Author Topic: Why is Yao not shouldering ANY blame for the HOU loss in the 1st round?  (Read 7421 times)

Offline westkoast

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2006-07 ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM

Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland (64) 494
Forward Chris Bosh, Toronto (8) 234
Center Yao Ming, Houston (38) 333
Guard Gilbert Arenas, Washington 295
Guard Tracy McGrady, Houston (10) 278


What does that have to do with any of the following:

1) Van Gundy MAKING Yao not rebound the ball, keep from turning the ball over, and not blocking shots for the last part of the series.

2) Marketing Yao is okay but marketing of other players you personally do not like is not okay

3) You being wrong about Yao Ming
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Offline Lurker

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2006-07 ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM

Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland (64) 494
Forward Chris Bosh, Toronto (8) 234
Center Yao Ming, Houston (38) 333
Guard Gilbert Arenas, Washington 295
Guard Tracy McGrady, Houston (10) 278


What does that have to do with any of the following:

1) Van Gundy MAKING Yao not rebound the ball, keep from turning the ball over, and not blocking shots for the last part of the series.

2) Marketing Yao is okay but marketing of other players you personally do not like is not okay

3) You being wrong about Yao Ming

I would say that this answer from Reality makes it all the more reason to pile on Yao.  If he is second team All-NBA then he should not get outplayed by Okur who got a total of 7 votes.

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Other players receiving votes, with point totals (first team votes in parentheses): Carlos Boozer, Utah, 127; Shaquille O’Neal, Miami, 70 (3); Jason Kidd, New Jersey, 58; Marcus Camby, Denver, 42 (2); Shawn Marion, Phoenix, 41; Allen Iverson, Denver, 39; Tony Parker, San Antonio, 39; Vince Carter, New Jersey, 15; Deron Williams, Utah, 15; Josh Howard, Dallas, 11; Elton Brand, L.A. Clippers, 8; Mehmet Okur, Utah, 7
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Offline Reality

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What does that have to do with any of the following:

1) Van Gundy MAKING Yao not rebound the ball, keep from turning the ball over, and not blocking shots for the last part of the series.

2) Marketing Yao is okay but marketing of other players you personally do not like is not okay

3) You being wrong about Yao Ming
1 Van Gundys style costs Yao a lot of rebounds.
2.  Marketing Shaq and Kobe was fine with me.  I've did and do the same. 
It's altering games that i personally did not and do not like. 
3.  Yao had already overtaken Shaq.  I have never compared Shaqs career sum total to Yaos.  But they did cross talent paths in 2004.  Shaq has enjoyed Stern, Dick Bavetta, Phil J, and WOWs pick for greatest coach ever, Riles.  (altho he is silent about this years Heat exit.)  Yao has stuck himself with Grunty.  Stoopid move by agent not to sign with Lakers when he could have.
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  would say that this answer from Reality makes it all the more reason to pile on Yao.  If he is second team All-NBA then he should not get outplayed by Okur who got a total of 7 votes.
Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Offline Lurker

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Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Okur guarded Yao.  Yao didn't guard Okur because he isn't mobile enough to guard the perimeter.  BTW I didn't see Boozer in the top 3 teams either...so Yao got out played by two guys who couldn't muster enough votes combined to break into the top 6 forwards.
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Offline Reality

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Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Okur guarded Yao.  Yao didn't guard Okur because he isn't mobile enough to guard the perimeter.  BTW I didn't see Boozer in the top 3 teams either...so Yao got out played by two guys who couldn't muster enough votes combined to break into the top 6 forwards.
He sure did.  Houston up 2 games to zero, Gm 3:
Utah 81 Houston 67
Yao 26 pts 14 boards
Frontline help from Yaos forwards?  Juwon Howard 0-5 with 1 rebound.  Chuck Hayes 0-2 (he did have 7 boards)
Outside shooting help?  Luther Head 0-5.

The entire Houston team shot 6-27 outside of Yao-TMac.

Yet you blame this game on Yao. ::) :D

Gm 6 potential clincher Hou shoots 20-51 (39%) as Yaowser goes for 9-16 for 25 pts.  25 pts on 16 shots.  That is good.  His turnovers did stink!

Sloan >>>>> Van Gundy.  Pure and simple.

Offline westkoast

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Quote

1 Van Gundys style costs Yao a lot of rebounds.

Elaborate lil scrappy.  How does his style cost Yao alot of defensive rebounds or offensive rebounds?  The guy is the biggest on the court he should get 6 BY DEFAULT.  If Howard, Amare, and Boozer can snatch 20 a game Yao should be able to.  He beat out them in voting didn't he?


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2.  Marketing Shaq and Kobe was fine with me.  I've did and do the same.   

Riiiiight

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It's altering games that i personally did not and do not like. 

LOL @ this bs

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3.  Yao had already overtaken Shaq.

When?  Now?  Ya this season he did.  All the years before that? No.

 
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I have never compared Shaqs career sum total to Yaos.  But they did cross talent paths in 2004.  Shaq has enjoyed Stern, Dick Bavetta, Phil J, and WOWs pick for greatest coach ever, Riles.  (altho he is silent about this years Heat exit.) 

You haven't?  That's funny didn't you have a count down every time they matched up for years?  I'll have to use my buddy the search option to verify.

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Yao has stuck himself with Grunty.  Stoopid move by agent not to sign with Lakers when he could have.

Phil Jackson would not improve the issues with Yao....Phil couldn't do anything about his stamina, he can't do anything about his lack of leadership skills and the limitations he has due to his english.  Maybe he could get him to patrol the paint more but for some reason I don't see why Van Gundy wouldn't be saying the same thing.  To me ANYONE in a coaching position would be telling him that.

Lurker is right also Reality.  He is getting heavily pushed and doesn't deserve it.  The Boozer/Okur stats only further prove that.   I think both Sternfish and Realityfish both need to admit they were wrong about him.


« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 04:18:58 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Lurker

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Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Okur guarded Yao.  Yao didn't guard Okur because he isn't mobile enough to guard the perimeter.  BTW I didn't see Boozer in the top 3 teams either...so Yao got out played by two guys who couldn't muster enough votes combined to break into the top 6 forwards.
He sure did.  Houston up 2 games to zero, Gm 3:
Utah 81 Houston 67
Yao 26 pts 14 boards
Frontline help from Yaos forwards?  Juwon Howard 0-5 with 1 rebound.  Chuck Hayes 0-2 (he did have 7 boards)
Outside shooting help?  Luther Head 0-5.

The entire Houston team shot 6-27 outside of Yao-TMac.

Yet you blame this game on Yao. ::) :D

Gm 6 potential clincher Hou shoots 20-51 (39%) as Yaowser goes for 9-16 for 25 pts.  25 pts on 16 shots.  That is good.  His turnovers did stink!

Sloan >>>>> Van Gundy.  Pure and simple.

And I thought we were talking about the MONEY game.  You know game 7.  The big enchilada.  The real deal.  When Yao disappeared on the boards and had more turnovers than rebounds.  But then your argument falls flat when we look at that game.  And you keep focusing on scoring...the game involves than scoring.  Go back and read the Barry vs Finley posts. 
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Offline Reality

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Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Okur guarded Yao.  Yao didn't guard Okur because he isn't mobile enough to guard the perimeter.  BTW I didn't see Boozer in the top 3 teams either...so Yao got out played by two guys who couldn't muster enough votes combined to break into the top 6 forwards.
He sure did.  Houston up 2 games to zero, Gm 3:
Utah 81 Houston 67
Yao 26 pts 14 boards
Frontline help from Yaos forwards?  Juwon Howard 0-5 with 1 rebound.  Chuck Hayes 0-2 (he did have 7 boards)
Outside shooting help?  Luther Head 0-5.

The entire Houston team shot 6-27 outside of Yao-TMac.

Yet you blame this game on Yao. ::) :D

Gm 6 potential clincher Hou shoots 20-51 (39%) as Yaowser goes for 9-16 for 25 pts.  25 pts on 16 shots.  That is good.  His turnovers did stink!

Sloan >>>>> Van Gundy.  Pure and simple.

And I thought we were talking about the MONEY game.  You know game 7.  The big enchilada.  The real deal.  When Yao disappeared on the boards and had more turnovers than rebounds.  But then your argument falls flat when we look at that game.  And you keep focusing on scoring...the game involves than scoring.  Go back and read the Barry vs Finley posts. 
  I thought we were talking about the series.  But its a good way to sweep GM 3 under the rug.

lurker
Quote
IMO the only "credit" Utah sjould get for the first round is playing with more intensity in game 7 on the road.  Houston should have been fired up to claim victory at home but the Jazz were more determined. 

Offline westkoast

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Boozer outplayed Yao.  Yao was rarely guarding Okur.

Okur guarded Yao.  Yao didn't guard Okur because he isn't mobile enough to guard the perimeter.  BTW I didn't see Boozer in the top 3 teams either...so Yao got out played by two guys who couldn't muster enough votes combined to break into the top 6 forwards.
He sure did.  Houston up 2 games to zero, Gm 3:
Utah 81 Houston 67
Yao 26 pts 14 boards
Frontline help from Yaos forwards?  Juwon Howard 0-5 with 1 rebound.  Chuck Hayes 0-2 (he did have 7 boards)
Outside shooting help?  Luther Head 0-5.

The entire Houston team shot 6-27 outside of Yao-TMac.

Yet you blame this game on Yao. ::) :D

Gm 6 potential clincher Hou shoots 20-51 (39%) as Yaowser goes for 9-16 for 25 pts.  25 pts on 16 shots.  That is good.  His turnovers did stink!

Sloan >>>>> Van Gundy.  Pure and simple.

And I thought we were talking about the MONEY game.  You know game 7.  The big enchilada.  The real deal.  When Yao disappeared on the boards and had more turnovers than rebounds.  But then your argument falls flat when we look at that game.  And you keep focusing on scoring...the game involves than scoring.  Go back and read the Barry vs Finley posts. 
  I thought we were talking about the series.  But its a good way to sweep GM 3 under the rug.

lurker
Quote
IMO the only "credit" Utah sjould get for the first round is playing with more intensity in game 7 on the road.  Houston should have been fired up to claim victory at home but the Jazz were more determined. 

 :o :o :o

We are now giving credit to star players for a few good games in the playoffs and ignoring choking at the end of the series?  Wait, you are the same guy who says Manu has an awesome series when he completely disappears for games at a time.  My bad  ;D

Reality in the series he did not play well.  That is part of the reason why they are fishing.    The last 3 games of the series,  important games obviously, he played very average.  There is no getting around that.  As an all-star in this league, the next coming of Shaq, and the 2nd best player on this team he should have played ALOT better.  You were wrong about him.  He is a 2nd tier player, like a Caron Butler, with the Sternfish marketing team behind him making him seem more then he is.

And Riverdance...you still have not explained how Van Gundy is the reason why Yao can't block more shots or get more rebounds in CRITICAL playoff games.
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Offline Reality

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B-Rad you and lurker have been squaking about Yaos last 3 games, and i concur they fell short.
So yes let us compare.
Yao Ming age 26 just ousted by Utah.  (Make sure you continue to ignore Hou Grutys up 2-0 and Yaos dominant game in Gm 3, that's Yaos fault.)

Shaq age 27 1999 playoffs Gm 2 of what would be a 4-0 skunkin by Timmy Dunkar and the Spurs.
34 minutes, 16 points 8 boards.  All ears B-Rad.

Gruntys slow it down no ball movement style is what costs Yao many more possessions, specifically it fails to utlilze his fantastic jump shooting ability for a 7'6" person.  As with the Spurs, the times Van PopaGundy has opened up the Hou offense, the wins came.  More possessions does equal many more rebound possibilites for Yao.

Offline westkoast

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B-Rad you and lurker have been squaking about Yaos last 3 games, and i concur they fell short.
So yes let us compare.
Yao Ming age 26 just ousted by Utah.  (Make sure you continue to ignore Hou Grutys up 2-0 and Yaos dominant game in Gm 3, that's Yaos fault.)

You don't want us to 'squak' about the last 3 games but you want to squak about ONE game?

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Shaq age 27 1999 playoffs Gm 2 of what would be a 4-0 skunkin by Timmy Dunkar and the Spurs.
34 minutes, 16 points 8 boards.  All ears B-Rad.

Um Reality, Shaq had already led a team to the finals then.  Yao has never made it past the second round.   Shaq also didn't have the same caliber player that Yao has in Tracy Mcgrady that year either.  Kobe then was not at the level T-Mac is now and he had a hand injury that season.   Second, if we want to place blame on coaches I think it is pretty apparent that year you are speaking of had a similar problem and that is why Phil Jackson took over the following year.

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Gruntys slow it down no ball movement style is what costs Yao many more possessions, specifically it fails to utlilze his fantastic jump shooting ability for a 7'6" person.  As with the Spurs, the times Van PopaGundy has opened up the Hou offense, the wins came.  More possessions does equal many more rebound possibilites for Yao.


1) What does a slower, half court style have to do with not blocking shots and getting rebounds?  To me it sounds like if they don't run and gun he should have more energy to do those things.

2) Why would you want a 7'6 guy shooting jump shots?

3) Did you know players can open up the floor themselves?  Sorry but blaming Van Gundy because you don't want to admit you are wrong is pathetic.  In your own words 'grow some'

4) When are you going to stop dancing around the below average amount of rebounds and blocks for Yao in the last 3 games of the series?  Admit he had a poor series.  When his squad needed him to pull out a victory he was not there for them.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 06:28:12 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Shaq age 27 1999 playoffs Gm 2 of what would be a 4-0 skunkin by Timmy Dunkar and the Spurs.
34 minutes, 16 points 8 boards.  All ears B-Rad.

Shaq in 99 had DRob guarding him with TD always there for help defense, what two monsters on defense were paying attention to Yao?

Apples and Oranges, then again you wouldn't know about SA defense on Shaq from the box scores.
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Offline westkoast

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Shaq age 27 1999 playoffs Gm 2 of what would be a 4-0 skunkin by Timmy Dunkar and the Spurs.
34 minutes, 16 points 8 boards.  All ears B-Rad.

Shaq in 99 had DRob guarding him with TD always there for help defense, what two monsters on defense were paying attention to Yao?

Apples and Oranges, then again you wouldn't know about SA defense on Shaq from the box scores.

Any true fan would know that AK and Boozer are 3x the defenders D-Rob and Tim Duncan were then.
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Offline msc

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Yao is horrible.

If you're almost 8 feet tall you should be averaging 6 blocks per quarter.  AK-47 is like half his size and practically averages that  ;D 


Offline Reality

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And I thought we were talking about the MONEY game.  You know game 7.  The big enchilada.  The real deal.  When Yao disappeared on the boards and had more turnovers than rebounds.  But then your argument falls flat when we look at that game.  And you keep focusing on scoring...the game involves than scoring.  
Gm 7 Lakers vs Phoenix 2006 playoffs.  Phx 121 Lakers 90
Kobe 24 pts 4 rebs 1 assist 0 steals.
Can't wait to hear the TagTeam guys response!
I love it when this happens!