Lakers -- are they better then the Spurs?

[WayOutWest]

For gawds sake please don't tell me W.O.W. and company are going to argue the Lakers have a better roster.

Someone please give Reality directions to the Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

[Reality]

For gawds sake please don't tell me W.O.W. and company are going to argue the Lakers have a better roster.

Someone please give Reality directions to the Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

Oh i think the whole board knows where that is.  Close proximity to Staples Center.

[westkoast]

westkoast Hay it's only fair.  If someone was to say Fabs scored 5 points instead of he usual 7 game changing average you'd be crying foul.  The only thing we ask is not to make up words.  You've already made up a legacy for certain players so stick with that.

Koast you are trying to bust my balls over nothing.  And I'm not trying to bust yours, altho it may seem that way.  Spurs up 20 after 3, up 22 after 3, same thing.  Point was a Poppy team got beat by Utah the night or two before and a Phil 2006-7 team runs them by 30.  Who has the better roster.  For gawds sake please don't tell me W.O.W. and company are going to argue the Lakers have a better roster.  Spurs do by far.  Yet Phil does much more with much less. 

*I realize the "much" part is closing rapidly.  Yet another superiority of Phil over Poppy.  Look what Philly is doing with Bynum.  Compare what Pop-A-Repress is doing with Elson.  JoeV feel free to back me.  Lurker while we don't always agree on Pop, surely you must be in my corner on this one. 

This is a retarded questions and that is why no one is answering it.  Would you also like to know what the color of the sky is?

IMO Phil is a better coach then Pop BUT I would not blame Pop for the fact Utah was tired the next day when the Lakers played them.  Also, Phil and Pop had nothing to do with Kobe ripping the heart out of Utah in that 3rd quarter. 

The Jazz have came back in 4-5 games from a large hole and ended up winning.  Another reason for the loss is they just didn't have enough energy to go at that huge lead going into the final quarter.  The activity just was not there.

[Joe Vancil]

westkoast,

Utah's problem against the Lakers wasn't the third quarter.  It was the *FIRST* quarter.  Utah's offense, when it comes out flat, takes a TON of energy to get jump-started.  When that happens in a back-to-back when you've burned a ton of energy to make a come-back, you know the result is going to be an ugly beating.  I could have told you that going in to the Laker game.  It didn't have to be the Lakers;  the Knicks, Bobcats, or Grizzlies would have done the same thing.

Reality,

     Comparing Francisco Elson to Andrew Bynum is ridiculous.  Bynum is a promising young player;  Elson is a 4th year player, 29-year-old player hoping to stick around long enough to be called a "journeyman," and if he has a good year somewhere along the way, he might put up numbers in the realm of Rasho Nesterovic in 2002-2003.  Give Bynum this year, and a maximum of two more, and he'll be considered a flop if he matches Nesterovic/2003.

[westkoast]

westkoast,

Utah's problem against the Lakers wasn't the third quarter.  It was the *FIRST* quarter.  Utah's offense, when it comes out flat, takes a TON of energy to get jump-started.  When that happens in a back-to-back when you've burned a ton of energy to make a come-back, you know the result is going to be an ugly beating.  I could have told you that going in to the Laker game.  It didn't have to be the Lakers;  the Knicks, Bobcats, or Grizzlies would have done the same thing.

Reality,

     Comparing Francisco Elson to Andrew Bynum is ridiculous.  Bynum is a promising young player;  Elson is a 4th year player, 29-year-old player hoping to stick around long enough to be called a "journeyman," and if he has a good year somewhere along the way, he might put up numbers in the realm of Rasho Nesterovic in 2002-2003.  Give Bynum this year, and a maximum of two more, and he'll be considered a flop if he matches Nesterovic/2003.

Part of my point was it was a back to back in which the Jazz just beat a very talented Spurs team.  I think that played a factor in the game and mentioned it the morning of.  You are right it could have been any team that pounded them.  At the same time they have battled back to win a few games this season when down in a hole due to solid defense.  That was something alot different from the jump as they were just not playing as hard as I've seen them play this year.    IMO they could have came back if they didn't get put into a 20 point hole in that 3rd quarter.   To me they didn't have energy after that and did not get the easy layups from strong cuts that started off the last game so well for them.  Honestly I was a bit worried sitting there watching them warm up before the game and every single shot was going in.

[Joe Vancil]

westkoast,

Utah's back-to-back results:

Phoenix - Utah won on a fourth quarter come-back, jumped on Golden State immediately.

Boston - Utah won when leading at the end of 2nd and 3rd quarters, allowed Milwaukee to come back, but won by two (Deron Williams to Matt Harpring, with Redd missing a 3-pointer that would have given him *60*).

Seattle - Utah led at the end of each of the four quarters, came back against Phoenix, forced overtime, and won.

LA Lakers - Utah came back to win in the fourth quarter, and got jumped on by Golden State and lost.

San An - Utah came back in the fourth, fell short of hanging with the Lakers in the first quarter, and got jumped on by the Lakers in the second quarter.

Again - Utah makes comebacks, but *NOT* when coming back in the game before *AND* starting off slow in the second game.  I recognize the pattern from 1997-98 and the strike season.  Sloan's starters burn their energy in the fourth of the previous game, and come out flat - and hope the reserves can get them back into it.  If the reserves do get them back into the game, the starters either come out flat in the second half and end up losing in the closing minutes - exhausted - or they come out strong, and build a lead that they loosely sustain in the closing minutes.  Overtime will favor the Jazz based on execution.

[Lurker]

Lurker while we don't always agree on Pop, surely you must be in my corner on this one. 

Nope.  No way.  Elson deserves his limited minutes until the cement blocks that masquerade as his hands go away.  And despite the deep love all things Lakers have for Fabs; he is the best fit at center for the Spurs.  He does the little things very well...watch his picks, boxing out, passing and positional defense.  But then since it isn't measurable of course he must not be a solid player.

[WayOutWest]

...a solid player.

There IS hope!

Since Flabs put on a Spurs uniform I was told to expect the next Kevin Garnett.  Glad to see expectations have been realistically lowered.

[Lurker]

Since Flabs put on a Spurs uniform I was told to expect the next Kevin Garnett. 

If you are that gullible then I have a couple of bridges that I can sell you.  Just let me know.

[Reality]

Lurker while we don't always agree on Pop, surely you must be in my corner on this one. 

Nope.  No way.  Elson deserves his limited minutes until the cement blocks that masquerade as his hands go away.  And despite the deep love all things Lakers have for Fabs; he is the best fit at center for the Spurs.  He does the little things very well...watch his picks, boxing out, passing and positional defense.  But then since it isn't measurable of course he must not be a solid player.

Joe and Lurker,
Spurs are 6-0 in games where Elson gets 20+.  Including a punking of Dallas by 20 pts.
3 of the 5 Spurs losses are when Pop-A-Cement has kept him glued to the bench for an average of 8 min. 

Little things.  Elson D's the paint much better then Fabs.  Presents shot block challenge.  Fabs has been good, but he has also completely disappeared at times.  Pop per usual is the Non Adjustment King.

[Joe Vancil]

Reality,

     Actually, it's 5-0, and that's 20 MINUTES, not 20 points.  Let's look at those games, shall we?

     Victory over Dallas, 97-91.  That's solid.  12-6 isn't bad.  Now, of course, you're on here saying that Oberto looks good guarding Nowitzki.  So - who do you want in the line-up - Elson or Oberto?  'cause Duncan is going to be out there.

     Victory over Toronto, 103-94.  6 points, 8 boards.  Most of the game, Toronto went with their small line-up.

     Victory over New York, 105-93.  *I* could start at center and out-rebound Eddy Curry.  Oops.  Elson was out-rebounded by Eddy Curry 11 to 4.  4 points - on four free throws and 0-3 from the field - and four rebounds against the Knicks.  Why were they playing him, exactly?  Oh.  Because Oberto fouled out.

     Victory over New York, 100-92.  9 points, 9 boards - and 5 turnovers.  Sounds like we've got a real stud on our hands.

     Victory over Houston, 92-84.  12-7 is a solid game.  Probably saw his time because Oberto picked up 4 fouls in 5 minutes.

     So, essentially, what you're saying is, "If one of our stiffs gets major minutes, we'll win the game."  Given that San An's record is 12-5.  You can probably look on the end of the bench of many teams, and say something like, "If Pat Garrity gets major minutes, Orlando wins in a blow-out."  Did you ever consider the reason the Elson got the minutes he got is because the outcome of the game wasn't in danger?

[Reality]

Actually, it's 5-0, and that's 20 MINUTES, not 20 points.  Let's look at those games, shall we?

Actually its 6-0, add Miami after Hou.  20 minutes is what I was posting, i wasn't inferring 20 pts, he's never Spured that.

Victory over Dallas, 97-91.  That's solid.  12-6 isn't bad.  Now, of course, you're on here saying that Oberto looks good guarding Nowitzki.  So - who do you want in the line-up - Elson or Oberto?  'cause Duncan is going to be out there.

Contrasted with a 95-92 loss to Dallas when he was benched, yes his playing is a difference maker.  I want he in with Duncan at least 20 minutes a game.  Just like the 2005 Champ run with TD/Nazr and a spritz of Rasho.  Otherwise a combo platter.  He and Fabs switching out or also TD Elson Fabs together depending on the opponent and in game adjustments of other team.
With TallBall we can let Dirk get his and still prevail. 

  Victory over Toronto, 103-94.  6 points, 8 boards.  Most of the game, Toronto went with their small line-up.

So Toronto did.  We went Tall with Elson and won.  Why should we have to adjust to the other team ala Pop succumbing to Avery Johnson.

  Victory over New York, 105-93.  *I* could start at center and out-rebound Eddy Curry.  Oops.  Elson was out-rebounded by Eddy Curry 11 to 4.  4 points - on four free throws and 0-3 from the field - and four rebounds against the Knicks.  Why were they playing him, exactly?  Oh.  Because Oberto fouled out.

4th game as a Spur and you are busting his balls over this game?  I guess that explains why you busted Michael Finleys balls.  Oh wait.

Victory over New York, 100-92.  9 points, 9 boards - and 5 turnovers.  Sounds like we've got a real stud on our hands.
 

  9 and 9 on 4-5 with 2 assists is good.  Plus you make no mention of defense.

Victory over Houston, 92-84.  12-7 is a solid game.  Probably saw his time because Oberto picked up 4 fouls in 5 minutes

  As opposed to a correct Pop stategical move, correct.

Miami 20 minutes in 106-86 win.

Losses.  3 of 4 recently:
Dal 95-92 6 minutes.   
@Gsw 111-102 10 minutes Nice D by the SmallBall PoppySpurs.
@Uth 83-75 15 min  Meanwhile Fabs had 20 min 0 points 0 assists 0 steals 0 blocks and 1 rebound.

2 other losses incidentally Elson less then 20 minutes.



 

[Reality]

^^ In that Utah loss it went
Elson 15 min 5 boards 2 blocks
Fabs 20 min 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  1 rebound.

Oh and Finley was 1-8 to bolster his 29% on the year.

[Randy]

^^ In that Utah loss it went
Elson 15 min 5 boards 2 blocks
Fabs 20 min 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  1 rebound.

Oh and Finley was 1-8 to bolster his 29% on the year.

Starting to get a bit dizzy here, Reality -- you seem to change "lauded players" more often than you change your favorite NBA team!  So Fabs is now "out" and Elson is "in"?  Of course, this does nothing to your prognostication abilities!

[Reality]

^^ In that Utah loss it went
Elson 15 min 5 boards 2 blocks
Fabs 20 min 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  1 rebound.

Oh and Finley was 1-8 to bolster his 29% on the year.

Starting to get a bit dizzy here, Reality -- you seem to change "lauded players" more often than you change your favorite NBA team!  So Fabs is now "out" and Elson is "in"?  Of course, this does nothing to your prognostication abilities!

Oh that is soo cute Randy.
Twisty,
Always wanted Fabs to be a contributing role player and continue so.  Did not/do not think he is starter big minutes material.  However he has surprised in some starts, bombed in others like the above game.  It's called "in game adjustements", something you and Popavich are incapable of/refuse to grasp.  Hence the One and Done Spurs as regards titles.  Fabs and Oberto do not have to be "all in" or "all out".