Author Topic: Poor Livingston  (Read 1153 times)

Offline Reality

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Poor Livingston
« on: February 28, 2007, 12:44:23 AM »
I don't want to see the injury play again. 
Talk is 8-12 months or even longer.
Realistically will never be the same again.


Offline westkoast

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Re: Poor Livingston
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 11:46:57 AM »
I didn't even notice exactly how he got hurt.  They only played the clip once when I was at the gym yesterday.  Cannot believe how bad of an injury it was considering it looked like a somewhat routine play.  Feel bad for the Clips and even moreso for Shaun himself.  He could be Grant Hill status from here on out.  The Clippers probably wish they dealt him now though.....

Guess the question is...Can Sam I am hold up for the rest of the season since they miss such an importat piece?  My answer is not a chance.  I am sure they will be going after someone in the off-season.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 11:49:20 AM by westkoast »
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Offline Skandery

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Dan Wetzel's Take
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2007, 05:19:31 PM »
For as long as I can remember I've always carried the go-to-school torch.  Then about 2 years ago, the foundation in my beliefs started cracking as I saw LeBron James (a guy I was 90% sure was overrated) dance circles around the NBA opposition at the tender age of 19; as I saw Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, and Amare Stoudemire develop into bona-fide, every year All-Star Superstars; as I see Dwight Howard continuing that legacy.  This Livingston freak injury has shattered that entire belief system and you can place me firmly into the "David Stern is a short-sighted fool for implementing this ridiculous age limit".  On this issue I will go back and forth no more.  Wetzel has put it a little more eloquently...
=====================================================================================================

Age defiance
 
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
February 28, 2007


It was gruesome and grotesque and almost impossible to forget – Shaun Livingston, his left knee virtually torn in half, crumpled and writhing in pain Tuesday.

There is virtually nothing positive that can come from a potential career-ending injury to the likable, determined Los Angeles Clippers point guard.

Yet perhaps Livingston can serve as a reminder to the supposedly sound, wise voices who always are telling these young athletes about the benefits of staying one more year in college, the ones defending the NBA's ridiculous age limit, the ones more concerned about their own entertainment or profit than the fact that even the brightest of basketball futures rides on a single, skinny ligament.

Because while the NBA's window of opportunity closes, colleges never do. Because while you might get just one shot at draft day millions, an education is there forever. 
 
If the TV announcers and establishment defenders, when imploring the stay in school mantra, always are going to bring up some bust from past – are we still talking about Korleone Young? – then let Livingston serve as the unfortunate (yet fortunate) poster child for the other side, the take the money and run route.

He turned down a scholarship to Duke in 2004, choosing at age 18 to jump to the NBA where his fabulous yet fragile body was drafted fourth by the Clippers. He had a contract that guaranteed him more than $10 million in salary even before Reebok signed him to an endorsement deal worth millions more. The kid from Peoria, Ill., instantaneously was set for life.

Yet there still were those who cried he should have gone to college. And if he had they'd have begged him to stay and play the same way they do right now with Kevin Durant and Greg Oden.

But it seems Livingston never was meant to last. The body that allowed him that insane crossover at 6-foot-7 always was cursed. In three seasons in the NBA he's been a hobbled medical mess – dislocated right knee, sprained right ankle, torn cartilage in his right shoulder, a stress reaction in his lower back.

Then came Tuesday, when the knee just ripped apart while he went for a simple layup. He tore his anterior cruciate ligament, posterior cruciate ligament, medial collateral ligament and lateral meniscus. It is a wonder the thing stayed on.

“It's probably the most serious injury you can have to the knee," Clippers physician Tony Daly told reporters. "He might miss all of next year. It's a freak accident, that's for sure.”

The freak part was there was no contact to set off the injury. There was no awkward cut on the floor. There was so reason for it to happen. This, essentially, was what the 21-year-old's knee was destined to do. This is what his body was about.

And so all Livingston can do is rehab, pray and rest assured that he not only made the wisest choice of his life when he jumped to the league but also that David Stern hadn't decided that his marketing plans were more important than Livingston's individual rights.

Had Livingston gone to college, he never would have gotten out, each injury serving as a red flag to the NBA that would have kept him from being drafted. And eventually Livingston's knee was destined to fail him. It just would have been in Cameron Indoor rather than the Staples Center.

Instead he got when the getting was possible, and smart, savvy and mature, he then protected his money. One of his business advisors said Wednesday that Livingston has perhaps $6 million in bank. He is set to earn additional NBA and shoe company millions while he rehabs over at least the next eight to 12 months.

He probably will play again. But even if he doesn't, even this is a worst-case scenario and he never sees another minute in the NBA, he forever has changed the economic realities of his family.

And, of course, that worst case would include the chance to do what so many think is the best case to begin with – go to college. Livingston still can get all the education the world can offer because the SAT doesn't care much about lateral quickness.

So maybe you should hear about Shaun Livingston when the college announcers are barking their self-serving slop about how the NBA's age minimum is such a great thing for these young stars, for the game. Or how another year is always the good, safe option.

The age rule may be good for a lot of people, but college players aren't among them. Having institutions take the freedom of choice away from individuals never can be a positive.

Especially when the risks are so great, the money so grand and a college education always, eventually, a possibility.
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Offline Reality

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Re: Poor Livingston
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2007, 05:40:36 PM »
Good article.
I guess "Poor Livingston" should be thought of strictly in terms of what could have been playingwise.

Compare what happened to Livingston to some hardworking schmoe who gets hurt on the job and then stiffed, wow.
6 million + free medical + + + + should ease his pain.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Poor Livingston
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2007, 10:03:34 PM »
I still don't see how Shaun is the poster boy for the other side....

The guy has plenty of money to go back to college.  Enough to go on a 10 year plan at USC doing nothing but talking to girls and drinking beer.  It is not like he is blocked from going back to college.  While a scholarship is nice cuz the education is free...he still has enough money to pay for it.

While I agree it's better to go to college for more reasons then 'you cannot be in the NBA forever' (you know like having more SOCIAL development before you get thrust into stardom/money..that's another thread tho) I only agree if they bust real quick.  Even if they play for a few years they make more then enough money to actually go to college anyways.  One would argue that it would be better that he has to go back because he will focus in on school instead of basketball knowing he won't be playing.  A prof once told me he believes all college students should have to go work for a year in the real world in some boring office job or tough manual labor so they will better appreciate what a higher education allows you to do career wise.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Poor Livingston
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2007, 10:33:34 AM »
I still don't see how Shaun is the poster boy for the other side....

The guy has plenty of money to go back to college.  Enough to go on a 10 year plan at USC doing nothing but talking to girls and drinking beer.  It is not like he is blocked from going back to college.  While a scholarship is nice cuz the education is free...he still has enough money to pay for it.

While I agree it's better to go to college for more reasons then 'you cannot be in the NBA forever' (you know like having more SOCIAL development before you get thrust into stardom/money..that's another thread tho) I only agree if they bust real quick.  Even if they play for a few years they make more then enough money to actually go to college anyways.  One would argue that it would be better that he has to go back because he will focus in on school instead of basketball knowing he won't be playing.  A prof once told me he believes all college students should have to go work for a year in the real world in some boring office job or tough manual labor so they will better appreciate what a higher education allows you to do career wise.

You are saying the same thing.  Livingston is the poster child for "cash in when you can" because school is always there. 

And I have said the same thing as your prof for years...a couple years of hard manual labor sure makes one appreciate the advantages a college education can give you.  Problem is I couldn't apply that to my own kids.  My wife & I both worked our way thru college (while raising a family) so we had a desire to make it possible for our kids to skip that "fun" stuff.  But making them appreciate it has been tough.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Poor Livingston
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2007, 11:56:06 AM »
I still don't see how Shaun is the poster boy for the other side....

The guy has plenty of money to go back to college.  Enough to go on a 10 year plan at USC doing nothing but talking to girls and drinking beer.  It is not like he is blocked from going back to college.  While a scholarship is nice cuz the education is free...he still has enough money to pay for it.

While I agree it's better to go to college for more reasons then 'you cannot be in the NBA forever' (you know like having more SOCIAL development before you get thrust into stardom/money..that's another thread tho) I only agree if they bust real quick.  Even if they play for a few years they make more then enough money to actually go to college anyways.  One would argue that it would be better that he has to go back because he will focus in on school instead of basketball knowing he won't be playing.  A prof once told me he believes all college students should have to go work for a year in the real world in some boring office job or tough manual labor so they will better appreciate what a higher education allows you to do career wise.

You are saying the same thing.  Livingston is the poster child for "cash in when you can" because school is always there. 

And I have said the same thing as your prof for years...a couple years of hard manual labor sure makes one appreciate the advantages a college education can give you.  Problem is I couldn't apply that to my own kids.  My wife & I both worked our way thru college (while raising a family) so we had a desire to make it possible for our kids to skip that "fun" stuff.  But making them appreciate it has been tough.

The way I took it was Livingston is the poster child for 'don't cash in and stay in school' POV.    I am saying he is the poster child for 'cash in when you can cuz you can always go back anyways'  College's never close.  The doors to the NBA do all the time.

I think the whole age thing has alot to do with it.  If a child at 18 goes straight into college they have a much different mentality then say if they were 20-21-22.  Although I guess that is a blanket statement, I have friends who are in their late 20s still acting like they are 15 year olds in HS lol
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