Utah -- are they better than the Spurs?

[westkoast]

This pains me to say and I don't want to throw fuel on the fire but...

Manu has been hurt for a few weeks now.

You yung pups be quite rude!  You need to ask BEFORE you point out the obvious.  AK-47 and Kobe are subpar for the same reason.

*raises hand*

Can I ask you if I am allowed to point you spelled young the wrong way?

Plus there is one stat the Spurs fans are not flopping out onto the table...Manu's ability to turn into a rag doll when someone breaths on him in the paint.

[Lurker]

This pains me to say and I don't want to throw fuel on the fire but...

Manu has been hurt for a few weeks now.

You yung pups be quite rude!  You need to ask BEFORE you point out the obvious.  AK-47 and Kobe are subpar for the same reason.

Ah-ha.  Cracks in the Laker solidarity.


BTW my post on the top 15 was designed more to point out the bias in this ranking towards scorers.  You will also note that the top 15 is not filled with players from balanced, winning teams.

[Randy]

1. Joe Johnson, ATL  79.23 79.23 +0.00 15 41.6 28.3 5.3 4.1 50.6 71.1
2. Michael Redd, MIL  78.40 79.02 -0.62 17 40.8 29.6 3.8 2.1 48.1 84.5
3. Vince Carter, NJ  78.19 78.19 +0.00 16 39.2 27.7 5.9 3.4 48.1 82.0
4. Paul Pierce, BOS  76.50 78.68 -2.18 16 37.8 25.7 7.9 4.0 45.6 76.1
5. Ray Allen, SEA  74.52 74.52 +0.00 18 40.7 25.3 4.1 3.2 43.6 91.7
6. Kobe Bryant, LAL  74.11 74.65 -0.54 15 37.7 26.1 4.6 4.7 48.7 83.8
7. Kevin Martin, SAC  71.31 72.12 -0.81 16 36.5 22.5 4.4 1.8 53.2 89.6
8. Richard Hamilton, DET  68.49 68.49 +0.00 15 36.6 22.1 3.9 3.2 45.2 89.2
9. Tracy McGrady, HOU  65.87 65.87 +0.00 16 35.4 18.0 5.6 6.5 40.5 65.9
10. Raja Bell, PHO  61.40 61.40 +0.00 13 37.6 16.9 2.7 1.8 46.3 86.7
11. Peja Stojakovic, NO  59.06 59.06 +0.00 13 32.7 17.8 4.2 0.8 42.3 81.6
12. Ricky Davis, MIN  58.23 58.23 +0.00 16 34.6 14.5 2.6 4.5 44.9 84.2
13. Cuttino Mobley, LAC  58.19 58.19 +0.00 16 34.3 13.8 3.5 1.9 48.4 74.4
14. Josh Childress, ATL  57.94 57.94 +0.00 7 37.0 13.3 6.4 1.3 56.7 77.8
15. Jamal Crawford, NY  57.82 58.76 -0.94 20 33.3 15.6 2.6 3.4 38.9 81.6
16. Grant Hill, ORL  56.73 57.39 -0.66 17 30.5 14.9 3.5 2.7 52.6 76.6
17. Manu Ginobili, SA  56.71 56.72 -0.01 14 28.4 13.3 4.7 3.8 41.2 86.8

Just an interesting ranking -- I guess Manu is simply a middle of the pack shooting guard! 

Until you think about the fact that the top 8-9 on the list are PRIMARY options for their teams and Manu is the THIRD option on his team.  And to throw your own argument back at you...that ranking doesn't account for poor shooting.  In fact it is heavily weighted towards scorers.  Also every one on that list except Manu is averaging over 30 minutes a game.  More minutes = more stats.

Then look closer....Manu has the 4th highest FT%; 6th highest rebound and 5th highest assist on that list.  All while averaging less minutes than the rest.  So I guess maybe he isn't so middle of the pack but one of the better players for PLAYING BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT!

Hmm, so why isn't Manu playing more minutes?  A #3 option only playing 28 minutes a game?  
Let's see:  
   Duncan at 35 mpg
   Bowen at 35 mpg
   Parker at 34 mpg
   Manu at 28 mpg
   Barry at 22 mpg
   Oberto at 22 mpg
   Finley at 21 mpg

Don't more #3 scoring options spend more than 28 minutes on the floor?  Hmm . . .

This pains me to say and I don't want to throw fuel on the fire but...

Manu has been hurt for a few weeks now.

Umm, the 28 mpg that are given here don't have anything to do with injured minutes.  And we all know that any game that Manu has that is subpar is BECAUSE of injury!  That is a fact that Reality established many many threads ago!

[WayOutWest]

This pains me to say and I don't want to throw fuel on the fire but...

Manu has been hurt for a few weeks now.

You yung pups be quite rude!  You need to ask BEFORE you point out the obvious.  AK-47 and Kobe are subpar for the same reason.

*raises hand*

Can I ask you if I am allowed to point you spelled young the wrong way?

Plus there is one stat the Spurs fans are not flopping out onto the table...Manu's ability to turn into a rag doll when someone breaths on him in the paint.

I guess next time I'll post in a hick font.  Yung un, how do you pick that out and miss the "be quite"?  You know how old southerners be talking, y'all be quiet now ya'ear.  westkoast, you's need da learn to shut the f__k up when grown folk be talk'n

[WayOutWest]

Umm, the 28 mpg that are given here don't have anything to do with injured minutes.  And we all know that any game that Manu has that is subpar is BECAUSE of injury!  That is a fact that Reality established many many threads ago!

Yes, the theories of Realitivitly must be stricktly adhered too.

[Randy]

This pains me to say and I don't want to throw fuel on the fire but...

Manu has been hurt for a few weeks now.

You yung pups be quite rude!  You need to ask BEFORE you point out the obvious.  AK-47 and Kobe are subpar for the same reason.

*raises hand*

Can I ask you if I am allowed to point you spelled young the wrong way?

Plus there is one stat the Spurs fans are not flopping out onto the table...Manu's ability to turn into a rag doll when someone breaths on him in the paint.

This is referred to as the "Manu rule" -- opponents are NOT allowed to breath in Manu's direction -- any such breathing is automatically a foul.  This rule is further augmented by 180 degrees when the opponent has the basketball in hand.  

[Skandery]

Don't more #3 scoring options spend more than 28 minutes on the floor?  Hmm . . .

Iverson - 43.9 mpg
J. Johnson - 41.6 mpg
M. Redd - 40.8 mpg
R. Allen - 40.7 mpg
.
.
.
.
.
T. Duncan - 34.4 mpg

Don't more #1 scoring options spend more than 34 minutes on the floor? Hmmmm.....

As a team's best player goes, guess that means Tim Duncan doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Joe Johnson and Michael Redd, right?  Or just maaaybe could it be that Popovich likes resting his top players to save energy for the playoffs.....hmmmm....

Another one of Randy's non-sensical points, another opportunity to poke holes right through it......this is getting fun.    

[Skandery]

This is referred to as the "Manu rule" -- opponents are NOT allowed to breath in Manu's direction -- any such breathing is automatically a foul.

Kobe Bryant   - 9.1 FTA in 37 minutes or roughly a free throw every 4 minutes
Manu Ginobili  - 3.8 FTA in 28 minutes or roughly a free throw every 8 minutes

so in light of the fact that the Kobster is paraded to the line at twice the rate Manu is, all I have to say:

What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about? 

 

[Randy]

Don't more #3 scoring options spend more than 28 minutes on the floor?  Hmm . . .

Iverson - 43.9 mpg
J. Johnson - 41.6 mpg
M. Redd - 40.8 mpg
R. Allen - 40.7 mpg
.
.
.
.
.
T. Duncan - 34.4 mpg

Don't more #1 scoring options spend more than 34 minutes on the floor? Hmmmm.....

As a team's best player goes, guess that means Tim Duncan doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Joe Johnson and Michael Redd, right?  Or just maaaybe could it be that Popovich likes resting his top players to save energy for the playoffs.....hmmmm....

Another one of Randy's non-sensical points, another opportunity to poke holes right through it......this is getting fun.

Hmm, so these stats are meaningless?  

Sure, it shows a more balanced approach in scoring, doesn't it!  Thanks -- that has been my point all along -- that the loss of the "#3 scoring option" for the Spurs isn't that much of a loss!  Thanks, Skander!

[Randy]

This is referred to as the "Manu rule" -- opponents are NOT allowed to breath in Manu's direction -- any such breathing is automatically a foul.

Kobe Bryant   - 9.1 FTA in 37 minutes or roughly a free throw every 4 minutes
Manu Ginobili  - 3.8 FTA in 28 minutes or roughly a free throw every 8 minutes

so in light of the fact that the Kobster is paraded to the line at twice the rate Manu is, all I have to say:

What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about? 

Do you always take yourself this seriously?   

[WayOutWest]

Kobe Bryant   - 9.1 FTA in 37 minutes or roughly a free throw every 4 minutes
Manu Ginobili  - 3.8 FTA in 28 minutes or roughly a free throw every 8 minutes

so in light of the fact that the Kobster is paraded to the line at twice the rate Manu is, all I have to say:

What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about? 

 

Brilliant!  Why don't we go ahead and compare Yao's FT attempts per minute to Okur's?  Or how about Maggette to Bowen?  Better yet, if we're going to compare 1st tier players to 3rd tier players with differnt types of game, let's go with comparring Brand's FT attempts vs Atoine Walker.

Bloody hell, what a buch of tossers!

[Reality]

This is referred to as the "Manu rule" -- opponents are NOT allowed to breath in Manu's direction -- any such breathing is automatically a foul.

Kobe Bryant   - 9.1 FTA in 37 minutes or roughly a free throw every 4 minutes
Manu Ginobili  - 3.8 FTA in 28 minutes or roughly a free throw every 8 minutes

so in light of the fact that the Kobster is paraded to the line at twice the rate Manu is, all I have to say:

What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about? 

Excellent.

[Lurker]

IMHO I think we should abandon this thread to just Randy & Reality.  That way they can both continue applying the George Bush view of the world to basketball....

[Skandery]

Do you always take yourself this seriously?

Serious?  Actually I'm having a ball.

Debunking your crackpot theories, misguided assumptions, and blatent omissions has proven quite exhilirating.

Thanks -- that has been my point all along -- that the loss of the "#3 scoring option" for the Spurs isn't that much of a loss!  Thanks, Skander!

So the point is that when Manu goes down it isn't that much of a loss.  Okay...

Lakers record without Kobe:     2-0 -- 100% winning percentage
Lakers record with Kobe :       10-5 -- 66% winning percentage

So your point is when Kobe goes down for the Lakers it isn't that much of a loss!  Thanks, Randy!

I'm making these ridiculous points to try and show you the holes in your argument.

Why don't we go ahead and compare Yao's FT attempts per minute to Okur's?  Or how about Maggette to Bowen?  Better yet, if we're going to compare 1st tier players to 3rd tier players with differnt types of game, let's go with comparring Brand's FT attempts vs Atoine Walker.

WayOutWest, the adults are having a conversation, if you don't understand something, wait until we're finished...then you may ask your questions.

[westkoast]

WayOutWest, the adults are having a conversation, if you don't understand something, wait until we're finished...then you may ask your questions.

Is this similar to the adult coversations after drinking 4 bottles of Jose Cuervo when all the kids are upstairs sleeping?

The real reason certain LA residents/fans can't stand Manu is we are afraid he is going to take potential acting jobs away from us if he ever leaves the River Walk.