Author Topic: Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol  (Read 13838 times)

jn

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2005, 10:48:21 AM »
"With Adam and Eve being perfect in body, mind and spirit along with a perfect future filled with perfect work (told to multiply and fill the Earth, subdue it.)
Meaning have children and enjoy extending the Garden of Eden earthwide.

While this may seem gross to Pink Unicornist and others today, bear in mind they were perfect and the genetics from such a marriage or birth would not produce messed up offspring as today. Even tho Cain was bainished after sin and imperfection took place, it was a only a relatively short time before God instituded reproductive relations to occur only between man and wife. "


What an absolute bunch of psychotic gibberish.  

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2005, 11:02:47 AM »
Quote
unamed daughter of Adam and Eve left with Cain.

With Adam and Eve being perfect in body, mind and spirit along with a perfect future filled with perfect work (told to multiply and fill the Earth, subdue it.)
Meaning have children and enjoy extending the Garden of Eden earthwide.  

While this may seem gross to Pink Unicornist and others today, bear in mind they were perfect and the genetics from such a marriage or birth would not produce messed up offspring as today.  Even tho Cain was bainished after sin and imperfection took place, it was a only a relatively short time before God instituded reproductive relations to occur only between man and wife.
May seem gross?

It is gross.  Like I said in an earlier thread, everyone likes to over look incest as the basis for proliferation of life in their belief system.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2005, 11:30:46 AM »
Quote
May seem gross?

It is gross.  Like I said in an earlier thread, everyone likes to over look incest as the basis for proliferation of life in their belief system.
jn and WOW give us the Pink Unicorns version of life again.
 

Offline SPURSX3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2005, 12:47:52 PM »
Quote from: Reality,Dec 13 2005, 03:23 AM
Quote from: WayOutWest,Dec 13 2005, 01:16 AM

Odd thing is who were these other people?
Cain and Abel were direct offsping of Adam and Eve, so who else was around? >>end WOW quote.  dadgum db board quote.

unamed daughter of Adam and Eve left with Cain.

With Adam and Eve being perfect in body, mind and spirit along with a perfect future filled with perfect work (told to multiply and fill the Earth, subdue it.)
Meaning have children and enjoy extending the Garden of Eden earthwide.  

While this may seem gross to Pink Unicornist and others today, bear in mind they were perfect and the genetics from such a marriage or birth would not produce messed up offspring as today.  Even tho Cain was bainished after sin and imperfection took place, it was a only a relatively short time before God instituded reproductive relations to occur only between man and wife.


I dont have a bible in front of me to give the exact referrence, but Adam and Eve were NOT alone in the beginning.  they were the only two of Gods creations that were banished from the Garden of Eden to this world basically, but the world was with life from the "Sons of God" - I believe is how it is put.  I know there is a difference between the Sons of God and Sons of Man as far as theology goes, and again I may be flipping them around, but the what it comes down to is that these Sons of God are suppossed to be fallen angels that were cast out with Satan.  The thing about the Bible is that it loops events into non linear history, Towards the end of the Bible - not sure if it is in Revelations or where exactly, again - no bible here to find the exact page - but it talks about God casting down Satan to Earth along with the angels that followed him.  People who study the bible in detail say that these are the beings that were on Earth when Adam and Eve arrived.  These - for the most part - are the creatures that bred with Adam and Eves seed.  Now they may be some incest going on along the way, but I have not read anything about that so far, What I have read is that Adam and Eve lived to be what 800..900 years old or something like that and had several several several children in that time - not just the few that are referred to by name in tha bible.  I think it, is in Genisis that it has all this stuff...again, I would have to look it up.  One of the guys that wrote the "Left Behind" series is a biblical scholar and has put out books pointing out some of the interpretations of the bible.  Just thought I would throw this all out there since you were talking about "incest" as being a beginning to our species.  Adam and Eve were currupted first, and thier seed were currupted after they were placed in this world, which is why people say we are currupted from birth - not by our own choice, but by the fact that we are the seed of Adam and Eve- and our washed of this sin when you are "reborn."  The thought is, people have free will to chose thier own path, you have a choice to live life the way you want, if in that time you are not "reborn" you fate is of your on choice.  Again, just thought I would throw this out there since you were not making much sense with the incest stuff.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 12:56:26 PM by SPURSX3 »
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2005, 01:12:40 PM »
If I remeber correctly, Cain took one of his 9 sisters as his wife.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

rickortreat

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2005, 03:04:39 PM »
Quote
OW, for what it's worth yes, Islam and Judaism both borrowed heavily from religions that came before them. One could go on and on about the ideas that seeped into Judaism from the ancient Sumerian and Babylonian beliefs. Not only have Judaism, Christianity and Islam swiped ideas, holidays and symbols they have actually swiped pre existing holy sites and claimed them as their own. For example in Jerusalem some remains of old Roman temples are now supposedly holy remains of the old Jewish Temple.


You had me going until that last bit of information, JN.

The Jews predated the romans by thousands of years, and yet you say that some old Roman temples are now suppossedly remains of the old Jewish temple!?

Any Roman temple was built during their occupation, and was a waste of money, since the Jews had no interest in the Roman religion or their political dominance.

Christianity and Islam both came well after Judaism, and both have borrowed heavilly.  The Church uses the old testament (Old because it predated Jesus, who was a Jewish Rabii)   Islam considerers Moses and Jesus as prophets and has taken over many holy sites belonging to other religions.

Islamic leaders actaully walled up on of the entrances to Jersusalem since it was specified as the one the mesiah would use to enter the City.

The great mosque Sofia in Istanbul was originally a Church.

Although it is possible the Jews borrowed from their contemporaries, there is no evidence of this.  Who else had a monotheistic belief system, and who else had a version of the Ten Commandments that predated Judaism?

 

Offline SPURSX3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2005, 03:46:14 PM »
Quote
Quote
OW, for what it's worth yes, Islam and Judaism both borrowed heavily from religions that came before them. One could go on and on about the ideas that seeped into Judaism from the ancient Sumerian and Babylonian beliefs. Not only have Judaism, Christianity and Islam swiped ideas, holidays and symbols they have actually swiped pre existing holy sites and claimed them as their own. For example in Jerusalem some remains of old Roman temples are now supposedly holy remains of the old Jewish Temple.


You had me going until that last bit of information, JN.

The Jews predated the romans by thousands of years, and yet you say that some old Roman temples are now suppossedly remains of the old Jewish temple!?

Any Roman temple was built during their occupation, and was a waste of money, since the Jews had no interest in the Roman religion or their political dominance.

Christianity and Islam both came well after Judaism, and both have borrowed heavilly.  The Church uses the old testament (Old because it predated Jesus, who was a Jewish Rabii)   Islam considerers Moses and Jesus as prophets and has taken over many holy sites belonging to other religions.

Islamic leaders actaully walled up on of the entrances to Jersusalem since it was specified as the one the mesiah would use to enter the City.

The great mosque Sofia in Istanbul was originally a Church.

Although it is possible the Jews borrowed from their contemporaries, there is no evidence of this.  Who else had a monotheistic belief system, and who else had a version of the Ten Commandments that predated Judaism?
wasn't it fifteen commandments until Mel Brooks dropped a tablet ... :rofl:
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 03:48:00 PM by SPURSX3 »
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

jn

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2005, 03:55:35 PM »
Rick,

I think we have a misunderstanding here.  I am well aware that Rome came to Jerusalem long after Judaism.  What I am saying is certains sites the Romans built during their occupation were LATER associated with the Temple and/or other Jewish, Christian and Islamic sites.  The Tower of David for example, has nothing to do with King David.  It was built by Herod and later rebuilt by the Ottomans. Jerusalem is one big Cluster**** of sites that different religions claim as there own.  

Does that clarify it?  

Let me get back to you on the other parts tomorrow.  That's a heaping helping to discuss and I'm weighed down by a new software system at work.  

Offline SPURSX3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2005, 09:44:53 AM »
Ineresting...atleast the press are not making this a big deal here.  It would just give these idiots more attention to thier supid cause...I dont understand the phrase, "...rch on every corner in our country to push this on people..." Honestly, there is NO freaking church that goes out and forces people into it's doors here, everyone has a choice to go or not to go, to believe or not to believe.  If your PARENTS made you go that's one thing, but you have the option to not go as an adult.  idiots.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10349028/
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline SPURSX3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2005, 11:37:56 AM »
Quote
If I remeber correctly, Cain took one of his 9 sisters as his wife.
Had a chance to look some stuf up online.  found some interesting stuff.

Cain, is supected of taking one of his own sisters for his wife.  It is interesting to point out though that this may have been ok considering they were the first of Adam and Eve's children.  Was this incest- quite possibly (that is IF his wife was indeed a sister.) - however an interesting thing to point out is that Eve was an even closer relation to Adam as she was created out of his rib - basically Adam wed HIMSELF.  the blood line was apperantly so perfect that God allowed tis to happen to give his created family time to grow in size.  Since the line was so new and clean there was no time for imperfections to occur through incest.  God DID put an end to the practice at some point - possibly due to impending problems with incest - in Leviticus.

"None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness. " (Leviticus 18:6).

Without allowing this to be, the human race may not have had a chance and would have died out.

interesting stuff.

Either way your still someones Uncle-brother-nephew-cousin WOW ...   :rolleyes:
 
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

rickortreat

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2005, 01:08:29 PM »
Thanks JN,

That DOES clarify things a bit.

Romans were definitely the superior builders of their time.  It's not surprising that once their authority waned, people would co-opt their buildings for their own uses.

It seems to me that Islam seems to be the biggest user of old temples established by other religions.  The Dome of the Rock, for example was built right on top of/adjacent to the Wailing Wall.  Saint Sophia in Istanbul and a number of Hindu Temples in India.

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2005, 10:01:46 AM »
Quote
The Dome of the Rock, for example was built right on top of/adjacent to the Wailing Wall.  Saint Sophia in Istanbul and a number of Hindu Temples in India.
If I remember correctly, that was THE jewish temple, a house of God if there ever was one.  That temple was #1 the same way the vatacin (sic?) is to catholics, it's were Jesus got pissed at the money exchangers.  I think Jesus even stated that the temple would fall after he got pissed, indeed it did when that region was conqured by someone else, the temple was destroyed but it's foundation was used for another temple, the wailing wall is part of the original foundation.

That temple played the biggest part in Jesus's death.  The real reason Jesus was killed is because of what he did at the temple with the money exchangers, it was the only time Jesus got violent.  He pointed out how wrong it was to do what they were doing at the most important temple on earth.  Several people were making a profit in God's house, not just the money exchangers but the guys running the show in the temple as well, plus the profits were in coins featuring other Gods.  Jesus pointing this out really upset the people making money durring the festival, Romans and Jews alike.  Jesus threatened to put an ding in the buisness operations by his actions, that's why he was really killed.

Also, I get tired of the same old MIS representation of the guy that was pardoned for his crimes instead of Jesus.  That guy was not some murdering mongoloid like he's ALWAY portrayed in the movies.  They guy was a Jewish soldier, I think zealot is the term.  He killed a roman soldier defending himself durring a riot that the romans started.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 10:04:21 AM by WayOutWest »
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

rickortreat

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2005, 10:34:19 AM »
Probably EXACTLY correct WOW, although with so much time passed and the story going through so many people, some with their own agenda's who can know for sure?

In either case, it all seems like so much pointless nonsense to me in terms of God, etc.

Jesus was a man who had integrity and told the truth.  He would tell it like it is.  This is good for the common man, who is taken advantage of in his ignorance.  But to the people in power, such a man is a thorn in their side, the one who threatens to undermine all the benefits they derrrive from concealing the truth from the great unwashed.

By the way, gang, WE ARE THE GREAT UNWASHED!

Which is why I post here, trying to help you all become even more hip and enlightened than you already are, and smart with your money.

 

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2005, 02:09:39 PM »
Quote
Quote
When Emporer Constantine became a "Christian" -- up to this time "Christianity" was severely persecuted -- when he became a "Christian" -- it changed everything.  The rise of the church occured and prominence was given to religion over paganism.
:rofl:
*** Constantine the Great—A Champion of Christianity? ***

Constantine the Great—A Champion of Christianity?

Roman Emperor Constantine is among the few men whose name history has embellished with the term “Great.” Christendom has added the expressions “saint,” “thirteenth apostle,” “holy equal of the apostles,” and ‘chosen by God’s Providence to accomplish the greatest turnabout in the whole world.’ At the other end of the spectrum, some describe Constantine as “bloodstained, stigmatized by countless enormities and full of deceit, . . . a hideous tyrant, guilty of horrid crimes.”

MANY professing Christians have been taught that Constantine the Great was one of Christianity’s most prominent benefactors. They credit him with delivering Christians from the misery of Roman persecution and giving them religious freedom. Moreover, it is widely held that he was a faithful footstep follower of Jesus Christ with a strong desire to advance the Christian cause. The Eastern Orthodox Church and the Coptic Church have declared both Constantine and his mother, Helena, “saints.” Their festival is celebrated on June 3 or according to the church calendar, on May 21.

Who really was Constantine the Great? What was his role in the development of postapostolic Christianity? It is very enlightening to let history and scholars answer these questions.

 The Historical Constantine

Constantine, the son of Constantius Chlorus, was born in Naissus in Serbia about the year 275 C.E. When his father became emperor of Rome’s western provinces in 293 C.E., he was fighting on the Danube under orders from Emperor Galerius. Constantine returned to his dying father’s side in Britain in the year 306 C.E. Soon after his father’s death, Constantine was raised to the status of an emperor by the army.

At that time, five other individuals claimed that they were Augusti. The period between 306 and 324 C.E., after which Constantine became sole imperator, was a time of unremitting civil war. Victory in two sets of campaigns guaranteed Constantine a place in Roman history and made him the sole ruler of the Roman Empire.

In 312 C.E., Constantine defeated his opponent Maxentius in the battle of the Milvian Bridge outside Rome. Christian apologists claimed that during that campaign, there appeared under the sun a flaming cross bearing the Latin words In hoc signo vinces, meaning “In this sign conquer.” It is also held that in a dream, Constantine was told to paint the first two letters of Christ’s name in Greek on the shields of his troops. However, this story suffers from many anachronisms. The book A History of Christianity states: “There is a conflict of evidence about the exact time, place and details of this vision.” Welcoming Constantine in Rome, a pagan Senate declared him chief Augustus and Pontifex Maximus, that is, high priest of the pagan religion of the empire.

In 313 C.E., Constantine arranged a partnership with Emperor Licinius, ruler of the eastern provinces. By means of the Edict of Milan, together they granted freedom of worship and equal rights to all religious groups. Many historians, however, downplay the significance of this document, saying that it was just a routine official letter and not a major imperial document signaling a change of policy toward Christianity.

Within the next ten years, Constantine defeated his last remaining rival, Licinius, and became the undisputed ruler of the Roman world. In 325 C.E., as yet unbaptized, he presided over the first great ecumenical council of the “Christian” church, which condemned Arianism and drew up a statement of essential beliefs called the Nicene Creed.

Constantine fell terminally ill in the year 337 C.E. At that late hour of his life, he was baptized, and then he died. After his death the Senate placed him among the Roman gods.

Religion in Constantine’s Strategy

With reference to the general attitude that Roman emperors of the third and fourth centuries had toward religion, the book Istoria tou Ellinikou Ethnous (History of the Greek Nation) says: “Even when those who occupied the imperial throne did not have such profoundly religious dispositions, surrendering to the mood of the era, they found it necessary to give religion precedence within the framework of their political schemes, to lend at least a religious flavor to their actions.”

Certainly, Constantine was a man of his era. At the beginning of his career, he needed some “divine” patronage, and this could not be provided by the fading Roman gods. The empire, including its religion and other institutions, was in decline, and something new and invigorating was needed to reconsolidate it. The encyclopedia Hidria says: “Constantine was especially interested in Christianity because it backed up not only his victory but also the reorganization of his empire. The Christian churches that existed everywhere became his political support. . . . He surrounded himself with the great prelates of the times . . . , and he requested that they keep their unity intact.”

Constantine sensed that the “Christian” religion—albeit apostate and deeply corrupted by then—could be effectively utilized as a revitalizing and uniting force to serve his grand scheme for imperial domination. Adopting the foundations of apostate Christianity to gain support in furthering his own political ends, he decided to unify the people under one “catholic,” or universal, religion. Pagan customs and celebrations were given “Christian” names. And “Christian” clergymen were given the status, salary, and influential clout of pagan priests.

Seeking religious harmony for political reasons, Constantine quickly crushed any dissenting voices, not on the grounds of doctrinal truth, but on the basis of majority acceptance. The profound dogmatic differences within the badly divided “Christian” church gave him the opportunity to intervene as a “God-sent” mediator. Through his dealings with the Donatists in North Africa and the followers of Arius in the eastern portion of the empire, he quickly discovered that persuasion was not enough to forge a solid, unified faith. It was in an attempt to resolve the Arian controversy that he convened the first ecumenical council in the history of the church.

Concerning Constantine, historian Paul Johnson states: “One of his main reasons for tolerating Christianity may have been that it gave himself and the State the opportunity to control the Church’s policy on orthodoxy and the treatment of heterodoxy.”

Did He Ever Become a Christian?

Johnson notes: “Constantine never abandoned sun-worship and kept the sun on his coins.” The Catholic Encyclopedia observes: “Constantine showed equal favour to both religions. As pontifex maximus he watched over the heathen worship and protected its rights.” “Constantine never became a Christian,” states the encyclopedia Hidria, adding: “Eusebius of Caesarea, who wrote his biography, says that he became a Christian in the last moments of his life. This doesn’t hold water, as the day before, [Constantine] had made a sacrifice to Zeus because he also had the title Pontifex Maximus.”

Down to the day of his death in 337 C.E., Constantine bore the pagan title of Pontifex Maximus, the supreme head of religious matters. Regarding his baptism, it is reasonable to ask, Was it preceded by genuine repentance and a turning around, as required in the Scriptures? (Acts 2:38, 40, 41) Was it a complete water immersion as a symbol of Constantine’s dedication to Jehovah God?—Compare Acts 8:36-39.

A “Saint”?

The Encyclopædia Britannica states: “Constantine was entitled to be called Great in virtue rather of what he did than what he was. Tested by character, indeed, he stands among the lowest of all those to whom the epithet [Great] has in ancient or modern times been applied.” And the book A History of Christianity informs us: “There were early reports of his violent temper and his cruelty in anger. . . . He had no respect for human life . . . His private life became monstrous as he aged.”

Evidently Constantine had serious personality problems. A history researcher states that “his temperamental character was often the reason for his committing crimes.” (See the box “Dynastic Murders.”) Constantine was not “a Christian character,” contends historian H. Fisher in his History of Europe. The facts do not characterize him as a true Christian who had put on “the new personality” and in whom there could be found the fruitage of God’s holy spirit—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control.—Colossians 3:9, 10; Galatians 5:22, 23.

The Consequences of His Efforts

As the pagan Pontifex Maximus—and therefore the religious head of the Roman Empire—Constantine tried to win over the bishops of the apostate church. He offered them positions of power, prominence, and wealth as officers of the Roman State religion. The Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “Some bishops, blinded by the splendour of the court, even went so far as to laud the emperor as an angel of God, as a sacred being, and to prophesy that he would, like the Son of God, reign in heaven.”

As apostate Christianity came into favor with the political government, it became more and more a part of this world, of this secular system, and drifted away from the teachings of Jesus Christ. (John 15:19; 17:14, 16; Revelation 17:1, 2) As a result, there was a fusion of “Christianity” with false doctrines and practices—the Trinity, immortality of the soul, hellfire, purgatory, prayers for the dead, use of rosaries, icons, images, and the like.—Compare 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

From Constantine, the church also inherited the tendency to be authoritarian. Scholars Henderson and Buck say: “The simplicity of the Gospel was corrupted, pompous rites and ceremonies were introduced, worldly honours and emoluments were conferred on the teachers of Christianity, and the Kingdom of Christ in good measure converted into a kingdom of this world.”

Where Is True Christianity?

Historical facts reveal the truth behind the “greatness” of Constantine. Instead of being founded by Jesus Christ, the Head of the true Christian congregation, Christendom is partly the result of the political expediency and the crafty maneuvers of a pagan emperor. Very aptly, historian Paul Johnson asks: “Did the empire surrender to Christianity, or did Christianity prostitute itself to the empire?”

Donatism was a “Christian” sect of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E. Its adherents claimed that the validity of the sacraments depends on the moral character of the minister and that the church must exclude from its membership people guilty of serious sin. Arianism was a “Christian” movement of the fourth century that denied the divinity of Jesus Christ. Arius taught that God is unbegotten and without a beginning. The Son, because he is begotten, cannot be God in the same sense that the Father is. The Son did not exist from all eternity but was created and exists by the will of the Father.

Constantine and the Council of Nicaea

  What role did the unbaptized Emperor Constantine play at the Council of Nicaea? The Encyclopædia Britannica states: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”

  After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those who said that Jesus was God. But why? “Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology,” says A Short History of Christian Doctrine. What he did understand was that religious division was a threat to his empire, and he was determined to solidify his empire.

  Regarding the final document that was drafted in Nicaea under Constantine’s auspices, Istoria tou Ellinikou Ethnous (History of the Greek Nation) observes: “It shows [Constantine’s] indifference to doctrinal matters, . . . his stubborn insistence in trying to restore unity within the church at any cost, and finally his conviction that as ‘bishop of those outside the church’ he had the final say about any religious matter.” Could God’s spirit possibly have been behind the decisions made at that council?—Compare Acts 15:28, 29.

Dynastic Murders

  Under this heading, the work Istoria tou Ellinikou Ethnous (History of the Greek Nation) describes what it calls “disgusting domestic crimes that Constantine committed.” Soon after founding his dynasty, he forgot how to enjoy unexpected achievement and became aware of the dangers surrounding him. Being a suspicious person and perhaps egged on by sycophants, he first grew suspicious of his nephew Licinianus—the son of a co-Augustus he had already executed—as a possible rival. His murder was followed by the execution of Constantine’s own firstborn son, Crispus, who was dealt with by his stepmother Fausta because he seemed to be an obstruction to her own offspring’s total power.

  This action of Fausta was finally the reason for her own dramatic death. It appears that Augusta Helena, who had influence over her son Constantine until the end, was involved in this murder. The illogical emotions that often controlled Constantine also contributed to the spate of executions of many of his friends and associates. The book History of the Middle Ages concludes: “The execution—not to say murder—of his own son and his wife indicates that he was untouched by any spiritual influence in Christianity.”
Reality,

I don't have a lot of time to respond -- unfortunately I won't for several weeks still -- it's a busy time!

However, please note where I stated this:

Quote
Constantine the Great—A Champion of Christianity?

I wouldn't agree with such a statement.  Constantine is a lot like a bunch of others who adopt a "religion" -- however, my comments are STILL quite true.  Constantines adoption of the "Christian" religion propelled the church and christiantity into popularity (formerly it had been quite persecuted).  When he changed over, he changed over pagan holidays to religious ones -- which was not all that uncommon in the time (since emporers and rulers pretty much did as they wished).  


As for your comments on the cross:

1) Romans were the ONLY people allowed to perform a crucifixion -- it's the reason that the Jews went to Pilate -- Herod couldn't sentence Jesus to be crucified -- Pilate was the only one who could actually have that carried out.

2) Romans used dual beams (did it look like todays cross?  Personally, I doubt it -- it was probably more like a T than it was our modern cross.

3) Crosses have been found on the tombstones and catacombs of martyrs -- including some that have been dated back to the first century.

The word used for "stauros" can be interpreted as a stake -- however, it can also be interpreted as more than just a stake.  It's like todays words -- many have a main meaning but their are other meanings in which the word is used as well (i.e. 2nd, 3rd, definitions for the same word).  

Quote
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology says this about the Greek stauros:

Corresponding to the vb. (stauroo) which was more common, stauros can mean a stake which was sometimes pointed on which an executed criminal was publicly displayed in shame as a further punishment. It could be used for hanging (so probably Diod. Sic., 2, 18, 2), impaling, or strangulation. stauros could also be an instrument of torture, perhaps in the sense of the Lat. patibulum, a crossbeam laid on the shoulders. Finally it could be an instrument of execution in the form of a vertical stake and a crossbeam of the same length forming a cross in the narrower sense of the term. It took the form either of a T (Lat. crux commissa) or of a + (crux immissa). (Vol. 1, page 391)

The Greek word xylon can mean "wood, a piece of wood, or anything made of wood," and can refer to a cross as well, as pointed out in Vine's Expository Dictionary, Vol. 4, p. 153.

Here is some basic research that has been done and is available ALL over the web -- from wikipedia.com.

Quote
Crucifixion is an ancient method of execution, where the victim was tied or nailed to a large wooden cross (Latin: crux) and left to hang there until dead. It was a fairly common form of execution from the 6th century BC, especially among the Persians, Egyptians, Carthaginians, and Romans, until c. 313 AD, when Christianity became the dominant faith in Rome. Crucifixion has special significance in Christianity as Jesus was put to death by the Romans by being nailed to a cross. The cross or the crucifix has become the main Christian symbol.

Cross shape
The horizontal beam of the cross, or transom, could be fixed at the very top of the vertical piece, the upright, to form a capital T called a tau cross or Saint Anthony's cross. The horizontal beam could also be affixed at some distance below the top, often in a mortise, to form a lowercase t-shape called a Latin cross, more often depicted in Christian imagery. Alternatively, the cross could consist of two diagonal beams to form an X, alternatively known as the decussate cross (after decem, Latin for 'ten', insofar as 'X' is the Roman numeral for ten) or as Saint Andrew's cross. (This shape may be recognized from its white-on-blue manifestation in the flag of Scotland.)

For reasons of simplicity, a single, upright wooden pole (crux simplex), with no transom at all, was also often used for ancient crucifixions; the original Greek word for "cross" (stauros) is generally understood to indicate a simple upright pole or stake. On such, malefactors were nailed for execution.

Both the noun, and the verb staurein, "to fasten to a stake or pole", are distinct from the ecclesiastical symbol of the two-beamed "cross". According to some theories, the shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Babylonia as the symbol of the god Tammuz, being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the Greek initial of his name. By the middle of the 3rd century AD, pagans received into the churches sometimes retained their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, with the cross-piece lowered, is said to have been adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ. Of course, this theory that the cross symbol was adopted purely as a symbol from pagan practice seemingly overlooks all the archaeological and literary evidence discussed elsewhere in this article, that actual crosses were indeed used as a very real means of execution.

The fact is that Romans used the T shaped version of the cross to do their crucifixions -- in fact, I'm not aware of ANY documented evidence that shows them utilizing simply a "stake" -- Romans were the only ones who could crucify someone in the world they ruled so I think to state that Jesus was crucified to a stake simply because that's the main definition overlooks other uses of the word and historical data itself.
 

Offline Reality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
    • Email
Controversial Lawsuit against Utah Highway Patrol
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2005, 12:37:53 PM »
Quote
That temple played the biggest part in Jesus's death.  The real reason Jesus was killed is because of what he did at the temple with the money exchangers, it was the only time Jesus got violent.  He pointed out how wrong it was to do what they were doing at the most important temple on earth.  Several people were making a profit in God's house, not just the money exchangers but the guys running the show in the temple as well, plus the profits were in coins featuring other Gods.  Jesus pointing this out really upset the people making money durring the festival, Romans and Jews alike.  Jesus threatened to put an ding in the buisness operations by his actions, that's why he was really killed.

Also, I get tired of the same old MIS representation of the guy that was pardoned for his crimes instead of Jesus.  That guy was not some murdering mongoloid like he's ALWAY portrayed in the movies.  They guy was a Jewish soldier, I think zealot is the term.  He killed a roman soldier defending himself durring a riot that the romans started.
The thought of the real reason for Jesus dying was to present a randsom sacrifice?

Perfect man Adam (pre sin) for perfect man Jesus.  Thus mankind bought back.

2.  What are you basing your info on? :huh:   His name was Bar·ab´bas.  The imprisoned criminal guilty of robbery, sedition, and murder whom Pilate set free in place of Jesus. Pilate did this, “wishing to satisfy the crowd” who clamored for the release of Barabbas at the insistence of the chief priests and older men.

This unique custom of releasing a prisoner on the eve of the Passover every year finds no basis or precedent in the Hebrew Scriptures, and there is no extrabiblical evidence of it as a Roman practice. It evidently was of Jewish origin, because Pilate said to the Jews: “You have a custom that I should release a man to you at the passover.”—Joh 18:39.