Author Topic: Western Conference offseason scorecard  (Read 2348 times)

Offline ziggy

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Western Conference offseason scorecard
« on: September 08, 2005, 07:42:30 PM »
This is from about.com,
http://probasketball.about.com/od/newsrumo...offseason05.htm
and I will do the Eastern Conference soon.  Recognize that all the grades of B, are shown as a smilie, so when you see one it is a B.  That is something this board did.

Any opinions?


Rankings
Memphis Grizzlies
Portland Trailblazers
Seattle Sonics
Utah Jazz
Sacramento Kings
Phoenix Suns
San Antonio Spurs
Houston Rockets
Golden State Warriors
New Orleans Hornets
Minnesota Timberwolves
LA Clippers
Denver Nuggets
Dallas Mavericks
LA Lakers


DALLAS MAVERICKS (Overall Grade: C-)
Best Move: Mark Cuban embraced a little fiscal responsibility and parted ways with Michael Finley, one of the franchise's greats but a guy who makes too much money and produces nothing but jump shots.
Worst Move: What's Doug Christie bringing to the table that you're willing to invite his wife along to dinner with him?

Drafted (Grade: N/A)
None

Signed (Grade: C)
Christie, SG, Orlando
DeSagana Diop, C, Cleveland
Darrell Armstrong, PG (Re-signed)
Josh Powell, PF (Undrafted rookie/2004)
Rawle Marshall, SG (Undrafted rookie)

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Finley, SG, San Antonio
Shawn Bradley, C (Retired)

New Rotation:
SF: Josh Howard
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Erick Dampier
SG: Marquis Daniels
PG: Jason Terry
6th Man: Jerry Stackhouse

DENVER NUGGETS (Overall Grade: C)

Best Move: Drafting a pair of guys in Round 1 with a little fight in 'em.
Worst Move: We're still waiting for the Nuggets to find a guy who can hit from outside -- and not the one-dimensional, Wesley Person-types either.

Drafted (Grade: B-)
1. 20) Julius Hodge, SG, North Carolina State
1. (27) Linas Kleiza, SF/PF, Missouri
2. (35) Ricky Sanchez, PF/C, IMG Academy
2. (52) Axel Herville, PF, Belgium

Signed (Grade: N/A)
Luke Schenscher, C (Undrafted rookie)

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
None.

New Rotation:
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Kenyon Martin
C: Marcus Camby
SG: Voshon Lenard
PG: Andre Miller
6th Man: Earl Boykins

GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS (Overall Grade: B-)

Best Move: Easy ... not spending any money after last summer's vapid gluttony.
Worst Move: There's some congestion at the swing positions and Mike Dunleavy never delivered, so it's time to move him before Chris Mullin mulls another ridiculous contract extension for him.

Drafted (Grade: B  )
1. (9) Ike Diogu, PF, Arizona State
2. (40) Monta Ellis, PG/SG, High School
2. (42) Chris Taft, PF, Pittsburgh

Signed (Grade: N/A)
None.

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Nikoloz Tskitishvili, SF, Minnesota
Rodney White, SF (Released)

New Rotation:
SF: Dunleavy
PF: Troy Murphy
C: Adonal Foyle
SG: Jason Richardson
PG: Baron Davis
6th Man: Mickael Pietrus

HOUSTON ROCKETS (Overall Grade: B-)
Best Move: You're nuts if you think Stromile Swift now becomes a regular 18-point, 10-rebound stud -- but he does fit the profile of exactly the power forward Houston needed with his athleticism and ability to make things happen amid chaos.
Worst Move: We're not saying Luther Head is a bad player, but did the Rockets really need another combo guard? And are they really considering signing Nick Van Exel to further crowd things?

Drafted (Grade: C-)
1. (24) Head, PG/SG, Illinois

Signed (Grade: B+)
Swift, PF, Memphis
Derek Anderson, SG, Portland
Dikembe Mutombo, C, (Re-signed)
Jon Barry, PG/SG, (Re-signed)
Ryan Bowen, SF, (Re-signed)

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Scott Padgett, SF/PF, Phoenix
Clarence Weatherspoon, SF/PF (Released)

New Rotation:
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Swift
C: Yao Ming
SG: David Wesley
PG: Bob Sura
6th Man: Mike James

LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS (Overall Grade: C+)

Best Move: The Clippers needed a conscience-less outside shooter to hang around outside and chuck. They got two: Cuttino Mobley and Sam Cassell. Who knows is they can co-exist, but Cassell has a history of excelling his first year in new surroundings in order to score a new contract.
Worst Move: All those consonants must make Elgin Baylor dizzy because the Clippers inexplicably drafted Yaroslav Korolev way too high and with far better prospects still on the board, then gave Zeljko Rebraca $9 million over three years in exchange for six points and three rebounds a night.

Drafted (Grade: D)
1. (12) Yaroslav Korolev, SF, Russia
2. (32) Daniel Ewing, PG, Duke

Signed (Grade: B  )
Cuttino Mobley, SG, Sacramento
Zeljko Rebraca, C, (Re-signed)

Acquired (Grade: B  )
Sam Cassell, PG, Minnesota

Lost
Bobby Simmons, SG/SF, Milwaukee
Marko Jaric, PG/SG, Minnesota
Kerry Kittles, SG (Waived)
Rick Brunson, PG, Seattle
Mikki Moore, C, Seattle
Lionel Chalmers, PG, Minnesota
Mamadou N'Diaye, C (Waived)

New Rotation:
SF: Corey Maggette
PF: Elton Brand
C: Chris Kaman
SG: Mobley
PG: Sam Cassell
6th Man: Shaun Livingston

LOS ANGELES LAKERS (Overall Grade: C-)
Best Move: Kobe Bryant answers to only one man and it's Phil Jackson, and although they'll be bumps along the way, Jackson will keep him accountable.
Worst Move: If Kwame Brown wilted under the heat that Michael Jordan put on him, how do you expect him to thrive with Bryant riding him?

Drafted (Grade: D)
1. (10) Andrew Bynum, C, High School
2. (37) Ronny Turiaf, PF, Gonzaga
2. (39) Von Wafer, SG, Florida St.

Signed (Grade: B-)
Aaron McKie, SG, Philadelphia
Luke Walton, SF, (Re-signed)
Smush Parker, PG, Phoenix

Acquired (Grade: D)
Brown, PF/C, Washington
Laron Profit, SF, Washington

Lost
Caron Bulter, SF, Washington
Chucky Atkins, PG, Washington
Brian Grant, PF/C (Waived)

New Rotation:
SF: Lamar Odom
PF: Brown
C: Chris Mihm
SG: Bryant
PG: Sasha Vujacic
6th Man: Walton

MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES (Overall Grade: B+)

Best Move: Professionalism proved not to be the Grizzlies' strong point last season and so getting rid of the chief instigator, Jason Williams, and replacing him with one of the biggest winners in the game, Bobby Jackson, was a wise step in the right direction.
Worst Move: Taking on the unsightly contract of Eddie Jones and parting ways with the underrated James Posey were tough concessions to get Williams out of town.
Why not finish the job and throw malcontent Lorenzen Wright into the mix instead?
Drafted (Grade: B+)
1. (19) Hakim Warrick, SF, Syracuse
2. (55) Lawrence Roberts, PF, Mississippi State (via trade w/Seattle)

Signed (Grade: B+)
Damon Stoudamire, PG, Portland

Acquired (Grade: B  )
Jones, SG, Miami
Jackson, PG/SG, Sacramento
Raul Lopez, PG, Utah

Lost
Stromile Swift, PF, Houston
Williams, PG, Miami
Posey, SG/SF, Miami
Wells, SG/SF, Sacramento
Andre Emmett, PG/SG, Miami

New Rotation:
SF: Mike Miller
PF: Pau Gasol
C: Wright
SG: Jones
PG: Stoudamire
6th Man: Jackson

MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES (Overall Grade: C+)

Best Move: Talk about killing two birds with one stone: Marko Jaric was a hot commodity on the market after finally realizing his potential as an impact combo guard last season, while Sam Cassell was shaping up to sabotage the team again this season after failing to get a contract extension.
Worst Move: Overhauling the team to make it more professional is a step in the right direction -- that's what makes the drafting of Rashad McCants and his arsenal of "the dog ate my homework/my stomach hurts" excuses so confounding.

Drafted (Grade: C-)
1. (14) McCants, SG, North Carolina
2. (47) Bracey Wright, SG, Indiana

Signed (Grade: C-)
Eddie Griffin, SF/PF (Re-signed)
Mark Madsen, PF (Re-signed)
Nikoloz Tskitishvili, SF, Golden State
Dwayne Jones, C (Undrafted rookie)

Acquired (Grade: A-)
Jaric, PG, L.A. Clippers
Lionel Chalmers, PG, L.A. Clippers

Lost
Cassell, PG, L.A. Clippers
Fred Hoiberg, SG (Heart surgery)
Ervin Johnson, C, Milwaukee

New Rotation:
SF: Wally Szczerbiak
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Michael Olowokandi
SG: Trenton Hassell
PG: Marko Jaric
6th Man: Griffin

NEW ORLEANS HORNETS (Overall Grade: B-)

Best Move: The Hornets continue to stockpile young, inexpensive talent with the intent of throwing them in the pool to see if they'll sink or swim. New Orleans is maintaining a realistic outlook on its present while building for a bigger and better tomorrow.
Worst Move: Did Bostjan Nachbar and Chris Andersen show anything to warrant lengthy contract extensions of three and four years, respectively?

Drafted (Grade: B  )
1. (4) Chris Paul, PG, Wake Forest
1. (33) Brandon Bass, PF, LSU

Signed (Grade: C+)
Arvydas Macijauskas, SG/SF, Lithuania
Nachbar, SG/SF, (Re-signed)
Andersen, PF/C, (Re-signed)

Acquired (Grade: C+)
Rasual Butler, SF, Miami
Kirk Snyder, SG, Utah

Lost
Roberto Duenas, C, Miami

New Rotation:
SF: J.R. Smith
PF: P.J. Brown
C: Jamaal Magloire
SG: Macijauskas
PG: Paul
6th Man: Butler

PHOENIX SUNS (Overall Grade: B-)
Best Move: That testicular fortitude that Phoenix showed in breaking up a 62-win team to make it more Playoff-ready was impressive. As a result, the Suns are more balanced, deeper and better equipped to handle adversity when the shots ain't falling.
Worst Move: The unnecessary signing of Raja Bell to a baffling five-year contract may have been the last straw for Joe Johnson's fragile psyche that felt unappreciated by Phoenix's front office. Maybe it was coincidental that the Suns collapsed when he got injured in the Playoffs, but shouldn't Shawn Marion, and not Johnson, have been made to feel like the odd man out after the series with the Spurs?

Drafted (Grade: D-)
2. 54) Dijon Thompson, SG, UCLA (via trade w/New York)
Signed (Grade: C+)
Bell, SG, Utah
Brian Grant, PF/C, L.A. Lakers
Scott Padgett, SF/PF, Houston
Pat Burke, C, Spain

Acquired (Grade: A-)
Kurt Thomas, PF/C, New York
Boris Diaw, PG/SF, Atlanta
James Jones, SF, Indiana

Lost
Johnson, SG, Atlanta
Quentin Richardson, SG/SF, New York
Steven Hunter, C, Philadelphia
Jake Voskuhl, C, Charlotte

New Rotation:
SF: Marion
PF: Amare Stoudemire
C: Thomas
SG: Jim Jackson
PG: Steve Nash
6th Man: Bell

PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS (Overall Grade: B  )

Best Move: Juan Dixon never lived up to his First-Round billing and never developed into a true point guard with Washington, but make no mistake: he can play. Few were more productive in the spot-start capacity as Dixon and his impact in the postseason demonstrated his standing as one of the elite combo guards off the bench.
Worst Move: Coaches, even successful ones, are not valued commodities in the NBA. Nate McMillan won one Playoff series in five years with Seattle -- apparently that's good for $27.5 million of Paul Allen's play money.

Drafted (Grade: B-)
1. (6) Martell Webster, SG/SF, High School
1. (22) Jarrett Jack, PG, Georgia Tech (via trade)

Signed (Grade: B  )
Dixon, PG/SG, Washington
Charles Smith, SG, Italy
Sergei Monia, SG, (2004 No. 1 Pick)

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Damon Stoudamire, PG, Memphis
Nick Van Exel, PG, San Antonio
Derek Anderson, SG, Houston
Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF, Sacramento

New Rotation:
SF: Darius Miles
PF: Zach Randolph
C: Joel Przybilla
SG: Martell Webster
PG: Sebastian Telfair
6th Man: Dixon

SACRAMENTO KINGS (Overall Grade: B-)
Best Move: The Kings moved quick to pluck Shareef Abdur-Rahim from the wreckage of a failed deal with New Jersey. The sweet-shooting Abdur-Rahim should thrive with all the open looks he'll get in Sacramento.
Worst Move: Sacramento will have its hands full evangelizing Bonzi Wells to their selfless, jump-shooting offense. To make matters worse, the Kings traded their heart and soul, Bobby Jackson, to get him.

Drafted (Grade: A)
1. (23) Francisco Garcia, SG, Louisville

Signed (Grade: C)
Jamal Sampson, C, Charlotte
Ronnie Price, PG (Undrafted rookie)

Acquired (Grade: B-)
Abdur-Rahim, PF, Portland
Wells, SG/SF, Memphis
Jason Hart, PG, Charlotte

Lost
Jackson, PG/SG, Memphis
Cuttino Mobley, SG, L.A. Clippers
Greg Ostertag, C, Utah

New Rotation:
SF: Peja Stojakovic
PF: Abdur-Rahim
C: Brad Miller
SG: Wells
PG: Mike Bibby
6th Man: Kenny Thomas

SAN ANTONIO SPURS (Overall Grade: B-)

Best Move: The Spurs' lack of initiative and hustle on the glass was exposed by the Pistons in the Finals. While Fabricio Oberto isn't the dynamic offensive player Luis Scola is, his maturity and work ethic are a better fit at this point in serving San Antonio's needs.
Worst Move: Have the Spurs seen Michael Finley play lately? His game is more reminiscent of Allan Houston than the slashing Finely of old, and certainly not worth jerking Manu Ginobili in and out of the lineup again.

Drafted (Grade: C)
1. (28) Mahinmi, PF, France

Signed (Grade: B  )
Finley, SG, Dallas
Nick Van Exel, PG, Portland
Robert Horry, SF/PF (Re-signed)
Oberto, PF/C, Argentina

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Linton Johnson, SG/SF, New Jersey

New Rotation:
SF: Bruce Bowen
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Nazr Mohammed
SG: Ginobili
PG: Tony Parker
6th Man: Finley

SEATTLE SONICS (Overall Grade: B  )
Best Move: Sure, the Sonics caved and paid Ray Allen superstar money. But the team held firm and bit their lip for the long-term health of their franchise by letting Antonio Daniels, Jerome James, and even head coach Nate McMillan walk away for exorbitant money in other locales.
Worst Move: Seattle has begun to embrace the Moneyball philosophy of evaluating players based on pure statistics. This is a good thing, but the signings of Rick Brunson, Mikki Moore and the re-signing of Damien Wilkins speak to a possible overvaluing of guys who produce big in limited minutes, thinking they'll maintain those averages in expanded minutes.

Drafted (Grade: B  )
1. (25) Petro, C, France
2. (48) Mickael Gelabele, SF, France
Signed (Grade: B+)
Allen, SG, (Re-signed)
Vitaly Potapenko, C, (Re-signed)
Damien Wilkins, SG (Re-signed)
Rick Brunson, PG, L.A. Clippers
Mikki Moore, C, L.A. Clippers

Acquired (Grade: N/A)
None.

Lost
Daniels, PG, Washington
James, C, New York

New Rotation:
SF: Rashard Lewis
PF: Reggie Evans (Not yet signed)
C: Potapenko
SG: Allen
PG: Luke Ridnour
6th Man: Vladimir Radmanovic (Not yet signed)

UTAH JAZZ (Overall Grade: B  )
Best Move: Fate handed the Jazz the fifth pick in the Draft. Utah, unlike so many other teams, didn't take the position it was handed and instead traded up to get the guy it HAD to have in Deron Williams.
Worst Move: Unless the team finds a legitimate outside shooter in the backcourt real soon -- Latrell Sprewell (no) and Kerry Kittles (maybe) are the best left from a dwindling lot -- opposing defense will be given free reign to clog the area inside the arc.

Drafted (Grade: B+)
1. (3) Williams, PG, Illinois
2. (34) C.J. Miles, SG, High School
2. (51) Robert Whaley, PF, Walsh

Signed (Grade: C)
Milt Palacio, PG, Toronto

Acquired (Grade: C)
Greg Ostertag, C, Sacramento

Lost
Raja Bell, SG, Phoenix
Curtis Borchardt, C, Boston
Raul Lopez, PG, Memphis
Kirk Snyder, SG, New Orleans

New Rotation:
SF: Andrei Kirilenko
PF: Carlos Boozer
C: Mehmet Okur
SG: Gordan Giricek
PG: Williams
6th Man: Matt Harpring
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 10:42:40 AM by ziggy »
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Reality

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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 09:51:12 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing what Raja Bell can do in the Suns lineup.

Offline ziggy

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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2005, 01:09:34 AM »
He had the Grizzlies rated as the best.  My opinions
Losing Jason Williams good, but losing Earl Watson wasn't.  They added a couple of small PG, neither of which is a very good defensively.  I don't see that they improved greatly.  At best it is a push.
At the SF/SG they went from a rotation of 4 to 3, by keeping Mike Miller, and Shane Battier, and adding Eddie Jones, and losing Bonzi and Posey.  This was an excellent move
Losing Stromile Swift was a mistake.
They had the 19th selection in the draft, which does not yield many high quality players.  Warrick is going to have to take minutes away from 3 veterans (Battier, Miller, and Jones) to make an impact.  Not gonna happen.

I don't believe that they greatly improved themselves, shouldn't yield many more wins.


Seattle was rated 3rd.  I am sorry, but this is a joke.  Seattle lost their head coach, and their #1 assistant.  They have Bob Weiss as they head coach.  He had no success as a head coach before and has been an assisitant for what 25 years.  This is a major major downgrade.
They signed Ray Allen to a HUGE deal.  He is a great player, but he will be averaging close to $20 million, of a less than $50 million cap.  Thye didn't have a choice, but this is not a GREAT signing.
They lost Antonio Daniels, which is bad, lost Jerome James which is good, and signed 3 FA that really don't mean anything.
They drafted a European center.  Lets be honest there has really only been 3 good European centers (Sabonis, Vlade, and Illguaskis), and an untold number of worthless Euro centers.  This was a marginal pick at best.

Utah was rated #4.  The only addition that could possibly have an impact is Deron Williams.  That is a good, but not great pick.  I predict he will be another Andre Miller.  That isn't bad, but it for sure isn't great.
Otherwise they added Greg Ostertag, and Milt Palacio  :puke: .  All I can say is whoop dee doo.

They lost Kirk Snyder, Curtis Borchardt, Raul Lopez and Raja Bell.

Utah will be better if they get everybody healthy, not because of this underwheleming series of moves.


The Lakers are rated last in the West.   Until he shows otherwise, meaning one of his team totally tanks, adding Phil Jackson alone is a an absolute A+.  Maybe this will be the year when his team really bombs, but with 9 rings, and probably the greatest winning % of any coach I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the rest of the Lakers moves, well at best a D.  I have said my piece regarding Bynum, and trading Butler and Atkins away was a mistake.  The FA they signed Aaron McKie, Luke Walton, Smush Parker really amount to a hill of beans to a team that 20th worst record in the league last year.  Taking a risk on Kwame Brown though makes more sense than taking a risk on Bynum, they just gave up way to much to take that risk.

I would rate them ahead of Dallas though.  Dallas had no draft pick and lost Micheal Finley, and all they added was Christie, DeSagana Diop, Darrell Armstrong, Josh Powell, Rawle Marshall.  That is really pretty sad.  The Lakers at least hired the best coach in history.  That alone means they can't be dead last in the West.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline ziggy

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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2005, 01:27:22 AM »
As far as my Blazers, I think a B is fair.

They have improved their defense immensely.  They got rid of their 3 worst defenders (NVE, Damon, SAR), as well as a marginal defender in DA.  They added Juan Dixon, who I believe will be no worse and probably better than DA defensively, and a better shooter, and very good defender in Jarret Jack, and signed 2 of the better defenders in Europe (Ok that isn't saying much, but it is something) in Charles Smith and Sergei Monia.

I believe that adding Nate McMillan was tremendous.  His signing is a clear sign of someone wanting to come to Portland, which this franchise needs.  This is a tremendous step forward, just tremendous.  I believe he will be a better all around coach than Mo, but I won't say anything bad about Mo.

The draft was a good one in my opinion.  I believe Martell Webster will be a very good NBA player, but as a HS player he is clearly a few years away.  The guy can shoot, is very smart, very strong, and is much more fundementally sound than Gerald Green the next best HS player.  I also believe that Jarret Jack will have a very solid NBA career, and we got him in trade for the #27 and #35 pick.  that was a steal.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 01:28:28 AM by ziggy »
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2005, 09:31:07 AM »
There is no way that Sasha is going to be the starting point guard for the Lakers next year.  Not sure how the sports writer pulled that out of his rear end.  1) He had trouble in Rudy's offense and REALLY had trouble  in the triangle the 2nd half of the season and 2) hes smaller than the PGs Phil likes to play, heck Damon Stoudamire could post him up with ease he weighs like 115 pounds 3) He has no defensive skills whatsoever.

I agree with the assestment.  The Lakers had a below average off-season with the only highlight being Phil Jackson comming back and having Mckie's defense in the lineup next year.

Bynum...dunno if that can get quite a grade yet but from a drafting stand point it was a big big gamble IMO.

Brown for Butler/baggage.....stupid move IMO.  F-
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 09:32:15 AM by westkoast »
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Offline Joe Vancil

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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2005, 09:58:33 AM »
ziggy,

I really like Jarret Jack (hey, Skander - you were right and I was wrong as to where this guy ended up) and Sergei Monia, and I really wanted Utah to pick up Dixon and play him as an undersized 2.  But I think I'd rather have had Gerald Green than Martell Webster.

As for picking up McMillan - there's a good chance that this is the best coaching pick-up of the off-season.  I've always been high on McMillan, and giving him Jack and Dixon for the backcourt is giving him two players he can use immediately.  These two guys are a perfect fit for McMillan, as is Monia.

But the real question for the Blazers is Zack Randolph.  There's a good chance that this guy just tunes McMillan out, and if that's the case, he has to go.  But who is going to give you legitimate talent for Randolph?  And you really need to get back a player who can serve as a foundation, and most people aren't willing to deal those.  Think it's possible to rob the Clippers in a Brand-for-Randolph deal?

As for the Jazz, I think they really screwed the pooch (no offense intended) this off-season.  They lost Snyder (who I liked), Lopez (who I liked), and Borchardt (who I liked), and got Ostertag (who I still like) for them.  They lost Bell for nothing.  They're getting Devin Brown (who I'm not high on for Sloan's system) and Milt Palacio (<yawn>).  The guys they needed were Cuttino Mobley, Antonio Daniels, Juan Dixon, and in a pinch, Earl Watson.  Obviously, a Michael Finley would have been a great pick-up and a great fit, but the Jazz really weren't in that race.  The one thing that Utah did right was get Deron Williams.  That means they've got their entire off-season riding on that single pick-up, in my opinion.

All that Utah is really hoping for is being healthier than last season, in my opinion.  And with the improvements in other teams (like Golden State), I don't see that as being enough to really assure themselves of a playoff spot.  However, a healthy Boozer and Kirilenko, plus a Mehmet Okur who has paid his Sloan-induced penalty for showing up out-of-shape last season, could be surprising.  But there's an awful lot riding on Williams and Giricek/Brown - a bit too much, if you ask me.

 
Joe

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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2005, 10:36:08 AM »
Quote
Think it's possible to rob the Clippers in a Brand-for-Randolph deal?

Picking up Osterslug and losing Raja were bad moves IMO Joe.   Raja is a very underrated defender.  With a league stacked with 2guards who can score at will wouldnt you want to keep someone who can at least make em work harder?

I cant believe you like Osterslug!!!  Besides, how is he even still in this league?
No way in hell.  Brand is very loved out here in LA and pretty much the main reason why the Clippers are competitive night in and night out (as Magette is very streaky thruout the season).

HOWEVER!!!  I wouldnt put it pass that moron that owns the team.   Brand is 2x the player Zach is.  Cant say enough about him.
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2005, 10:36:19 AM »
Quote
Think it's possible to rob the Clippers in a Brand-for-Randolph deal?

Picking up Osterslug and losing Raja were bad moves IMO Joe.   Raja is a very underrated defender.  With a league stacked with 2guards who can score at will wouldnt you want to keep someone who can at least make em work harder?

I cant believe you like Osterslug!!!  Besides, how is he even still in this league?
No way in hell.  Brand is very loved out here in LA and pretty much the main reason why the Clippers are competitive night in and night out (as Magette is very streaky thruout the season).

HOWEVER!!!  I wouldnt put it pass that moron that owns the team.   Brand is 2x the player Zach is.  Cant say enough about him.
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2005, 10:37:11 AM »
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Think it's possible to rob the Clippers in a Brand-for-Randolph deal?

 
No way in hell.  Brand is very loved out here in LA and pretty much the main reason why the Clippers are competitive night in and night out (as Magette is very streaky thruout the season).   HOWEVER!!!  I wouldnt put it pass that moron that owns the team.   Brand is 2x the player Zach is.  Cant say enough about him.

Picking up Osterslug and losing Raja were bad moves IMO Joe.   Raja is a very underrated defender.  With a league stacked with 2guards who can score at will wouldnt you want to keep someone who can at least make em work harder?  On top of that he can score.  Ive seen him get hot a number of times since hes been in the league and really light the net up.

I cant believe you like Osterslug!!!  Besides, how is he even still in this league?
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Offline Joe Vancil

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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2005, 10:59:29 AM »
westkoast,

Bell isn't a good fit for Utah, and that's part of the reason our offense struggled last year.  Granted, Bell was a big part of our offense once our big guys went down.  But Bell is a 2/3 combo player, whereas Utah needs a 1/2 combo player at the 2.  If you don't have strong ball-handling and passing skills, you can't play the 2-guard in Utah.  So, while I like Bell, he's a misfitting piece.  However, we shouldn't have lost him for NOTHING in return.  I could understand losing Bell in getting someone who'd help our team, but for nothing?  I agree - it was a bad move.

Snyder is the loss I think that hurts the most.  I liked this kid's defense, and he seemed to be good enough with his ball-handling and passing to fill Utah's need at the 2 eventually.  Plus, he filled the role of Sloan-whipping boy quite nicely.  Sloan needs one player who he's never happy with, but still produces.  I think Snyder was that kind of guy.

As for Ostertag, you have to understand that Ostertag is a limited player.  You're not going to get double-digit points out of Ostertag.  You're not going to get incredibly heavy minutes out of Ostertag - if not from his conditioning, then from the fact that you only get 6 fouls.  Ostertag isn't going to catch no-look passes, or grab offensive rebounds cleanly;  Venus de Milo has better hands (and is nearly as mobile).

But Ostertag isn't a bad rebounder, and he's a very good defender and shot-blocker.  He'll put a body on anyone - including Shaq - and he'll stand tall and try to tower over even bigger players.  He DOES do an effective job defensively on big centers - and there aren't too many big guys who do.  He *WILL* slow down a Shaquille O'Neal.

While I like Ostertag, I can't get over what we had to give up to get him.  We gave up *WAY* too much for Ostertag.

 
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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2005, 11:06:32 AM »
B- for the Spurs?  are you kidding, we just had our BEST offseason in recent history, hell maybe even in TEAM history, Spurs deserve an A+ as far as I am concerned.  I can't way to start the season win another trophe.  As it is, we may not be done yet, word is they are tryign to trade Brent away - maybe with Rasho - hope the pick up helps our squad out.
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 01:01:06 PM »
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B- for the Spurs?  are you kidding, we just had our BEST offseason in recent history, hell maybe even in TEAM history, Spurs deserve an A+ as far as I am concerned.  I can't way to start the season win another trophe.  As it is, we may not be done yet, word is they are tryign to trade Brent away - maybe with Rasho - hope the pick up helps our squad out.
Wrong.  The best off-season you guys had is the year you drafted that unknown player Tim Duggin!

Seriously though, you guys did grab some good guys to go along with an already impressive lineup.

Joe...I dont know if he will slow Shaq down as much as he will just be a huge blob-like road block to the basket.  Last time I seen em in person, at a Laker/Jazz game 2 years ago, he was painfully slow.  The reason why I think its a bad pickup is because I believe his age has made him even slower.  We will see though.  Watch the guy make me eat crow by getting in the top 15 in rebounds/blocked shots.
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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2005, 01:33:47 PM »
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B- for the Spurs?  are you kidding, we just had our BEST offseason in recent history, hell maybe even in TEAM history, Spurs deserve an A+ as far as I am concerned.  I can't way to start the season win another trophe.  As it is, we may not be done yet, word is they are tryign to trade Brent away - maybe with Rasho - hope the pick up helps our squad out.
Wrong.  The best off-season you guys had is the year you drafted that unknown player Tim Duggin!

Seriously though, you guys did grab some good guys to go along with an already impressive lineup.

Joe...I dont know if he will slow Shaq down as much as he will just be a huge blob-like road block to the basket.  Last time I seen em in person, at a Laker/Jazz game 2 years ago, he was painfully slow.  The reason why I think its a bad pickup is because I believe his age has made him even slower.  We will see though.  Watch the guy make me eat crow by getting in the top 15 in rebounds/blocked shots.
very true about TD...


I was thinking more alongs the lines of our offseason FA hunting..by far this is the best.
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Offline Skandery

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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2005, 02:54:06 PM »
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He *WILL* slow down a Shaquille O'Neal.

Yeah right.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Ostertag

Offensively:  Has no hands, has no presence, no offensive awareness, mildly interested in setting picks, can't shoot free throws, doesn't pound the offensive glass, his passing is forgettable, and when Sloan tried to get cute and ran the offense through Ostertag's high post, both YOU and ME watched Hubie's Grizzlies beat the Jazz like red-headed step-children.  Ostertag is an utter waste of oxygen on that end of the floor.

Defensively:  Has no defensive awareness, just below mediocre as a help defender, doesn't draw charges, doesn't box out, doesn't defend the low block with intensity, is UNWILLING to challenge perimeter big men.  The ONLY thing that keeps Ostertag from being an utter waste of oxygen on the defense is his 7'2 wide frame can be relied on to get an occasional rebound or an occasional block when the spirit moves him.

Work Ethic:  Has no passion for the game, no drive to succeed OR improve, and appears to be thick-skulled as he seems lost in the most mundane offensive and defensive schemes.

All that and he is now one full year older...          
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2005, 05:33:09 PM »
Quote
Quote
He *WILL* slow down a Shaquille O'Neal.

Yeah right.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Ostertag

Offensively:  Has no hands, has no presence, no offensive awareness, mildly interested in setting picks, can't shoot free throws, doesn't pound the offensive glass, his passing is forgettable, and when Sloan tried to get cute and ran the offense through Ostertag's high post, both YOU and ME watched Hubie's Grizzlies beat the Jazz like red-headed step-children.  Ostertag is an utter waste of oxygen on that end of the floor.

Defensively:  Has no defensive awareness, just below mediocre as a help defender, doesn't draw charges, doesn't box out, doesn't defend the low block with intensity, is UNWILLING to challenge perimeter big men.  The ONLY thing that keeps Ostertag from being an utter waste of oxygen on the defense is his 7'2 wide frame can be relied on to get an occasional rebound or an occasional block when the spirit moves him.

Work Ethic:  Has no passion for the game, no drive to succeed OR improve, and appears to be thick-skulled as he seems lost in the most mundane offensive and defensive schemes.

All that and he is now one full year older...
The thing is (and I hate to say this cuz its Osterslug) that a big body in the middle is a big body in the middle.  There are so many undersized centers and PF playing the 5 these days a large blob to gum up the middle may be effective....

It just so hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt!!!!

Honestly, when I saw him at Staples 2 years back he was VERY slow.  There was a number of times the Lakers were able to get into the paint with ease because he was lagging so far behind.  Lakers ended up winning the game and Shaq wasnt even playing that night.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 05:37:23 PM by westkoast »
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