever hold on to old habits and misbeliefs if a better O would work.  Phil would take Baron Davis over Smush in a heartbeat.

Yes they did make changes on how Payton was playing Parker on the offensive end but those changes were not the changes that made a difference.  Parker's dribble penetration was killing the Lakers.  Like when most teams play the Spurs Duncan is going to get his regardless.  It is guys like Parker and Manu that teams need to stop in order to beat the squad.

The triangle has not been effective because of some of the players inside of the system.  The Lakers in the triangle at the begging of last year looked good and injuries really took them out of it.  The year before a number of the players were struggling with  learning it.  Of course Phil Jackson would take Baron Davis over Smush Parker...that still doesn't mean he is an improvement at the PG inside the triangle.  In general yes but inside the triangle, I don't think so except for the fact that he has the ability to be a more consistent scorer.  I don't think Phil would change the offense up regardless of what is going on.  Like any system...whether it be Nellie's, Pop's, or Phil's you need to have the right players to make it work.

[WayOutWest]

I don't think Phil would change the offense up regardless of what is going on.  Like any system...whether it be Nellie's, Pop's, or Phil's you need to have the right players to make it work.

westkoast,

Phil did not change the system for Micheal Jordan BUT of course he would for Baron Davis.