Author Topic: Pacers in bar fight....again.  (Read 3816 times)

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Pacers in bar fight....again.
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2007, 10:23:11 AM »

Or one might say that James was the best ball handler on the floor, and the coaching staff directed him to initiate the offense, which is why he had the ball 40 times.  Meanwhile Joe has the ball 5 times because he's a back to the basket player who can't handle the ball to save his life.


And one would be wrong.

On practically everything, actually.

And even in the case when the coaching staff directs a player to initiate an offense, it is NEVER a good thing when the initiator calls his own number frequently - which is the reason one would refer to James as selfish.
Joe

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Offline msc

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Re: Pacers in bar fight....again.
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2007, 12:20:03 PM »
I disagree.   I think it is a good thing when James is one of the most prolific offensive players in the game.  It was a good thing for the three years in a row they won the Championship.  I think the only year one can really call Kobe selfish was last year.  Even then, Phil specifically asked Kobe to carry the team as many of the young guys weren't up to speed on the triangle.   

Your spin is just as jaded to one side as mine was, Joe.  First off your data sample is too small, but let's assume we're looking at one game with 40 touches vs. 5 touches.  How many of those 40 touches did James pass to another teammate, who in turn passed it directly to the low block for a score?  In hockey James would have an assist, obviously not the case in the NBA.  However, the point stands that James in that instance did initiate the offense but didn't get an assist for it.  This example is very common in the triangle for the simple fact that the players often make two passes to get it in to the low post; e.g. Kobe passes from the top of the 3-pt line to Fox who recieves the pass in the mid way between the top of  the 3pt line and the baseline and makes a quick entry in to Shaq in the low post.  This is another possession where Kobe initiated the offense and doesn't get the assist.  BTW, James (Kobe) happens to not only be the primary ball handler on the floor, but also one of the two top scoring options on the floor.  How are his ratio of passes to touches not going to be skewed in that direction?  He's not John Stockton, or Steve Nash, he's not a natural distributor, he's a natural scorer who's learned and continues to learn to distribute.  Regardless, the coaching staff, the team, and the fans want and need James to score for the team to be successful. 

 



Offline msc

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Re: Pacers in bar fight....again.
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2007, 03:03:58 PM »

And even in the case when the coaching staff directs a player to initiate an offense, it is NEVER a good thing when the initiator calls his own number frequently - which is the reason one would refer to James as selfish.

BTW, I can think of two players in recent history with a combined nine championships where it WAS a very good thing.




Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Pacers in bar fight....again.
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2007, 04:46:59 PM »
msc,

Actually, you'd better stick to arguing Kobe.

James is a real player - a teammate of Skander's and mine in the Columbia City League - and he's the most greedy player I've ever seen - including folks like Iverson and Kobe on their WORST of days.  We hate him.  He's taken a potential championship team, and carried them to a whopping 1-8 (soon to be 1-9) record.  We picked him up at the recommendation of one of the other players on the team...a player who has shown up an only one game.

Worst waste of talent I've ever seen.
Joe

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Offline msc

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Re: Pacers in bar fight....again.
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2007, 05:00:33 PM »
msc,

Actually, you'd better stick to arguing Kobe.

James is a real player - a teammate of Skander's and mine in the Columbia City League - and he's the most greedy player I've ever seen - including folks like Iverson and Kobe on their WORST of days.  We hate him.  He's taken a potential championship team, and carried them to a whopping 1-8 (soon to be 1-9) record.  We picked him up at the recommendation of one of the other players on the team...a player who has shown up an only one game.

Worst waste of talent I've ever seen.

I thought we were arguing Kobe?  I thought you were using "James" as metaphorical Kobe, weren't you? 

Anyway, I'd rather get back over to the music/instrument thread  :D  I saw you play keys and like REO Speedwagon.  I always admired the way the guitar player and keyboard player would seamlessly intertwine (if that's even a word) their solos with each other like in "Roll with the Changes".  Brilliant, IMO and something you don't hear often enough. 

I'm derailing every thread now, I apologize and better get back to work.