6ers

[Reality]

What came down?

A one game erasure of what they have been doing.

13-30 / 5 assists AI said it was all about the rebounding. :rolleyes:  

[rickortreat]

It's scoring. It's almost allways about the scoring!

They scored 60 points in the first half, and then only managed 37 points the rest of the way.

The Sixers stopped playing basketball as a team and broke down on the offense. None of the individual players had a good game, when Webber is shooting 30% the team needs Salmons, Igoudala and Korver to step up.  Last night, they weren't able to get it done. Igoudala was in foul trouble the whole night, and only managed 5 points.  Korver put up only 8.

The Bucks dominated the boards and got all the second shots.  They also got to the foul line 8 more times.

I think the real problem is that the Sixers are weak in the front court with Webber, Korver and  Hunter.  They just aren't competitive with some of the other teams in the league when it comes to rebounding or interior defense.  Dalembert comming back will help, but Cheeks is going to have to find someone who gets more rebounds than Korver into the lineup.  

The problem is who can Cheeks use instead.  He could try Bradley who is 6-'9, Nailon 6-'8, Thomas 6-'8 or Deng Gai a 6-'9 rookie.  None of them can give them the outside scoring Korver can, but I'd sacrifice that some of the time for better defense and rebounding.  

 

[dbodner-lazy]

13-30 / 5 assists AI said it was all about the rebounding

Did you watch the game?  They got pounded on the boards in the 2nd half.  Absolutely sickening.

[Reality]

13-30 / 5 assists AI said it was all about the rebounding

Did you watch the game?  They got pounded on the boards in the 2nd half.  Absolutely sickening.

No and i had a brain fart when i read AIs stats.  13-30 is only two shots removed from 50%.  I had it at less then 33%.  Don't ask. B)

Still its a mega departure from the ball sharing they had in "the streak".  And yes i see the rebound stats and you saw the game on the screen so...

3rd qtr what a reversal.

On to tonight, i wanna see what happens with Dallas-Miami.

[rickortreat]

It got to the point where it hurt to watch.  But the simple fact is, even without the rebounding, they could have won the game.  All they needed to do was execute consistently when they had the ball.

AI was fine, it was everyone else on the team that wasn't working hard on the offensive end.  This team is capable of putting up 120 points on almost every team in the league.  Most of the other teams cannot score that many points consistently.  

There's a simple truth to basketball, which is that everytime you score, your opponent gets the ball.  Once your ahead, all you have to do is score every time down and you win.  So I'm less concerned about rebounding and defence than I am with offensive consistency.

When the Sixers are sharing the ball, running plays and working hard to get good looks, there are few teams that can stay with them.  Most of the time when they loose, it's because the other team takes them out of their game.  I think that what really happens is that the Sixers regress into a "me" team, too many players trying to do it one their own, rather than being successful as a group.  It's very easy for this to happen, since AI is happy to take every shot in a game if he can.  IMO, Cheeks has to force the team to run plays when that happens, just demand that they run the same plays over and over again until the other team stops them.  

If Cheecks can impose that discipline on them, they will be fine, even with their limitations.  But the margin for error will be small as long as they can't rebound or defend.  

[Reality]

There's a simple truth to basketball, which is that everytime you score, your opponent gets the ball.  Once your ahead, all you have to do is score every time down and you win.

Simply scoring everytime down the floor.  Sounds good.

Is this truth created or did it evolve?

[Skandery]

Is this truth created or did it evolve?

It was Intelligently Designed by James Naismith's Invisible Pink Unicorn.

[Skandery]

There's a simple truth to basketball, which is that everytime you score, your opponent gets the ball. Once your ahead, all you have to do is score every time down and you win.

You know which simple truth I prefer, you only have to score a single field goal or a single free throw to win a game provided you never let the other team score.

[Joe Vancil]

There's a simple truth to basketball, which is that everytime you score, your opponent gets the ball. Once your ahead, all you have to do is score every time down and you win. So I'm less concerned about rebounding and defence than I am with offensive consistency.

Except that that's not true.

The advent of the 3-pointer makes it possible to be up by four, come down and be up by 1.  Go down and score 2.  Come back and be even.  Go down, score, and be up by 2.  Come back down, and be down 1.

Rebounding is what takes advantage of missed shots.  And defense is what keeps "offensive consistency" to a low rate.  Rebounding and defense are CRUCIAL to winning.

When was the last time a champion got out-rebounded in the Finals?

 

[rickortreat]

OK, Joe, that's true, except that as long as your team scores in whatever way the team you're ahead of does, your team wins.

Obviously, that's not the road to a championship, but it is a way for the Sixers to win and overcome their current deficiencies.

In their last game against the Knicks, they lost the same way they have in the last few: run out to a double-digit lead in the first half. Score at least 60 pts.  Then have your offense fall apart in the 3rd quarter and loose your lead.

 :angry:

It's just too stupid to belive that other teams can adjust so thoroughly to what the Sixers are doing to score that they can shut them down like that.  It's far more likely, that the Sixers stop working as hard, swinging the ball to the open man, making the shot and staying in or ahead in the game.

Rebounding will be a problem for this team unless one of the young players steps up in the power forward slot, and pushes Webber to small forward.  That will create defensive problems as well.....

In the meantime, the solution is simple, outscore the other team!

[Joe Vancil]

Move Webber to the SMALL forward?

You were closer with the "score every time down the court" idea.  That one at least has a chance of working.

Webber hasn't been a small forward since he broke into the league, yet he's produced good rebounding numbers every year.  This year, he's at 19.7 points and 10.0 rebounds.  If your power forward is getting you 20/10, why are you moving HIM to improve your rebounding?

Far more likely, it's doubling Hunter's minutes and getting an additional 1.9 rebounds out of that, for a whopping 4.9 boards per game.

Far more likely, it's Kyle Korver getting an additional minutes, but dropping back half a rebound a game to 4.1 boards per game.

Philadelphia has to choose: Korver's shooting, Iguodala's defense, or additional rebounding - choose two.
 

[Derek Bodner]

Philadelphia has to choose: Korver's shooting, Iguodala's defense, or additional rebounding - choose two.

Unfortunately we don't have a better rebounder that can play SF than Kyle Korver, sadly.

[Joe Vancil]

Sure you do;  you've got Lee Nailon.

Of course, that's going to mess with your offense, because Nailon's effective range offensively is somewhere in the realm of my vertical jump.  But he's a good low-post scorer and a good rebounder.

[Skandery]

Sure you do; you've got Lee Nailon.

Of course, that's going to mess with your offense, because Nailon's effective range offensively is somewhere in the realm of my vertical jump. But he's a good low-post scorer and a good rebounder.

Actually sad to say, Lee Nailon isn't an upgrade over Korver in the rebounding department.  Having seen unprecedented playing time (30 mpg) last year in New Orleans, he averaged 4.4 rpg.  Korver averaged 4.6 rpg at around 32.5 mpg.  So yeah, not much of an upgrade.  

And as far as scoring, Nailon is quite the proficient mid-range scorer, most of his 14 ppg last year came from 15-18 ft jumpers.  He doesn't have an array of established low-post moves ala Corliss Williamson but does well enough scoring in the low post.  By no means is it his offensive game, though.        

[Skandery]

Obviously, that's not the road to a championship, but it is a way for the Sixers to win and overcome their current deficiencies.

I know from my experience as a basketball player that scoring the basketball is a very dicey proposition.  There have been numerous shots where I was in rhythm, feet set, good rotation, height on the jump, <CLANG> a centimeter short or long.  

You cannot simply address the woes of a slumping team or a slumping player by saying, "Just score everytime!!"  Wilt Chamberlain, the most dominant scorer the NBA has ever seen, at his most dominant was what 65% from the field.  That is missing 1 out of every 3 shots.  And it ain't like he's hoisting from very far.  No matter how good of a shooting team you are there are going to be off nights, let alone the level of defensive competition in the Professional game.  

I believe the only thing you can do is try your best to hold the other team to 1 shot (defensive rebounding), and give yourself multiple opportunities to score (offensive rebounding).  Defense is there to make the 1 shot you hold them to, not a very good shot.  I think even a talented scoring team like the Philadelphia would hold onto a lot more leads if they increased their defensive intensity and defensive rebounding ability, EVEN just a little.  I'm not saying turn into the Pistons or the Spurs, just improve that part of your team effort.  I think that's better than saying, "What, you lost 125 to 122, why don't you score 130 next time!"  

In short, I agree with Joe, you need 1) Rebounding and 2) Defense to win consistently.

Everyone talks about Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis in Seattle's storybook season.  People forget that Reggie Evans, Nick Collison, Jerome James, and Vitaly Potapenko did ABSOLUTELY nothing for the team except rebound and defend.