Author Topic: Rebounds = Rings  (Read 5286 times)

Offline Reality

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Rebounds = Rings
« on: November 30, 2005, 01:50:39 PM »
Joe, you asked earlier.  "When was the last time a champion got out-rebounded in the Finals?"  
1 1998 Utah 228 - 226 Bulls of Jordan last.
2 1997 Utah 245-242 Bulls
3 1995 Orlando 184 - Hou 173
4 1994 NYK 301-279 Houston

5 1992 Portland 248-227 Bulls
61986 Celtics 264-273 Rockets Twin Towers. &
71985 Lakers 256-259 Celts *Bob Parish injured.

While 'bound stats are important....Seems like the most telling stat was field goal percentage. :nod:  

Like Lakers literally +1 rebounds for the entire 6 games vs Pacers.  Several more similiar years.

Here 'tis a start (site only goes to 2002, other has ave for '05).
2005 Spurs ave 41.7 - 39.3 Det
2004 Det 45.6 - 40.6 Lakers
2003 Spurs 45.8-42.3 Nets
2001 Lakers 227-216 Philly.
248-247 year 2000 Finals. That is how much the Most Dominant Ever was.
1999 Spurs 193-191 NYK

1998 Utah 228 - 226 Bulls of Jordan last.
1997 Utah 245-242 Bulls
1996 Bulls 237-233 Sonics (* asterisk by this stat, year of flopping clown Rodman, it wasn't basketball.)
1995 Orlando 184 - Hou 173
1994 NYK 301-279 Houston
1991 Bulls 196 - 178 Lakers Vlade

Golden years.
1986 Celts 264 - 273 Twin Towers Rockets
1985 Lakers 256 - Celts 259 Bob Parish injured by Kupkake supercheapie
1984 Celts 337 - 301 Lakers
1983 Sixers 191 - 171 Lakers
1982 Lakers 284-238 Sixers year before Mo.
1981 Celts 284-256 Rockets altho Mo Malone cleaned the O boards.

1979 Seattle Superdoopers 234-233 WA Bullets.  Another +1 year.  (This Sea team would have gone for years.  Refused to sign Gus Williams for 1980.  Travesty.  One of worst ownership moves in NBA history.)
1973 Lakers 262-232 NYKnicks.  Wilt the Stilt snapping down 18 per game.

Could you guys look up some more, including up till 2005.  I'm getting tired, coffee break.
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 06:18:35 PM by Reality »

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2005, 01:59:27 PM »
I dunno if its directly related to where a good rebounding team means a team is going to get a ring.  You do however have to control the glass which in turn controls the tempo which in turn is a major part of your game plan.  If you do not get to play at the tempo which benefits your squad more likely than not you will lose, especially in a 7 game series.

Defense wins championships and rebounding well is part of your defense.
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rickortreat

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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2005, 02:40:11 PM »
By the time teams get to the finals, all the weak teams have been weeded out.  By definition the top two teams in the league are decent rebounders.

The biggest stat to me is the point differential between the amount your team scores, and the amount your opponnents average.  The larger the difference in your team's favor the better they are.

The Sixers this year are still a work in progress, they are not a consistent team, so it's hard to use the stats with any reliability.  So far, they are a very good scoring team, but a poor defending team and a weak rebounder.  The point differential is pratically negative, meaning teams score more on them then vice-versa.

If they can learn to rebound and defend, you'll see the improvement in that stat.

To me, the most important quality in a Championship team is not defense, it's having a player on your team that cannot be stopped.  He will either score or get to the line at the end of the game.  That's what wins championships, and why Center is the most important position.  A player like AI can try to score at the end of the game, but get fouled and the ref won't call it, it happens so fast hardly anyone will see it, and the refs let teams play a bit more physical in the finals.  Shaq on the other hand, or even Duncan, you have to hit with a club to make them miss.  The refs will call that everytime.

Offline Reality

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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2005, 03:32:12 PM »
At presstime thusfar it's 14-6 rebound winners.

The 6ers sure woke up last night, albeit against sleeping Portland.  60-30 board advantage. :eek2:

No rt, defense wins championships.  Just look at the current Houston Rockets.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 04:00:58 PM by Reality »

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2005, 04:00:53 PM »
Quote
By the time teams get to the finals, all the weak teams have been weeded out.  By definition the top two teams in the league are decent rebounders.

The biggest stat to me is the point differential between the amount your team scores, and the amount your opponnents average.  The larger the difference in your team's favor the better they are.

The Sixers this year are still a work in progress, they are not a consistent team, so it's hard to use the stats with any reliability.  So far, they are a very good scoring team, but a poor defending team and a weak rebounder.  The point differential is pratically negative, meaning teams score more on them then vice-versa.

If they can learn to rebound and defend, you'll see the improvement in that stat.

To me, the most important quality in a Championship team is not defense, it's having a player on your team that cannot be stopped.  He will either score or get to the line at the end of the game.  That's what wins championships, and why Center is the most important position.  A player like AI can try to score at the end of the game, but get fouled and the ref won't call it, it happens so fast hardly anyone will see it, and the refs let teams play a bit more physical in the finals.  Shaq on the other hand, or even Duncan, you have to hit with a club to make them miss.  The refs will call that everytime.
Is the only thing you look at in basketball is who scores the most points?   :huh:

Oh, it is -- that's right -- you are an AI fan!!!  :rofl:  

Offline Reality

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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2005, 04:02:13 PM »


Oh, it is -- that's right -- you are an AI fan!!!  :rofl: [/QUOTE]
Yes.  Kobe outscored GNob 25-22 last night.  Which to you means outplayed.  
Give us your breakdown.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 04:03:09 PM by Reality »

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2005, 04:02:50 PM »
Reality,

You need to look at this on a game-by-game basis rather than a whole series.  Rebounding is HUGE -- Philly was beating EVERYONE the came in contact with during their championship year -- because they were a MUCH better rebounding/defensive team -- however, the Lakers were a better rebounding and defensive team and with the exception of game #1, the series was pretty much a blowout!

rickortreat

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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2005, 04:04:53 PM »
Basketball isn't Football.  In the NBA defense does not win championships.

Defense in basketball is sort of a joke anyway.  It is very hard to stop a decent player from scoring without fouling.  You can block shots, but if the ball goes back to the oppossing team, that doesn't help much.  Steals are underrated IMO, they are a 4 pt. swing: the points the other team would have scored, and the points you get after the steal turns into a fastbreak opportunity for you.

The rest of it is simply helping the other team miss their shots, by forcing them to shoot lower percentage ones, or working hard throught the 24 second-clock to get a shot.

The reality of defense is in forcing turnovers, and preventing second-chance shots.  But Scoring is what wins championships in the NBA.  Teams that can execute in the half-court consistently are the ones that win NBA championships.  Name one team that has won a championship without executing in the half court and I'll believe you.  

Offline Reality

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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2005, 04:08:17 PM »
14-7

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 04:11:23 PM »
Quote
Name one team that has won a championship without executing in the half court and I'll believe you.
1987 Los Angeles Lakers

They did not execute in the half court, they just ran the Celts off the court.  In Finals games were it came down to a half court grind the Lakers were 1-2 (Game 3-Loss, 4-Win & 5-Loss).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 04:12:24 PM by WayOutWest »
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Guest_Randy

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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2005, 04:11:28 PM »
Quote
Basketball isn't Football.  In the NBA defense does not win championships.

Defense in basketball is sort of a joke anyway.  It is very hard to stop a decent player from scoring without fouling.  You can block shots, but if the ball goes back to the oppossing team, that doesn't help much.  Steals are underrated IMO, they are a 4 pt. swing: the points the other team would have scored, and the points you get after the steal turns into a fastbreak opportunity for you.

The rest of it is simply helping the other team miss their shots, by forcing them to shoot lower percentage ones, or working hard throught the 24 second-clock to get a shot.

The reality of defense is in forcing turnovers, and preventing second-chance shots.  But Scoring is what wins championships in the NBA.  Teams that can execute in the half-court consistently are the ones that win NBA championships.  Name one team that has won a championship without executing in the half court and I'll believe you.
This is kind of FUNNY coming from a Sixer fan!  The CLOSEST that the Sixers have EVER gotten to a championship since the days of Dr. J is BECAUSE of defense and rebounding!  

Quote
Defense in basketball is sort of a joke anyway.

So I guess the Sixers EC Championship banner is a joke!  'Cause the Sixers certainly didn't win that banner with their offense!

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2005, 04:22:03 PM »
Since we are quizing people in this thread.......

Who can name a championship team that did not play good defense that year???

You cannot argue that defense is more important than offense for the simple fact that offense comes and goes.  Defense doesnt.
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rickortreat

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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 05:12:43 PM »
Quote
QUOTE (rickortreat @ Nov 30 2005, 09:04 PM)
Name one team that has won a championship without executing in the half court and I'll believe you.

1987 Los Angeles Lakers

They did not execute in the half court, they just ran the Celts off the court. In Finals games were it came down to a half court grind the Lakers were 1-2 (Game 3-Loss, 4-Win & 5-Loss).

Those were two of the best post-up scoring teams ever.  Kareem and his skyhook, Worthy and his above the rim play.  Kevin McHale in the post, rebounding by the Chief and tremendous passing inside and out by Larry Bird.

Simply because the Celtics were as good if not better in the half-court game, didn't make up for their deficiencies in stopping the Lakers from running- ELIMINATING THE DEFENCE ENTIRELY!!!!

Only because the Lakers could get more rebounds and get magic loose on the break did they win that series.  It may not have been half-court, but it was OFFENSE, wasn't it?

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 05:18:02 PM »
Quote
Quote
QUOTE (rickortreat @ Nov 30 2005, 09:04 PM)
Name one team that has won a championship without executing in the half court and I'll believe you.

1987 Los Angeles Lakers

They did not execute in the half court, they just ran the Celts off the court. In Finals games were it came down to a half court grind the Lakers were 1-2 (Game 3-Loss, 4-Win & 5-Loss).

Those were two of the best post-up scoring teams ever.  Kareem and his skyhook, Worthy and his above the rim play.  Kevin McHale in the post, rebounding by the Chief and tremendous passing inside and out by Larry Bird.

Simply because the Celtics were as good if not better in the half-court game, didn't make up for their deficiencies in stopping the Lakers from running- ELIMINATING THE DEFENCE ENTIRELY!!!!

Only because the Lakers could get more rebounds and get magic loose on the break did they win that series.  It may not have been half-court, but it was OFFENSE, wasn't it?
Well, if you're going to change your criteria every time somone gives you the proof you ask then what's the point.
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Rebounds = Rings
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 05:18:57 PM »
Total # of rebounds isn't a good stat to look at.  fg%, ftm's, to's, all effect total rebounds.  Rebounding % (defensive and offensive) is the key rebounding stat.