Does Antonio Davis deserve eight games?

[Guest_Randy]

from Espn.com

The morning line on the over/under for Antonio Davis' suspension is eight games.

Anything less, and commissioner David Stern will be pilloried for not being tough enough on the latest player to jump the scorer's table and cross the invisible line separating paying customers and paid performers.

Anything more, and Stern will be accused of grossly overreacting to a post-Artest moment that never really spun out of control.

Eight is enough.

Because he went into the same section of seats as Ron Artest did during the infamous Palace brawl in 2004, there was an eerie similarity to the first few seconds of Davis' sprint out of the Knicks' huddle, over the table and into the courtside seats during overtime of Wednesday night's Knicks-Bulls game at the United Center in Chicago.

"I witnessed my wife being threatened by a man that I learned later to be intoxicated," Davis said in a statement issued after the game. "I saw him touch her, and I know I should not have acted the way I did, but I would have felt terrible if I didn't react. There was no time to call security. It happened too quickly."

Davis remained calm and walked away after security arrived, and the referees ejected him after he returned to the bench.

Now, it's Stern's turn to eject him for a few more games, and the question the commissioner must ponder Thursday is what the appropriate punishment should be (Davis' suspension is expected to be announced sometime during the afternoon before the Knicks' Thursday night home game against Detroit).

In the aftermath of the Palace brawl, Stern issued some of the harshest penalties he had ever handed down because he wanted to send the strongest possible message that players can never, ever, ever cross the line and go into the stands. No matter how benign Davis' foray ended up being, it was totally unacceptable. What would have happened if someone had tossed a beer on Davis? Or his wife?

Stern was actually lucky that someone as educated and affable as Davis was the first to cross the post-Artest line, but that should not be a mitigating factor when the commissioner sets Davis' penalty, nor should Davis' post as president of the players' union factor into the equation.

An eight-game suspension would cost Davis, who makes $13.8 million, a little over a million bucks in lost salary. It could go down in history as Davis' Million-Dollar Mistake, and if he makes a sincere public statement of contrition it'll allow everyone to put this episode behind them.

The last thing the commissioner needs is another extended debate tied in some way to the Palace brawl. He needs this one to go away, and the best way for that to happen is for Stern to issue a suspension that's fair.

In this case, eight is enough.

I CAN'T disagree more -- okay, it's one thing to have an invisible line that players are not allowed to cross -- on the other hand IF players are NOT going to be allowed to go into the stands to protect their families then those NBA players have to feel assured that each arena will have proper security to handle such incidents.  The fact is that VERY few have enough security and even those that do -- even if the security is there, they are reticent to get involved.

Personally, when some drunk fan gets up and confronts a players wife and actually puts his hands on her THAT is crossing a line that is a MUCH bigger line than a player entering the stands.  Davis looked to be very much in control of himself -- simply wanted to make sure that his wife was protected (something that ANY man would and should do).

IMO, they shouldn't penalize Davis until they ADDRESS the security issue of players and their families (and any other fan) in the stands.  

[SPURSX3]

from Espn.com

The morning line on the over/under for Antonio Davis' suspension is eight games.

Anything less, and commissioner David Stern will be pilloried for not being tough enough on the latest player to jump the scorer's table and cross the invisible line separating paying customers and paid performers.

Anything more, and Stern will be accused of grossly overreacting to a post-Artest moment that never really spun out of control.

Eight is enough.

Because he went into the same section of seats as Ron Artest did during the infamous Palace brawl in 2004, there was an eerie similarity to the first few seconds of Davis' sprint out of the Knicks' huddle, over the table and into the courtside seats during overtime of Wednesday night's Knicks-Bulls game at the United Center in Chicago.

"I witnessed my wife being threatened by a man that I learned later to be intoxicated," Davis said in a statement issued after the game. "I saw him touch her, and I know I should not have acted the way I did, but I would have felt terrible if I didn't react. There was no time to call security. It happened too quickly."

Davis remained calm and walked away after security arrived, and the referees ejected him after he returned to the bench.

Now, it's Stern's turn to eject him for a few more games, and the question the commissioner must ponder Thursday is what the appropriate punishment should be (Davis' suspension is expected to be announced sometime during the afternoon before the Knicks' Thursday night home game against Detroit).

In the aftermath of the Palace brawl, Stern issued some of the harshest penalties he had ever handed down because he wanted to send the strongest possible message that players can never, ever, ever cross the line and go into the stands. No matter how benign Davis' foray ended up being, it was totally unacceptable. What would have happened if someone had tossed a beer on Davis? Or his wife?

Stern was actually lucky that someone as educated and affable as Davis was the first to cross the post-Artest line, but that should not be a mitigating factor when the commissioner sets Davis' penalty, nor should Davis' post as president of the players' union factor into the equation.

An eight-game suspension would cost Davis, who makes $13.8 million, a little over a million bucks in lost salary. It could go down in history as Davis' Million-Dollar Mistake, and if he makes a sincere public statement of contrition it'll allow everyone to put this episode behind them.

The last thing the commissioner needs is another extended debate tied in some way to the Palace brawl. He needs this one to go away, and the best way for that to happen is for Stern to issue a suspension that's fair.

In this case, eight is enough.

I CAN'T disagree more -- okay, it's one thing to have an invisible line that players are not allowed to cross -- on the other hand IF players are NOT going to be allowed to go into the stands to protect their families then those NBA players have to feel assured that each arena will have proper security to handle such incidents.  The fact is that VERY few have enough security and even those that do -- even if the security is there, they are reticent to get involved.

Personally, when some drunk fan gets up and confronts a players wife and actually puts his hands on her THAT is crossing a line that is a MUCH bigger line than a player entering the stands.  Davis looked to be very much in control of himself -- simply wanted to make sure that his wife was protected (something that ANY man would and should do).

IMO, they shouldn't penalize Davis until they ADDRESS the security issue of players and their families (and any other fan) in the stands.

I dont think he should be suspended at all.  If a man put his hands on my wife I would have done the same thing.  this is not the same thing as the pacer incident, to say it is is insane, this is his wife and the drunk had no right putting his hands on her.  This is the fans fault, for being stupid and drunk, really it is assualt on the part of the fan.  I dont think Davis should be punished for coming to the aid of his wife.

[Reality]

No win situation.

BTW, Davis is president of the Players Assoc.

#1.  Is she/Knicks sercurity incapable of defending herself?  With a true serious threat ala that tennis player who was stabbed, who is to say what is serious and not serious.  That having been said, sounds like this was just a drunk with no more intention other then slobbering on her.  With Davis multi millions earned over the years, could he afford to have given his wife some self defense classes and still have been able to feed his family?  Me?  I'll take a lot of workplace *abuse* for $5 million a year.  See with that 5 million I can do lots of things like give Mrs Reality more self defense classes (she's had plenty) and send a friend with her to the games to act as bodyguard.  Equip herself with pepper spray in purse.  I also tell her to get up and leave the vicinity of drunk heckler at 1st hint, allerting Garden Security in the process.

Where do you draw the line?  Players can now go into the stands if some Schmoe touches their wife.  

BTW is it verifyed he touched her?

If she truly was threatened bodily....it's a no win, how could you keep Davis out of the stands.

[westkoast]

Utter crap on the league's part.  If someone who is drunk is putting hands on my wife I am going to go over there and say something.  I cannot speak for the rest of the arenas across the US but at Staples center the security consists of younger men and women standing in the hall that seperates the seats from the concession stands.  Half the time they are talking to someone else or at a spot where they cannot see everything.  Even if they did is a 20 year old woman going to stop a large drunk from hitting or verbally abusing someone?  Not likely.

David Stern is an idiot looking for a quick fix to appease bone head fans who will complain that Davis doing this was violating their safety.  Maybe you need to require the front office of each team to double security or put more security guards in key spots?  Staples has like 2 security guards that are mainly on the floor because their are high profile celebrities.

Reality I think you have to put yourself in his situation, even if Mrs. Reality could whoop the crap out of Chuck Norris, you cannot stand back and think for 30 seconds if you see someone reach out to your wife on a rival teams floor.  Maybe that guy wanted to slob?  Maybe he wanted to smack her?    I dont care how many defense classes a woman takes it does not help out in all situations.  Especially if you cant do the grab and pull or the swift jewel kick.

[jn]

Baseball historians correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bill Buckner once go into the stands in Anaheim after some drunk grabbed his wife and kids and wasn't it accepted as the right thing to do?  

 

[Reality]

Baseball historians correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bill Buckner once go into the stands in Anaheim after some drunk grabbed his wife and kids and wasn't it accepted as the right thing to do?

All i see is that gounder going under his legs for the Mets win.

[SPURSX3]

No win situation.

BTW, Davis is president of the Players Assoc.

#1.  Is she/Knicks sercurity incapable of defending herself?  With a true serious threat ala that tennis player who was stabbed, who is to say what is serious and not serious.  That having been said, sounds like this was just a drunk with no more intention other then slobbering on her.  With Davis multi millions earned over the years, could he afford to have given his wife some self defense classes and still have been able to feed his family?  Me?  I'll take a lot of workplace *abuse* for $5 million a year.  See with that 5 million I can do lots of things like give Mrs Reality more self defense classes (she's had plenty) and send a friend with her to the games to act as bodyguard.  Equip herself with pepper spray in purse.  I also tell her to get up and leave the vicinity of drunk heckler at 1st hint, allerting Garden Security in the process.

Where do you draw the line?  Players can now go into the stands if some Schmoe touches their wife.  

BTW is it verifyed he touched her?

If she truly was threatened bodily....it's a no win, how could you keep Davis out of the stands.

amazing....he is actually serious about this post.


I would feel sorry for your wife reality if she were ever pushed, punched or mugged in your sight.  "Use your Kong fu honey!!  I paid good money for that! I will just stand here as you get beat up so that Security can properly do thier job...be strong!"


 :nonono:  

[Reality]

amazing....he is actually serious about this post.


I would feel sorry for your wife reality if she were ever pushed, punched or mugged in your sight.  "Use your Kong fu honey!!  I paid good money for that! I will just stand here as you get beat up so that Security can properly do thier job...be strong!"


 :nonono:

Was she punched, pushed or mugged?

Notice in addition to self defense, pepper spray, a bodyguard that I would send her to games with, I sugg to leave the vicinity at 1st hint of heckler interference.

Talk about taking a leaping twist in an attempted Realitybash.
Leave that for the Lakers.

[Derek Bodner]

What a bunch of bull.

What happened last year in Detroit was completely wrong.

However, this stance is just as wrong.

players can never, ever, ever cross the line and go into the stands. No matter how benign Davis' foray ended up being, it was totally unacceptable. What would have happened if someone had tossed a beer on Davis? Or his wife?

And what happens if that man assaults his wife?

I hate how things like this are black and white.

[westkoast]

amazing....he is actually serious about this post.


I would feel sorry for your wife reality if she were ever pushed, punched or mugged in your sight.  "Use your Kong fu honey!!  I paid good money for that! I will just stand here as you get beat up so that Security can properly do thier job...be strong!"


 :nonono:

Was she punched, pushed or mugged?

Notice in addition to self defense, pepper spray, a bodyguard that I would send her to games with, I sugg to leave the vicinity at 1st hint of heckler interference.

Talk about taking a leaping twist in an attempted Realitybash.
Leave that for the Lakers.

Why should he have to hire a bodyguard to fly around with him and his wife?  Why is the league not cracking down on the  owners who are cutting corners to maximize the amount of cash going into their fat pockets?!?

I find it funny that Davis is suspended on the grounds that they want to paint the picture they are trying to protect the fans from the basketball players or prevent a situation in the stands....What about protecting the fans period?  Not just from basketball players but from fellow fans?!

Reality I find it hard to believe that if someone laid a finger on your wife that your first instinct as her husband wouldn't be to go up to the person who is doing that and speak your mind.

[msc]

The league should be thanking Davis and using him as a positive example for the rest of the league for handling himself with such control.  I would have gone up there and stomped the shyte out of the guy and asked questions later and I'd guess 99% of the players in the league would have done the same.  Davis showed a lot of restraint and professionalism and I think should be commended, not punished.  

I enjoy knocking back a couple of beers at a game and talking a little good natured smack to the opponents as much as next guy … probably more.  However, any donkey who would heckle, harass or disturb a woman and/or her children deserves to get his A$$ kicked in to the middle of next week.  

Reality, you deserve some heat for the “can’t he afford to buy her kung-fu lessons” comment ... whether it from a Laker fan or a Hawks fan … that was ridiculous.  
 

[Reality]

Why should he have to hire a bodyguard to fly around with him and his wife?  Why is the league not cracking down on the  owners who are cutting corners to maximize the amount of cash going into their fat pockets?!?

I find it funny that Davis is suspended on the grounds that they want to paint the picture they are trying to protect the fans from the basketball players or prevent a situation in the stands....What about protecting the fans period?  Not just from basketball players but from fellow fans?!

Reality I find it hard to believe that if someone laid a finger on your wife that your first instinct as her husband wouldn't be to go up to the person who is doing that and speak your mind. [/QUOTE]
Because it takes time from the point of heckler slob initiating whatever with my wife till my standing next to her.  Time being alerted to it, (which btw what if I am involved in a play or FTA at the other end of the floor?) jumping over the scorers table, walking up ten-12 sets of stairs then arriving by seats to deal with heckler.  By that time he could have struck!

In my preparation,
1  Already have my own security dude in seat next to/behind wife.  An expense I should not have to incur?  Absolutely.  But I make 5+ mill a year.  I dont care.  I'm not going to wait for Stern and the other fat hog owners to have ample security in place.  I have found a friend or Knicks watcher with principles who will gladly act as wifes bodyguard as I am 60 feet away on the floor.

Repeat, 1st off I have asked Mrs. R to vacate and to have bodyguard interene upon 1st sign.  "Where there is no wood, the fire goes out" -Proverb.  Not saying this will always work, but if hecklers intended target leaves and now my bodyguard is in his face, what can happen to her.  She is in a safe place.

2ndly i stated if she is armed with self D, there certainly are some manuevers that can be pulled other then the groin kick and jewel twist.  

So I most likely would come up in the stands if i saw his hands on her.  Difference is I come up to see a nutt twisted-pepper sprayed-armes locked behind his back by bodyguard submissified and held-under-control-heckler.  Then i may still add a lick in on heckler.  Or not.  Is that going to do any good?  Honestly we need to clarify what exactly what and what was not done.

Xs3 comes up after heckler has done his damage.

I'm not down on Davis entering.  Agree Stern and other porky owners need to protect fans and players from other fans.  But beer sales makes owners more porky so think they give a crap?  I'm not waiting for owners to have a heart.

[westkoast]

While I agree somewhat with what your saying its hard to sit back and think rationale when you seem someone messing with the love of your life.

I guess the biggest problem I have is the fact that the league punished Davis and has not put into motion anything since the Ron Artest ordeal.  That was over a year ago!!  

Remember when Vernon Maxwell whooped up on the fan?  He got a 10 game suspension.  Davis gets 8 for going up there because David Stern and Co cannot mandate the owners get more security?!

[Lurker]

And who gets to determine...

1) was the man really drunk?  Or did just Davis think so?

2) was the man pawing his wife or simply touching her arm to get her attention in order to ask a question?

3) in the future who determines what level of interaction with a players' wife is acceptable?  If the player really has his head in the game....even during timeouts and huddles...then how does he know what transpired for the past 15 minutes in the stands.  Maybe the players' wife is the one who started the argument.

If I stand up and excuse myself to walk in front of Mrs. Christie do I have to worry about Doug flying into the stands because I blocked his view of his wife?  

If I ask Eva for an autograph do I worry about Parker crazily attacking me in the stands?

If I ask Kobe's wife to compare bling do I have to worry about being invited to a Colorado hotel room?



I applaud Davis for coming to the rescue of his wife but then I am not sure whether this was the right time or place for such gallantry.  I tend to agree more with Stern (and god I hate to say that) that there has to be a line between the court & the stands that cannot be crossed by anyone on EITHER side of the line.  If Davis' wife felt that she was in THAT much danger then she should have stood up and gone looking for security.

[SPURSX3]

Why should he have to hire a bodyguard to fly around with him and his wife?  Why is the league not cracking down on the  owners who are cutting corners to maximize the amount of cash going into their fat pockets?!?

I find it funny that Davis is suspended on the grounds that they want to paint the picture they are trying to protect the fans from the basketball players or prevent a situation in the stands....What about protecting the fans period?  Not just from basketball players but from fellow fans?!

Reality I find it hard to believe that if someone laid a finger on your wife that your first instinct as her husband wouldn't be to go up to the person who is doing that and speak your mind.

Because it takes time from the point of heckler slob initiating whatever with my wife till my standing next to her.  Time being alerted to it, (which btw what if I am involved in a play or FTA at the other end of the floor?) jumping over the scorers table, walking up ten-12 sets of stairs then arriving by seats to deal with heckler.  By that time he could have struck!

In my preparation,
1  Already have my own security dude in seat next to/behind wife.  An expense I should not have to incur?  Absolutely.  But I make 5+ mill a year.  I dont care.  I'm not going to wait for Stern and the other fat hog owners to have ample security in place.  I have found a friend or Knicks watcher with principles who will gladly act as wifes bodyguard as I am 60 feet away on the floor.

Repeat, 1st off I have asked Mrs. R to vacate and to have bodyguard interene upon 1st sign.  "Where there is no wood, the fire goes out" -Proverb.  Not saying this will always work, but if hecklers intended target leaves and now my bodyguard is in his face, what can happen to her.  She is in a safe place.

2ndly i stated if she is armed with self D, there certainly are some manuevers that can be pulled other then the groin kick and jewel twist.  

So I most likely would come up in the stands if i saw his hands on her.  Difference is I come up to see a nutt twisted-pepper sprayed-armes locked behind his back by bodyguard submissified and held-under-control-heckler.  Then i may still add a lick in on heckler.  Or not.  Is that going to do any good?  Honestly we need to clarify what exactly what and what was not done.

Xs3 comes up after heckler has done his damage.

I'm not down on Davis entering.  Agree Stern and other porky owners need to protect fans and players from other fans.  But beer sales makes owners more porky so think they give a crap?  I'm not waiting for owners to have a heart. [/quote]
 Protect the fans??  

you know what I started typing a great rebuttal to your stupid assesment...It's not even worth it.  I let you live with it.  


 :nonono: