Author Topic: Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!  (Read 1710 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« on: November 10, 2006, 01:04:23 PM »
I am amazed at who Bynum is being compared to already on a bunch of Laker boards.

People are talking about Bynum being better in his prime than Shaq.  IMO no player in ALL NBA history, including MJ, was as good as Shaq in his prime.  1999-2000 Shaq is the greatest player I have EVER seen or heard of.  That Shaq would decimate Russel, Wilt, Kareem, Dream or any other center I've ever seen or heard of.  Bynum will be lucky to have Rik Smits career.  Bynum will NEVER be as good as Shaq, he may put up impressive numbers because teams will not adjust their ENTIRE defense to address him but I can't believe people think so highly of this inconsistent kid.

Some of the funniest stuff I've read is how he's already a combo of Wilt & Shaq's power with Hakeems moves.  LOL!  I like this kid, he should be a solid starter for the Lakers for years to come.  While he doesn't have the skills of Kaman, nor will he, he should become a bigger impact than Kaman in L.A.  He seems to have Byron Scott syndrom as far as his performance at home vs away.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 01:06:40 PM by WayOutWest »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 01:13:42 PM »
Hollow Cow?  WTF does that mean?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

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"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline westkoast

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 01:16:58 PM »
Two things...

First of all, The Laker Nation is known to have many idiots.  Sadly you do not have to take an IQ test before you buy a Lamar Odom or Kobe Bryant jersey and show up at Staples Center.  He doesn't have the quickness Shaq had nor is he as intimidating.  Bynum has been playing very well in the paint but Shaq had a rep and was quicker.  Players will challenge Bynum and alot of them will enjoy jamming on him.  Shaq on the other hand, not very many people have tested him in his prime and when they did I bet they were thinking 'please dont get hurt please dont get hurt'  *IF* Bynum improves his defense by great deal then maybe in that aspect he could be Shaq-like (not better then) but I don't think he will ever be as dominating in the paint as Shaq.  He doesn't have that fire, ego, or size.  Nor will he ever.

Second, I notice that you don't want to admit he is much better then you "predicted" he would be.  You were getting on about him last year with sarcastic remarks, then this year came around and you've had to re-sing your tune to 'He won't have the skills of Kaman', and maybe by the end of this year you'll change it to 'He won't have the skills of say a Elden Campbell'.  Granted I don't think he is going to be the greatest or anywhere near Shaq.  There is more reasons then just intimidation in the paint (both sides of the court) and foot speed but I think those are clearly in Shaq's favor.   I think he is going to be MUCH better then Brendan Haywood  though :D
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 01:18:28 PM by westkoast »
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Offline rickortreat

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2006, 01:18:21 PM »
Shaq on his best day couild never match Wilt.  Never.

Only a punk with no knowledge of the old NBA would even think of comparing the two players.

 

Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2006, 01:20:37 PM »
Quote
Two things...

First of all, The Laker Nation is known to have many idiots.  Sadly you do not have to take an IQ test before you buy a Lamar Odom or Kobe Bryant jersey and show up at Staples Center.  He doesn't have the quickness Shaq had nor is he as intimidating.  Bynum has been playing very well in the paint but Shaq had a rep and was quicker.  Players will challenge Bynum and alot of them will enjoy jamming on him.  Shaq on the other hand, not very many people have tested him in his prime and when they did I bet they were thinking 'please dont get hurt please dont get hurt'  *IF* Bynum improves his defense by great deal then maybe in that aspect he could be Shaq-like (not better then) but I don't think he will ever be as dominating in the paint as Shaq.  He doesn't have that fire, ego, or size.  Nor will he ever.

Second, I notice that you don't want to admit he is much better then you "predicted" he would be.  You were getting on about him last year with sarcastic remarks, then this year came around and you've had to re-sing your tune to 'He won't have the skills of Kaman', and maybe by the end of this year you'll change it to 'He won't have the skills of say a Elden Campbell'.  Granted I don't think he is going to be the greatest or anywhere near Shaq.  There is more reasons then just intimidation in the paint (both sides of the court) and foot speed but I think those are clearly in Shaq's favor.   I think he is going to be MUCH better then Brendan Haywood  though :D
I'm kinda tired of you stating I've changed my tune.  Please point it out.  I stated he would be nothing more or LESS than a journeyman center?  I've already tried to point out the difference between a bust and a journeyman but you don't seem to get it.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2006, 01:23:48 PM »
Quote
Shaq on his best day couild never match Wilt.  Never.

Only a punk with no knowledge of the old NBA would even think of comparing the two players.
jackass, your lack b-ball knowledge and ability to think rationaly are not up to the tasks of trying to understand, let alone quantify, my opinions.

God on his best day couldn't defend primo-Shaq, let alone Wilt.
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"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline msc

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2006, 01:50:54 PM »
I think everyone can agree that Bynum has shown significant improvement from last year.  Physically, he's leaner, yet stronger and more defined.  His positioning in the post, post moves and D seem to be improving under the tutelage of Kareem.  Laker fans are excited and should be because the kid has such great potential.  The key word being "kid".  The guy just turned 19 and if I remember correctly, he didn't even start playing in high school until he was a Jr.  I could be mistaken, but I remember reading an article about how he'd only played in like 30 basketball games in his life prior to going pro.  Knowing that, I'd say Bynum has shown major growth in the short time he's been playing the game and that's exciting.

That said any comparison to Shaq is just ludicrous at this point.  Yes, as westkoast pointed out, many Laker fans are complete donkeys (of course I think you can say this about any team, but LA definitely has more than its share of morons).  

In my mind Bynum doesn’t need to be as good as Shaq or even close.  We’ve already seen what his presence on both ends of the court can do to open up the game for everyone else. There aren’t that many solid 7 footers in the league these days, so if you have one you’ve got an advantage over most of the teams in the league.  

BTW, Shaq would abuse Wilt on both ends of the court.
 

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2006, 02:00:47 PM »
You will all dieeeeeeeeeeeee for your comments.
 

Offline westkoast

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2006, 02:08:10 PM »
W.O.W: A nothing stiff ala Kwame Brown. This is a wasted pick. He can only carry Kobes jock to Staples and back.

As quoted by everyone's favorite Laker fan Reality....he can vouch for that comment as he quoted it in a thread about Bynum from last year when I was baiting him about Super Fabs and Super Bynum.

W.O.W you thought he was going to be crappy and are seeing otherwise.  I think we both can agree he will not be a Brendan Haywood and he was not a wasted pick.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 02:09:11 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2006, 02:11:20 PM »
Quote
I think everyone can agree that Bynum has shown significant improvement from last year.  Physically, he's leaner, yet stronger and more defined.  His positioning in the post, post moves and D seem to be improving under the tutelage of Kareem.  Laker fans are excited and should be because the kid has such great potential.  The key word being "kid".  The guy just turned 19 and if I remember correctly, he didn't even start playing in high school until he was a Jr.  I could be mistaken, but I remember reading an article about how he'd only played in like 30 basketball games in his life prior to going pro.  Knowing that, I'd say Bynum has shown major growth in the short time he's been playing the game and that's exciting.

No doubt he's gotten better and will continue to get better but he's most likely going to be a journeyman level center.  He's still a lanky akward kid and that's probably not going to change.  Just look at Bosh as a rookie to see the difference or you can check out Greg Oden to see a very coordinated big man who about the same age as Bynum.  I would love nothing better than to be wrong about this kid and for him to become Dream-like but that's not in the cards for himi.  I'm dreaming he's going to be Parish-like but IMO he's probably going to be Joe Bary Carrol-like.

Quote
In my mind Bynum doesn’t need to be as good as Shaq or even close.  We’ve already seen what his presence on both ends of the court can do to open up the game for everyone else. There aren’t that many solid 7 footers in the league these days, so if you have one you’ve got an advantage over most of the teams in the league.
 

Exactly, Bynum is a benefactor of circumstance.  I had the pleasure of watching centers in the league since the early 80's, so Bynum doesn't impress nor is he something new or special.

Quote
BTW, Shaq would abuse Wilt on both ends of the court.

Some people just can't see clearly when it comes to their teams.  Players back in the day, even the 80's, would have a harder time in the current league.  NBA players have gone beyond natural talent and skills.  It was rare to see a chisled player back in the 80's, no most players partake in some kind of weight lifting and/or body building program.  FYI Lakers were the first team to implement that as a team wide requirement, of course Magic got off light when ever he felt like it.  IMO players are using performance enhance substances, like b-ball,  in the league today, the NBA seems to be lask in that dept.

I've seen Wilt play many times.  He came into the league with a phsyique that was a cross between Ewing and Robinson.  He had Ewings length and Robinsons athleticism, a combo never seen before.  Later in his career he filled out and had a more thick muscular build ala young Shaq.  Wilt was just so much quicker and bigger than 99% of his opponents that he could just have his way.  Wilt didn't have moves like McHale, Dream or Duncan, he was more about effectiveness like Shaq.  Alot of his moves were Shaq like or finger rolls litterally over the heads of his defenders.  You'd be hard pressed to finger roll over your average center in the 80's - 00's, just ask Duncan.  On offense there is no player in history that could possibly defend Shaq in his prime in any way shape or form.  Shaq's combo of strength, speed and footwork is just too much for anyone including Wilt, Russel, Kareem, DRob, Gilmore, Walton, Mourning and Dream (IMO some of if not the greatest C's of all time on both ends) On the flip side Wilt could not go through or over Shaq on defense, he'd have to go around and it would be something new for him.  
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"Our story is real history"
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"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
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Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2006, 02:17:40 PM »
Quote
W.O.W: A nothing stiff ala Kwame Brown. This is a wasted pick. He can only carry Kobes jock to Staples and back.

As quoted by everyone's favorite Laker fan Reality....he can vouch for that comment as he quoted it in a thread about Bynum from last year when I was baiting him about Super Fabs and Super Bynum.

W.O.W you thought he was going to be crappy and are seeing otherwise.  I think we both can agree he will not be a Brendan Haywood and he was not a wasted pick.
Please find that post.  A nothing stiff is something I thought I only used for Spurs players.

I think you have a hard time understanding tense.  I know I said Bynum "sucks", then I went on to say he'll be a journeyman.  

Bynum sucks=current tense
he'll be a journeyman = future tense

Bynum is Haywood in a Laker uniform=current tense

If I said he's a wasted pick that was wrong, a journeyman center in this era is a valuable commodity, especially at the 10th spot.  There isn't an Amare diamond-in-the-rough at the 10th spot every year.
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"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2006, 02:51:31 PM »
Quote
Quote
W.O.W: A nothing stiff ala Kwame Brown. This is a wasted pick. He can only carry Kobes jock to Staples and back.

As quoted by everyone's favorite Laker fan Reality....he can vouch for that comment as he quoted it in a thread about Bynum from last year when I was baiting him about Super Fabs and Super Bynum.

W.O.W you thought he was going to be crappy and are seeing otherwise.  I think we both can agree he will not be a Brendan Haywood and he was not a wasted pick.
Please find that post.  A nothing stiff is something I thought I only used for Spurs players.

I think you have a hard time understanding tense.  I know I said Bynum "sucks", then I went on to say he'll be a journeyman.  

Bynum sucks=current tense
he'll be a journeyman = future tense

Bynum is Haywood in a Laker uniform=current tense

If I said he's a wasted pick that was wrong, a journeyman center in this era is a valuable commodity, especially at the 10th spot.  There isn't an Amare diamond-in-the-rough at the 10th spot every year.
Bynum going from suck to journey man to ________ <---Whatever he could end up being in the next few years.

Saying that above is you slowly admitting you were wrong about him at first.   You'll have to ask Reality where he found the quote from but I can give you the thread he said it in.

And I think we all didn't know what Bynum was going to do.  There is not anyone in the Laker Nation who can honestly admit they knew he was going to improve in the off-season as much as he did.  The reason I am bringing up you hopping from title to title for him is that it seemed like you never gave him a chance.

Back to the topic at hand...Shaq's foot speed at his size alone puts him well above a level Bynum could reach.  I just don't think his foot work will ever been on the same level.  
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Offline WayOutWest

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2006, 04:05:05 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
W.O.W: A nothing stiff ala Kwame Brown. This is a wasted pick. He can only carry Kobes jock to Staples and back.

As quoted by everyone's favorite Laker fan Reality....he can vouch for that comment as he quoted it in a thread about Bynum from last year when I was baiting him about Super Fabs and Super Bynum.

W.O.W you thought he was going to be crappy and are seeing otherwise.  I think we both can agree he will not be a Brendan Haywood and he was not a wasted pick.
Please find that post.  A nothing stiff is something I thought I only used for Spurs players.

I think you have a hard time understanding tense.  I know I said Bynum "sucks", then I went on to say he'll be a journeyman.  

Bynum sucks=current tense
he'll be a journeyman = future tense

Bynum is Haywood in a Laker uniform=current tense

If I said he's a wasted pick that was wrong, a journeyman center in this era is a valuable commodity, especially at the 10th spot.  There isn't an Amare diamond-in-the-rough at the 10th spot every year.
Bynum going from suck to journey man to ________ <---Whatever he could end up being in the next few years.

Saying that above is you slowly admitting you were wrong about him at first.   You'll have to ask Reality where he found the quote from but I can give you the thread he said it in.

And I think we all didn't know what Bynum was going to do.  There is not anyone in the Laker Nation who can honestly admit they knew he was going to improve in the off-season as much as he did.  The reason I am bringing up you hopping from title to title for him is that it seemed like you never gave him a chance.

Back to the topic at hand...Shaq's foot speed at his size alone puts him well above a level Bynum could reach.  I just don't think his foot work will ever been on the same level.
westkoast,

Last time, he sucks (at the time) and he would only be a journeyman player has been my take from day 1.  That has NOT changed.  Even back then I stated that I HOPED, NOT EXPECTED NOR PREDICTED, he could be as good as Parish some day if God really is a die-hard Laker fan as he's stated and not some bandwagon diety.  My prediction is and has always been JOURNEYMAN.
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"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline Reality

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2006, 03:46:12 AM »
Quote
Quote
W.O.W: A nothing stiff ala Kwame Brown. This is a wasted pick. He can only carry Kobes jock to Staples and back.

As quoted by everyone's favorite Laker fan Reality....he can vouch for that comment as he quoted it in a thread about Bynum from last year when I was baiting him about Super Fabs and Super Bynum.

W.O.W you thought he was going to be crappy and are seeing otherwise.  I think we both can agree he will not be a Brendan Haywood and he was not a wasted pick.
Please find that post.  A nothing stiff is something I thought I only used for Spurs players.
koast, i found some quotes.

The one you mentioned about WOW saying Bynum was a stiff was actually me parodying WOW who had said Fabs Oberto would be "a stiff ala Rasho" and could only be useful to the Spurs in carying Duncans jock to practice.  Unless he did post that about Bynum  I can't find it.  Yet. B)

However i found some related quotes:
Randy
Quote
I have little hopes for Bynum, Kwame or any "big man" the Lakers have right now -- however, it's interested that you think that a 14/8 Euro guy [Fabs] (what is the NBA equivalent of a Euro 14/8? -- 10/5?). However, you seem to think this is a "big score" for the Spurs

W.O.W. on Bynum
Quote
I'm saying he SUCKS!
I watch young guys like Nene and Kaman who have some basic coordination, they will end up being jorneyman type players. Andrew doesn't display any of that, he's very akward ala Deke without the defensive ability.
He may one day develop the offensive abilities of Olwakandi, on a good day he has some impressive moves against the likes of Duncan and DRob. It really looked like Olwakandi turned the corner in those games but it was short lived.

He just doesn't have it.
 WOW does go on to quantify SUCKS in present (now past) tense,
Quote
There is a difference and IMO Bryman is gonna suck, he may be the reincarnation of Mike Shmrek. Remember that guy who backup Kareem for years and showed some potential and flashes of brilliance but never really panned out. In this era a guy like Mike would be a solid center.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 03:47:25 AM by Reality »

Offline rickortreat

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Hollow cow! Shaq who? Bynum is the GOAT!
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2006, 10:28:36 AM »
Quote
Some people just can't see clearly when it comes to their teams. Players back in the day, even the 80's, would have a harder time in the current league. NBA players have gone beyond natural talent and skills. It was rare to see a chisled player back in the 80's, no most players partake in some kind of weight lifting and/or body building program. FYI Lakers were the first team to implement that as a team wide requirement, of course Magic got off light when ever he felt like it. IMO players are using performance enhance substances, like b-ball, in the league today, the NBA seems to be lask in that dept.

I've seen Wilt play many times. He came into the league with a phsyique that was a cross between Ewing and Robinson. He had Ewings length and Robinsons athleticism, a combo never seen before. Later in his career he filled out and had a more thick muscular build ala young Shaq. Wilt was just so much quicker and bigger than 99% of his opponents that he could just have his way. Wilt didn't have moves like McHale, Dream or Duncan, he was more about effectiveness like Shaq. Alot of his moves were Shaq like or finger rolls litterally over the heads of his defenders. You'd be hard pressed to finger roll over your average center in the 80's - 00's, just ask Duncan. On offense there is no player in history that could possibly defend Shaq in his prime in any way shape or form. Shaq's combo of strength, speed and footwork is just too much for anyone including Wilt, Russel, Kareem, DRob, Gilmore, Walton, Mourning and Dream (IMO some of if not the greatest C's of all time on both ends) On the flip side Wilt could not go through or over Shaq on defense, he'd have to go around and it would be something new for him.

Wilt never became a fat pig like Shaq.  And Shaq never scored 100 pts. in a game.  And he could never, ever have led the league in assists like Wilt did!  Wilt's court sense and understanding is a magnitude of order higher than the big Aristotle.  Face it, Shaq isn't the sharpest tack in the box, and Wilt got away with everything becaues he could and still was the strongest quickest big man on the court.

Don't forget that Wilt had to play against Kareem, Lanier, Russel and the other big centers of his day.  Don't forget that he saw these guys many more times in his carreer because their were fewer teams and the level of talent on each team was much greater.  There was a good deal more strategy then, and there were very few one dimensional players.  A player would get beat, and his coach and he would figure out something else to try.  No one could ever figure out a way to beat Wilt until the end of his career.

Shaq couldn't have handled the pace of the game back then.  Teams scored 120 pts. regularly.  Fatso would have gotten winded pretty quickly back then.

You really think Shaq could get to a postion faster than Wilt?  :crazy:

You think Shaq could stop Wilt from running up and down the floor?

Shaq was pretty much in his young prime when Hakeem Olujuwon made him look sick.  Wilt had that speed too, or maybe you forget some of his battles with Russel.  

There's no way you can compare Shaq's speed with Wilt.  In a foot race, Shaq would finish last.  Shaq is a bit bigger, so I wouldn't disagree that he was stronger, but Wilt was so much quicker, that Shaq wouldn't able to even keep up with him.  He wouldn't need any post up moves, because Shaq would still be standing in the same place after Wilt made a move and dunked the ball.

The moves that Shaq used would have been called fouls in the old NBA,  you could never back an opponent down, you had to go around them. Shaq did have the ability, but he has no finesse.  Wilt did.

I saw them both play, and it's a joke to compare them.  Shaq is the best Center of the modern era, but he couldn't do the things that Wilt did in his career.  They allow players to get away with so much more today, because the talent level is lower.  They even allow zone defenses these days!  

A Jordan led bulls team could never have won in the 60's and 70's.  There were too many complete teams around to let one 2 guard beat you.  In that era, Jordan would have become another Oscar Roberston- a great player that never got a ring, until he hooked up with Kareem at the end of his career.

The game was played at much higher level then.  I remember it.