Kobes cheapshot earns suspension

[Reality]

westkoast

Ahh if only the hamster in your head would run a little faster you would realize that this is all based on the intention of hurting another player!    

Twisty,
intention has nothing to do with the rule.
Grasp for another straw. 

[Reality]

So Manu got a bloody nose.  It happens.  Kobe did make contact with his face, but it wasn't intentional.  It happens in every sport.  I've gotten bloody noses playing basketball and seen countless.  Big whoop.  This never would have been a suspension in years past.  The league has turned in to a bunch of hyper-sensitive control freaks.  Maybe rightfully so considering the criminal element in the NBA these days.  It's unfortunate. 

Kobe is the most polarizing athlete of his time.  It has clearly translated from the fan base to the league, to the officials.  He's brought a lot of it on himself due to his cockiness and attitude.  I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears here, but Phil is right in that Kobe is not getting the premier player treatment that he deserves.  Just watching Wade get every whistle when he's barely touched, while Kobe would go down and get mugged by three Heat players in the MLK day game was a prime example of who the new golden child is and who's in the dog house with the refs these days. 

I'm not complaining though. The Lakers are playing team ball and they're much more fun to watch now, IMO, then they've been in quite sometime regardless of their record.  This BS suspension will only serve to continue to solidify a team that has already grown close.  I love it, and I say bring it on!

roles were reversed, and you would call the suspension on GNob for cheapshotting Kobe b.s.?

[westkoast]

So Manu got a bloody nose.  It happens.  Kobe did make contact with his face, but it wasn't intentional.  It happens in every sport.  I've gotten bloody noses playing basketball and seen countless.  Big whoop.  This never would have been a suspension in years past.  The league has turned in to a bunch of hyper-sensitive control freaks.  Maybe rightfully so considering the criminal element in the NBA these days.  It's unfortunate. 

Kobe is the most polarizing athlete of his time.  It has clearly translated from the fan base to the league, to the officials.  He's brought a lot of it on himself due to his cockiness and attitude.  I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears here, but Phil is right in that Kobe is not getting the premier player treatment that he deserves.  Just watching Wade get every whistle when he's barely touched, while Kobe would go down and get mugged by three Heat players in the MLK day game was a prime example of who the new golden child is and who's in the dog house with the refs these days. 

I'm not complaining though. The Lakers are playing team ball and they're much more fun to watch now, IMO, then they've been in quite sometime regardless of their record.  This BS suspension will only serve to continue to solidify a team that has already grown close.  I love it, and I say bring it on!

roles were reversed, and you would call the suspension on GNob for cheapshotting Kobe b.s.?

No.  You know why?  Because it wasn't intentional.   Nor would I go into full blown cry baby mode like you were.  Let's play that game tho....if roles were reversed and Kobe layed on the ground rolling around for 5 minutes like Mike Tyson hit him with an uppercut, would you carefully ignore the obvious over exaggeration?

Reality, the rule has everything to do with being intentional.  If it wasn't anytime someone was nailed with a flying arm/elbow they would be suspended.  You think this is the first time someone has been wacked across the face by an arm?!   What's up with ya hamster today?  He is trotting!  Not enough juicing?

[Lurker]

I am sorry but the full blown BULLCRAP about Manu faking after a hit across the bridge of the nose stinks worse than Reality's spins.  If that is the basis for calling it a bad suspension then I may have to tajke another hiatus from this board.  I thought that with a couple exceptions that I was discussing basketball with intelligent fans.

[Randy]

Did Kobe intentionally hit Manu in the face?  No.

Did he hit Manu in the face?  Yes.

Why did he hit Manu in the face?  To try and draw a foul -- most players in the NBA do that -- Manu included.

Did Kobe deserve to be suspended?  I don't think so but it's fine -- as long as they start suspending players ANY time they flail their arms to create contact.  There seems to be a huge uproar because of the damage that occured to Manu.  I don't know anyone (well, probably Reality) who wants to see a player injured -- I know I don't.  However, I've gotten contact as bad as this just from taking a charge -- it wasn't that it was a bad hit and it certainly wasn't intentional -- it was just how the contact was made.  I don't think that we need to look at the injury in determining whether a suspension is merited -- if that's the case then so does Bowen every time he plants his feet underneath a jumpshooter -- which is more dangerous?

Manu and Kobe collided -- Manu tried to go for the block and failed -- he ended up almost exactly where Kobe was and sure, Kobe tried to pick up the foul as well.  To say that this is intentional is unbelievable.  How many times has Kobe elbowed a person in such a way?  He has certainly tried to draw contact -- I guess we start suspending everyone who tries to draw contact?

By-the-way, Lurker, I don't think anything stinks worse than Reality's spins -- in fact, I imagine that there are some posters on here who are reacting to Reality AND his spins.  I know I tire of them -- it's why I visit this board so infrequently these days -- back in the days of the old board, we used to police the board together and not allow this kind of crap over and over and over again!  I guess it's why this board gets old for me!

[Laker Fan]

Did Kobe intentionally hit Manu in the face?  No.

By-the-way, Lurker, I don't think anything stinks worse than Reality's spins -- in fact, I imagine that there are some posters on here who are reacting to Reality AND his spins.  I know I tire of them -- it's why I visit this board so infrequently these days -- back in the days of the old board, we used to police the board together and not allow this kind of crap over and over and over again!  I guess it's why this board gets old for me!

Touche' Randy

[msc]

I am sorry but the full blown BULLCRAP about Manu faking after a hit across the bridge of the nose stinks worse than Reality's spins.  If that is the basis for calling it a bad suspension then I may have to tajke another hiatus from this board.  I thought that with a couple exceptions that I was discussing basketball with intelligent fans.

Lurker, I didn't say he faked it.  I said he rolled around on the floor like a girl for 5 mins.  There is a difference in faking and exaggerating.  Does it sting like hell to get popped in the nose?  Yes.  Does Manu have a well documented history of exaggeration?  Yes. 

He got stung in the nose but you would have thought his arm got caught in a wood chopper by his reaction.  All I’m saying is that maybe his reaction (or over-reaction) had something to do with the league’s decision to suspend Kobe.

[msc]

roles were reversed, and you would call the suspension on GNob for cheapshotting Kobe b.s.?

Yes, I would call it bs because it would be.  I know this is hard for you to believe, but not all of us are completely jaded when we watch the games.  I like Manu as a player and a person and it's unfortunate that he took one in the beak, but it was nothing more than an inadvertent elbow.  It's part of the game, it happens.  I'd call it the exact same way if the roll was reversed. 

[westkoast]

I am sorry but the full blown BULLCRAP about Manu faking after a hit across the bridge of the nose stinks worse than Reality's spins.  If that is the basis for calling it a bad suspension then I may have to tajke another hiatus from this board.  I thought that with a couple exceptions that I was discussing basketball with intelligent fans.

I didn't say he faked it, he certainly did not.   I don't think you can fake blood.   Over exaggerate?  I think so.  He rolled around on the ground for quite a while for cutting up his lip and getting a bloody nose.  You would think he tore a muscle or broke a bone with the way he was acting.   I took quite a knee to the face just 3 weeks ago on the court, thought I broke my nose, but did not roll around for a few minutes like that.  He could have got up alot quicker then that considering how much he gets hit going to the rim.  When Kobe hit whats-his-name intentionally in the face with an elbow right to the jaw he got up quicker then Manu did and I think he was hit with alot more force.

The basis for calling it a bad suspension is that it wasn't intentional.  Pop seems to agree with that also as he commented on it today.

[Lurker]

Manu and Kobe collided -- Manu tried to go for the block and failed -- he ended up almost exactly where Kobe was and sure, Kobe tried to pick up the foul as well.  To say that this is intentional is unbelievable.  How many times has Kobe elbowed a person in such a way?  He has certainly tried to draw contact -- I guess we start suspending everyone who tries to draw contact?

Did you actually see the play?  There was no "collision" except for Kobe's arm on Manu's face.  Manu got a clean block on the ball with no body contact.  If there would have been contact then Kobe's arm should have gone in the opposite direction...away from the hit.  Instead his arm flew out & down trying to hit whoever blocked his shot from the side.



msc...faked it or exaggerated it...either way is BULLCRAP.  Sorry excuse for kissing your boy's balls.  And maybe we should cue up the tape and see if that 5 minutes was really that long or just YOUR exaggeration to make Kobe look better.

[westkoast]

Manu and Kobe collided -- Manu tried to go for the block and failed -- he ended up almost exactly where Kobe was and sure, Kobe tried to pick up the foul as well.  To say that this is intentional is unbelievable.  How many times has Kobe elbowed a person in such a way?  He has certainly tried to draw contact -- I guess we start suspending everyone who tries to draw contact?

Did you actually see the play?  There was no "collision" except for Kobe's arm on Manu's face.  Manu got a clean block on the ball with no body contact.  If there would have been contact then Kobe's arm should have gone in the opposite direction...away from the hit.  Instead his arm flew out & down trying to hit whoever blocked his shot from the side.



msc...faked it or exaggerated it...either way is BULLCRAP.  Sorry excuse for kissing your boy's balls.  And maybe we should cue up the tape and see if that 5 minutes was really that long or just YOUR exaggeration to make Kobe look better.

If it's not a stretch that Kobe hit him so hard he had to roll around then why is it a stretch to think he acted like it hurt a little more then it did?  Honestly Lurker, I do not think you can get enough force mid air, after pulling up for a jump shot, to nail someone THAT bad to where he has to lay on the ground like that.  The same thing happend to whats-his-name on the Grizz and he got up pretty quick.  That elbow was full force into his chin.

After saying that Kobe did not intentionally hit Manu on the first page you are turning around and saying "Instead his arm flew out & down trying to hit whomever blocked his shot" ?

Here is the video btw....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7TGrVIu3o

[msc]

msc...faked it or exaggerated it...either way is BULLCRAP.  Sorry excuse for kissing your boy's balls.  And maybe we should cue up the tape and see if that 5 minutes was really that long or just YOUR exaggeration to make Kobe look better.

Lurker, I apologize if I struck a nerve, that wasn't my intention.  Sure, I'm exaggerating a tad to make my point (w/the 5mins).  I agree that Manu took a decent shot from Kobe, although I obviously don't believe it was intentional on Kobe's part. 

The problem for guys who cry wolf all the time like Manu, Fisher, Vlade, etc. is that when you spend so much time crying wolf people are going to be skeptical when you really are hurt.  This is something that I would think most intelligent fans who've watched a lot of NBA games would agree on. 

Some guys are tough as nails and take brutal hits and bounce right back up and run down the court.  AI comes to mind in this category.  Manu grew up playing soccer where you are trained to fake injuries in an effort to gain an advantage.  Anyone who's watched him play in the NBA understands he uses this strategy with regularity.  So my point was/is that if Kobe had elbowed AI and AI popped back up and ran down the court, I don't think there would have been a suspension.  Manu, clearly was hurt, but didn't exactly try to shrug it off and as a result I think it made it look worse in the leagues eyes.  That is my opinion and I don’t think having it makes me an unintelligent fan.  Granted, I might not be a rocket scientist  but I have played and watched a lot of basketball. 

[Lurker]

Here is my original post.

I think that Kobe's arm flail was not natural...even trying to draw a foul.  His arm was straight up releasing the ball and then came down sideways.  Not a natural movement even if trying to draw a foul.  Was he intentionally trying to hurt Ginobili?  Of course not.  IMO he wasn't even necessarily trying to hit him.  It just happened which is why I didn't believe a suspension was warranted.

Having watched the video a few more times I want to clarify my initial position.  Kobe did not intentionally hit Manu.  And it also was not contact to draw a foul.  Watch Kobe's eyes.  He follows the ball and the arm swing is a reaction as he is coming down towards the ball.  The arm movement is a natural movement to maintain balance as you are moving towards the ball quickly...even if your feet are on the ground.  No suspension is warranted.  Comparable play would be elbows under the boards...happens at least once a week to someone in the league.

edit: additional proof Kobe was after ball is that he tried to put up another shot.  also Manu stays on the floor a while because it was the end of the game, both teams went to their benches and the trainer attended to him there.  end edit:


msc...I may have over reacted but to blow off a shot to the head because the player "milks" the ref's attention goes too far.

[msc]

^^Lurker, fair enough.  And for the record I agree with your above analysis of the incident 100%. 

[jn]

I'm as shocked as Kobe that he got a suspension for this.  Just a thought here but you wonder if Kobe's rep for body control hurt him here.  If, say, Jason Collins or Mark Madsen catches someone with a loose elbow like this it's chalked up as inadvertent because, as Lurker mentioned, it's part of trying to maintain balance.  When Kobe, mister hang and contort with amazing balance, hits someone in this fashion it's hard to think that maybe he was just having a mildly spastic moment.