Oden or Durant

[ziggy]

OK my teams sucks, and we have a decent shot in the lottery.  Tonight is the lottery, so before I find out that Portland doesn't have a chance at either thought I would ask the question.

Oden or Durant?

I have gone through this on another board.  I have got lots of "always take the big guy" responses, but I am not so sure.  I thought I would ask these questions as well just to frame the argument.  You can look at it at the time of the draft or you can look at it after the fact however you want to.

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  I take Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan?  I take Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  I take Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  This is a toss up today
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  That is obvious
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  The Chuckster
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  The Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Do you need to ask?

Looking at it today I would take the non-center in every case, except maybe Kobe/DRob, and in my mind that is still a a highly qualified maybe.

So me I take Durant.

[Reality]

Oden skill set best for big man to come along since Tim Dunkar.

Bird and Magic had Bob Parish and Kareem, arguably two of the top 10 centers of all time.  Bird also had top 3 McHale at PF, HOF Dennis Johnson at guard.  Magic had push off with free hand Worthy and Stern.  So neither by any means did it without a center and help.

Clyde could not title till he hooked up with Olajuwan.
Kobe is .500 without Shaq using non Laker Math.
Lebron has yet to be in a finals altho he is a top talent.
DWade had Shaq just as much as Shaq had him.

Even SuperGNob has Tim Dunkan.  I'll go with Oden all the way.

[Joe Vancil]

If my team doesn't have a big guy, I take the best big guy.  If my team has an elite-level big guy, then I'll consider the other guy.  I believe in drafting based upon need and upon fit, and even then, I'll still lean toward the big guy, much as Houston did in 1984.  Sure - you pass up on Jordan - but you get Olajuwon...and they already had Sampson.  If anything, there was the case where I'd have gone the other direction.  And, when you look at it, going after Olajuwon *WORKED* for Houston...although not to the level of Jordan, but still, IT WORKED.

I'd go after Oden.

If I were the Blazers, I'd *DEFINITELY* go after Oden.

[Lurker]

I'd would choose Oden.  Mainly because his skills will translate to the NBA better...rebounding and blocking shots are not a lot different in the NBA than college.  Bulk & size...with the athleticism Oden has...will succeed in the NBA.

Playing the wing is greatly different...Durant will see much tougher defenders and athletes than he saw in the Big 12.  And he may or may not prove out.  How many "next Jordan" have come & gone?

[WayOutWest]

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  I take Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan?  I take Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  I take Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  This is a toss up today
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  That is obvious
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  The Chuckster
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  The Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Do you need to ask?

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  Shaq, no contest
Magic or Tim Duncan?  Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  Dream
Kobe or David Robinson?  Tough call, I'd lean toward DRob, but Kobe is comming along to change my opinion.
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  Duh
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Ewing
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Better question is DWade or Howard, I take Howard (That's the kid from Orlando right?)

IMO you take the big cause it's easier to build around, so I go with Oden.

[rickortreat]

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  Shaq, no contest
Magic or Tim Duncan?  Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  Dream
Kobe or David Robinson?  Tough call, I'd lean toward DRob, but Kobe is comming along to change my opinion.
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  Duh
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Ewing
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Better question is DWade or Howard, I take Howard (That's the kid from Orlando right?)

IMO you take the big cause it's easier to build around, so I go with Oden.
   
A quality big man wins championships, and is harder to find.  You still need other pieces, but there are more quality players at the other postions, so you have a better chance of picking them up without using the top pick in the draft.

That's why I'd take Shaq over Jordan.
I'd also take Duncan over Magic.
And Olajuwon over Bird
Garnett of course.
Ewing was not an elite center, IMO, good but never good enough. Barkley was exceptional.  I'd call that one a toss-up.
Malone over Dougherty, but only in hind-sight.
Same thing with Clyde over Sampson- who would have guessed Sampson would be a bust?
Lebron so far is better than Yao.
And Howard should get the nod over Wade.

Always take the big guy if he's a lock. The only reason Jordan won so many titles is because Shaq didn't always have the pieces around him.  A lot of his best years were wasted in Orlando.

[Wolverine]

It's the board's resident big man talking, so you can take a stab at who I would take.

In regards to the who would you choose argument ...

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan?  EXTREMELY CLOSE, but I take Duncan.  I'd rather build around a big man.
Bird or Olajuwon?  Olajuwon
Kobe or David Robinson?  Admiral
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  KG
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Barkley
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  Malone
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  The Glide
LeBron or Yao?  Lebron (Hate Yao's game - too soft)
DWade or Bogut?  I agree, a better question would be Wade or Howard.  And for those who know me, guess who I would take?  Haha.

[ziggy]

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  I take Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan?  I take Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  I take Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  This is a toss up today
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  That is obvious
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  The Chuckster
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  The Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Do you need to ask?

Best big guy vs. Best other player
Jordan or Shaq?  Shaq, no contest
Magic or Tim Duncan?  Magic
Bird or Olajuwon?  Dream
Kobe or David Robinson?  Tough call, I'd lean toward DRob, but Kobe is comming along to change my opinion.
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  Duh
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Ewing
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  Mailman
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Better question is DWade or Howard, I take Howard (That's the kid from Orlando right?)

IMO you take the big cause it's easier to build around, so I go with Oden.

What a Laker Homer.  This is like saying Andre Iguodala is the next Darius Miles.  Oh right you said that as well.

Micheal Jordan
6 NBA titles

1984-85 NBA ROY
1984-85 NBA TSN ROY

1987-88 NBA AS MVP
1995-96 NBA AS MVP
1997-98 NBA AS MVP

1987-88 NBA MVP
1987-88 NBA TSN MVP
1988-89 NBA TSN MVP
1990-91 NBA MVP
1990-91 NBA TSN MVP
1991-92 NBA MVP
1991-92 NBA TSN MVP
1995-96 NBA MVP
1995-96 NBA TSN MVP
1996-97 NBA TSN MVP
1997-98 NBA MVP
1997-98 NBA TSN MVP

1987-88 NBA DPOY
1987-88 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1990-91 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-Defense (1st)

1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1990-91 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)

1990-91 NBA Finals MVP
1991-92 NBA Finals MVP
1992-93 NBA Finals MVP
1996-97 NBA Finals MVP
1997-98 NBA Finals MVP
1995-96 NBA Finals MVP

Led league in steals
1987-88 NBA 259 (1)
1989-90 NBA 227 (1)
1992-93 NBA 221 (1)

Led League in Points
1984-85 NBA 2313 (1)
1986-87 NBA 3041 (1)
1987-88 NBA 2868 (1)
1988-89 NBA 2633 (1)
1989-90 NBA 2753 (1)
1990-91 NBA 2580 (1)
1991-92 NBA 2404 (1)
1992-93 NBA 2541 (1)
1995-96 NBA 2491 (1)
1996-97 NBA 2431 (1)
1997-98 NBA 2357 (1)

Led League in Efficiency Rating
1986-87 NBA 29.8 (1)
1987-88 NBA 31.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 31.1 (1)
1989-90 NBA 31.2 (1)
1990-91 NBA 31.6 (1)
1991-92 NBA 27.7 (1)
1992-93 NBA 29.7 (1)

Player Wins
1984-85 NBA 13.2 (2) (as a rookie)
1986-87 NBA 15.9 (1)
1987-88 NBA 17.4 (1)
1988-89 NBA 16.8 (1)
1989-90 NBA 16.0 (1)
1990-91 NBA 15.8 (1)
1991-92 NBA 15.2 (1)
1996-97 NBA 14.8 (1)


Shaquille O'Neal
4 NBA Titles

1992-93 NBA ROY
1992-93 NBA TSN ROY

1999-00 NBA MVP
1999-00 NBA TSN MVP
2004-05 NBA TSN MVP
Jordan won it 7 different seasons

1999-00 NBA Finals MVP
2000-01 NBA Finals MVP
2001-02 NBA Finals MVP
Jordan won it 6 times

1999-00 NBA AS MVP
2003-04 NBA AS MVP
Jordan won it 3 times

1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
Jordan won it 9 times and missed 2 of his prime seasons.

First team all defense or Defensive Player of the year
SHAQ ZERO
Jordan was DPOY once and first team 9 times

Led League in FG%
1993-94 NBA .599 (1)
1997-98 NBA .584 (1)
1998-99 NBA .576 (1)
1999-00 NBA .574 (1)
2000-01 NBA .572 (1)
2001-02 NBA .579 (1)
2003-04 NBA .584 (1)
2004-05 NBA .601 (1)
2005-06 NBA .600 (1)

Total Points
1994-95 NBA 2315 (1) (Jordan was playing baseball)
1998-99 NBA 1289 (1) (Jordan had retired)
1999-00 NBA 2344 (1) (Jordan had retired)
Jordan led the league 11 times, and missed 2 years when he was retired

NBA Efficiency Rating
1997-98 NBA 28.8 (1)
1998-99 NBA 30.6 (1)
1999-00 NBA 30.6 (1)
2000-01 NBA 30.2 (1)
2001-02 NBA 29.7 (1)
Jordan led the league 7 times

Player Wins
Shaq never led the league
Jordan led the league 8 times

Jordan was better without a doubt.



Larry Bird

3 NBA titles, 2 runnerup's  (during the same era as Magic and Jabbar)

1979-80 NBA ROY
1979-80 NBA TSN ROY

1983-84 NBA MVP
1984-85 NBA MVP
1984-85 NBA TSN MVP
1985-86 NBA MVP
1985-86 NBA TSN MVP

1981-82 NBA AS MVP

1983-84 NBA Finals MVP
1985-86 NBA Finals MVP

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

1981-82 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-Defense (2nd)

Led League in FT%
1983-84 NBA .888 (1)
1985-86 NBA .896 (1)
1986-87 NBA .910 (1)
1989-90 NBA .930 (1)

Led League in 3 pt Made
1985-86 NBA (1)
1986-87 NBA (1)

Points per Game top 10
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)

NBA Efficiency Rating
1981-82 NBA 22.6 (
1982-83 NBA 24.1 (4)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (2)
1984-85 NBA 26.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 25.6 (1)
1986-87 NBA 26.4 (3)
1987-88 NBA 27.8 (2)

Player Wins
1979-80 NBA 11.8 (3)
1980-81 NBA 12.0 (4)
1981-82 NBA 12.7 (3)
1982-83 NBA 13.2 (2)
1983-84 NBA 13.3 (1)
1984-85 NBA 14.6 (1)
1985-86 NBA 14.5 (1)
1986-87 NBA 13.8 (2)
1987-88 NBA 13.5 (3)


Offensive Win Shares
1984-85 NBA 32.2 (1)
1985-86 NBA 29.0 (1)
1984-85 NBA 32.2 (1)
1985-86 NBA 29.0 (1)
1987-88 NBA 34.5 (2)
1986-87 NBA 30.8 (3)
1983-84 NBA 24.6 (4)
1982-83 NBA 24.5 (7)
1981-82 NBA 22.1 (9)

Defensive Win Shares
1980-81 NBA 21.1 (1)
1983-84 NBA 18.7 (1)
1985-86 NBA 19.8 (1)
1981-82 NBA 19.5 (2)
1984-85 NBA 17.8 (2)
1982-83 NBA 17.6 (4)
1979-80 NBA 17.5 (4)
1986-87 NBA 15.2 (5)

Hakeem Olajuwon
2 NBA titles (both when Jordan, Bird, and Magic were retired, 1 other finals appearance)

1992-93 NBA DPOY
1993-94 NBA DPOY

1993-94 NBA MVP
1993-94 NBA TSN MVP

1993-94 NBA Finals MVP
1994-95 NBA Finals MVP

1986-87 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1990-91 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-Defense (2nd)
1996-97 NBA All-Defense (2nd)

1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

Led League in Rebounds
1988-89 NBA 1105 (1)
1989-90 NBA 1149 (1)

Led NBA in Blocks
1989-90 NBA 376 (1)
1992-93 NBA 342 (1)

Points per game top 10
1987-88 NBA 1805 (10)
1988-89 NBA 2034 (10)
1989-90 NBA 1995 (7)
1992-93 NBA 2140 (3)
1993-94 NBA 2184 (3)
1994-95 NBA 2005 (4)
1995-96 NBA 1936 (4)
1996-97 NBA 1810 (6)

Player wins
1985-86 NBA 10.4 (4)
1987-88 NBA 12.6 (4)
1988-89 NBA 14.9 (2)
1989-90 NBA 14.6 (4)
1992-93 NBA 16.8 (1)
1993-94 NBA 15.7 (2)

Defensive Win Shares
1986-87 NBA 17.7 (1)
1987-88 NBA 19.8 (1)
1988-89 NBA 24.6 (1)
1989-90 NBA 24.0 (2)
1990-91 NBA 18.1 (3)
1991-92 NBA 19.7 (4)
1992-93 NBA 25.5 (1)
1993-94 NBA 26.8 (1)


Bird was a borderline top 5 PLAYER ALL TIME.  3 Titles 5 trips to the finals, ROY, 3 Time MVP, 9 time all-nba first team
Hakeem was great a great defender, and top 5 CENTER all-time, made 3 trips to the finals, won twice while Jordan was retired. one 1 MVP, twice DPOY, and 6 time all-NBA first team.

BIRD WAS BETTER

[Reality]

Bird was a borderline top 5 PLAYER ALL TIME.  3 Titles 5 trips to the finals, ROY, 3 Time MVP, 9 time all-nba first team
Hakeem was great a great defender, and top 5 CENTER all-time, made 3 trips to the finals, won twice while Jordan was retired. one 1 MVP, twice DPOY, and 6 time all-NBA first team.
BIRD WAS BETTER

No doubt.
To clarify my comments on Bird was that he had help.  But agree, Bird was nails and concur top 5 alltime.

Jordan or Shaq?  Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan?  Duncan
Bird or Olajuwon?  Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  DRob over .500
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?   Joe Sm...please.
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Chuck
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  The Cheapshot only due to health reasons.
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde ditto.  Short time he was healthy i thought Ralph was very good.
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  Do you need to ask?

[westkoast]

Jordan or Shaq?  Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan? Magic but this is awfully close
Bird or Olajuwon?  Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  Kobe
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  KG
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Bark-ley
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  No Brainer
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  The Flash

Personally I'd take the smaller guy at this point

[ziggy]

Jordan or Shaq?  Jordan
Magic or Tim Duncan? Magic but this is awfully close
Bird or Olajuwon?  Bird
Kobe or David Robinson?  Kobe
Kevin Garnett or Joe Smith?  KG
Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing?  Bark-ley
Karl Malone or Brad Daughtery?  No Brainer
Clyde Drexler or Ralph Sampson?  Clyde
LeBron or Yao? Lebron
DWade or Bogut?  The Flash

Personally I'd take the smaller guy at this point

BINGO!!! 
How many NBA titles since say 1980 has been won by a team with the league MVP who was a center, and how many were won with the league MVP as a non-center??
How many titles since 1980 have been won by a team that had an all-NBA first teamer at center, vs how many titles have been won by teams that had an all-nba first teamer who was a non-center??

History tells us you have a better chance of winning with a solid center and a great wing, than with a great center, and just a solid wing player.


I agree also on the DWade vs D Howard comparison is a better comparison.  Today if I had to choose I would take DWade.  He has done more in his short career than Howard.  Howard will be great, but he did not take a big step forward this year, but a little step backwards.  In Wades first year he took Miami from being a bad lottery team into the second round of the playoffs.  In 4 seasons he has played in 54 playoff games.  Howard didn't lead his team to the playoffs until his 3rd season, and even then they were swept out in the first round.


The closest comparisons above IMHO are Duncan and Magic, but I would take Magic, and Kobe and DRob, and Kobe is still mid-career.

[Derek Bodner]

all of these comparison's are pointless.  You could compare Tim Duncan and Magic to get the desired result (Small winning).  Or you could compare Tim Duncan and McGrady and get a vastly different result.   Point being, if you're going to draft a wing, you had better be damned sure it's a "top 10 wing player of all time", as besides wade, all the others you have listed are.

You're also comparing "centers vs non-centers", which is a little wrong as well.

Outside of Jordan and the Pistons, all nba champions in the last 30 years have had an all-time great big man.  It is needed.

I think there's a better chance Oden becomes the best center in the league than there is Durant becomes the best SF in the league.  I think you have to take him.

[ziggy]

all of these comparison's are pointless.  You could compare Tim Duncan and Magic to get the desired result (Small winning).  Or you could compare Tim Duncan and McGrady and get a vastly different result.   Point being, if you're going to draft a wing, you had better be damned sure it's a "top 10 wing player of all time", as besides wade, all the others you have listed are.

My point of the comparisons was simple
Best big vs best non-center
second best big vs 2nd best non center
3rd best big vs 4rd best non center
and so on
I did the Yao v Lebron because same time frame, same with Dwade and Howard.  Garnett and Joe Smith were drafted in the same draft.

As far as making damn sure about the little guy I would say the same thing about the big guy.  If you have the #1 pick you better make it count and not waste it on Kwame Brown or Olowakandi etc.  And if you are going to pass on a potential great wing top 10 you better make sure that you get a top 5-6 big guy.

[Skandery]

Wow Ziggy, this'll be weird for me.  I have to disagree.  ....wait a minute, you also didn't know what you were talking about concerning the BCS.   

The aberration that is Michael Jordan and the unified balance amongst the starters of BOTH Detroit teams (old and knew) notwithstanding, this has been a league dominated by BIG MEN.  It's a big man's game and it's been a big man's league. 

I contend that 3 of the 5 Laker championships were anchored by their Center big man Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who in my mind was their best player throughout those years.  Yeah, Magic was great, but score is 110-109, Lakers down by one with 15 seconds left on the clock coming out of a timeout in a Game 7.  There is ONE person on that court getting the shot and it ain't Magic.

Larry Bird had perhaps the most gifted low post player to ever step out on the court in Kevin McHale.  Notice I didn't say dominant--those were guys like Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, etc, but you want a clinic on footwork and low post moves and there is none better than McHale to show you.  And let's not forget, its not like they had chopped liver at Center--Robert Parish.

As great as Dr. J was, as great as Mo Cheeks was, as great of a coach as Billy Cunningham was, as awesome of a bench player as Bobby Jones was (right Joe?), Philly doesn't win that championship without Moses Malone coming to town

Houston Rockets had Hakeem Olajuwon.  Clyde Drexler, as great of a wing as he was and as close as he got couldn't get over the hump until he was playing with Dream.

The Lakers were anchored by Shaquille O'Neal.  Once again, Kobe helped, but Shaq lead that team. 

The Spurs were anchored by Tim Duncan.  Yeah it was nice having D-Rob, Sean Elliott and Manu is awesome but the San Antonio Spurs stop and start with Tim Duncan.

Miami had to add Shaq to advance beyond the second round and eventually win last year's championship. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Counting only 3 of the 5 Laker championships if you want to give all the credit in 87 and 88 to Magic (which is fine by me), the teams I've mentioned have won 16 of the last 27 championships (60%). 

Jordan had 6 championships and I'm very inclined to put the last 3 of those championships on the big men side, because while Michael was technically a 6'6 two guard--he was a dominant post threat in Chicago's triangle.  He did it from about 14-16 feet instead of 8-10 feet like a center would but he was still primarily a post player during the second three peat. 

Detroit has 3 championships between their two teams.  The first two were lead by guards Isiah and Joe Dumars and had James Edwards and John Salley at C.  Mark Aguirre was a lost post threat but those teams don't count.  The recent team did have a dominant defensive big man in Ben Wallace--and an offensive presence in the post in Rasheed Wallace.  Many people say that Detroit wouldn't have had a chance against LA if Rasheed hadn't come over to that team midway through that season via Atlanta, but I'm still not counting that team.

And Magic had the other 2 championships.         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion:  If there is a surefire HOF big man and a surefire HOF wing to choose between.  I'd take the big man every single time without hesitation.

...but I guess being a Portland native and fan.  I could see you still having nightmares about the selection of Sam Bowie at #2 instead of Michael Jordan (who happened to be the most dominant non-big the league has ever known). 

[Derek Bodner]

My point of the comparisons was simple
Best big vs best non-center
second best big vs 2nd best non center
3rd best big vs 4rd best non center
and so on

Still flawed.  You're comparing 4 positions vs one.  The 4 positions combined should have a higher probability of producing the better player.

Besides, this isn't about taking a C, it's about taking a post player.  Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett are all post players.

Bringing up Olowokandi is pointless.  That's an error in evaluation.  It happens at all positions (more with a big player because players tend to reach for bigs, but that's beside the point).  The point of this debate should not be about player evaluation but what position is worth more.  The fact that Olowokandi was mis-evaluated does not prove the worth of a big man.

Basically, my point is what Skandery said.  Championship teams have dominant big men.  Kareem, Hakeem, Moses, Duncan, Shaq.  The list goes on.  It's necessary, and if you have the chance to get the dominant big, you have to take it.  Oden has a chance to be a game changer at both ends of the court.  A big of that nature will always be more valuable than a scoring wing player (and right now, Durant is NOT a great 2-way player).