Author Topic: New Orleans refugeees  (Read 15636 times)

Offline SPURSX3

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New Orleans refugeees
« on: September 02, 2005, 12:13:32 PM »
I see the military finally arrived in force today with food and power to regain some order hopefully.  I dont blame the mayor being so upset with the feds - WHY COULDNT WE GET MORE TROOP, NATIONAL GAURD THERE IN ONE DAY RATHER THAN FOUR!!  For pete's sake this is New Orleans, not some foriegn soil, we should have reacted sooner.  as it is the suprdome is on the verge of a riot, the astrodome is full, san antonio has taken in about 75 thousand refugees or so - we are even offering them JOBS while they are here is they want to work.  we will probably take on more before the weekend is over.  Feel horrible for these people seeing the photo's - it makes you wonder how fellow americans could be in such a situation - ON OUR OWN SOIL.  I am especially upset with FEMA and the fact that they didn't expect looting and lawlessness....HELLO, New Orleans is full is racial tension and a good poor people, the good ole boy system is in full effect there, somebody didnt expect some of them to loot and grab what they could??  dumb.
Hopefully the military can help get some order in place today, there has got to be more open space to put people than just the superdome, empty super markets, empty office space etc.  they are way too cramped in the dome there and the heat must be unbearable.  these people need more help than what they are getting.  I got really upset this morning hearing callers to one of our radio talk shows say that the refugees get what they deserve because they didnt leave when warned.  can you believe that?!   Like this freak storm is thier fault, like everyone has the means to get up and go, like everyone HAS SOMEWHERE to go.  can't believe there are people like that.  at this point, the people of new orleans ned our compassion and help. that caller just made me sick.

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National Guardsmen With Relief Supplies Pour Into New Orleans
Lawlessness, Chaos In Big Easy: Angry Mayor Rips Feds

UPDATED: 11:52 am CDT September 2, 2005

Four days after Hurricane Katrina struck, the National Guard arrived in force Friday with food, water and weapons, rolling through the floodwaters in a vast truck convoy with orders to retake the streets and bring relief to the suffering.

"The cavalry is and will continue to arrive," said one general.

A convoy of amphibious vehicles carrying the relief supplies is making its through the flooded streets of downtown New Orleans.

Mayor Angry

The once-glorious city of New Orleans is in ruins and its people in chaos from Hurricane Katrina.

For those who sought refuge in the New Orleans convention center, it became just another part of the nightmare. There are reports of rapes, beatings and fights in the convention center, where at least 15,000 people have sought safety.

Police Chief Eddie Compass said hotels have sent away their tourists and the displaced people are "walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

But when he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, they were driven back by a mob. He said, "They were beaten back within 30 feet of the entrance."

The mayor of New Orleans is seething over what he sees as the government's slow response to his city's disaster.

Ray Nagin went on WWL Radio Thursday night to say the feds "don't have a clue what's going on." He added, "Excuse my French -- everybody in America -- but I am pissed."

Nagin said that there are many drug addicts who are searching for a fix. He said that's why they are breaking into drug stores and hospitals.

"What you are seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts that are wreaking havoc and we don't have the manpower that we can deal with it," Nagin said.

Nagin is angry, and wants people to flood the offices of the president and the governor with letters calling for help. He thinks not enough is being done to help the evacuees. He said that federal officials "don't have a clue what's going on."

"Get off your a---s and let's do something and let's fix the biggest g-----n crisis in the history of this country," Nagin said. "People are dying. They don't have homes, they don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same. And it's time."

The mayor said he needs troops and hundreds of buses to get evacuees out.

He said that it was laughable that some officials had mentioned possibly having school bus drivers brought to New Orleans to help with the evacuation.

"I'm like, 'You have got to be kidding me.' This is a national disaster, get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses to New Orleans," he said. "This is a major, major, major deal."

Nagin accused state and federal officials of "playing games" and "spinning for the cameras." He said he keeps hearing that help is coming, but "there's no beef."

He called for a moratorium on press conferences. He said he doesn't want any more press conferences there until there is actual manpower on the ground helping his city. He said that he is tired of hearing that thousands of troops are on their way because they are just not there.

A little after 10 a.m. EDT Friday, President George W. Bush arrived in Mobile, Ala., to tour the area. In front of cameras, he received a briefing on the situation from the governors of Mississippi and Alabama and other emergecny officials.

He described the scale of the disaster.

"It's as if the entire Gulf Coast was obliterated by the worst kind of weapon you can imagine," he said.

Thursday, Nagin issued a "desperate SOS" on behalf of the thousands who are stranded at the convention center. He also gave the go-ahead for them to march across a bridge to a dry area of the city and look for whatever relief they could find.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center. People desperately called for help, chasing after reporters, sometimes pleading and sometimes threatening.

Congress is rushing through an aid package of more than $10 billion and the Pentagon is promising 1,400 National Guardsmen.

Evacuee: It’s Genocide
One evacuee said the victims have been left "like pure animals" with no care.

The New Orleans police chief said 15,000 people are trapped in the city's convention center. And he said some are being raped and beaten.

Alan Gould, a man who is an evacuee inside the convention center, told CNN that women and small children are being raped and killed. He called it genocide.

He said officials keep giving them the runaround, saying "Help is coming. Help is coming. Help is coming." But he said people just keep dying.

A 68-year-old minister who's stranded with thousands of other evacuees at the New Orleans Convention Center said, "We are out here living like pure animals."

The Rev. Isaac Clark said, "We don't have water. We don't have food. We don't have help."

A 23-year-old woman tending to her 4-year-old daughter said, "God is punishing New Orleans" for its corruption and crime.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center. People desperately called for help, chasing after reporters, sometimes pleading and sometimes threatening.

Louisiana's governor is declaring war on looters and others who've turned the streets of New Orleans into scenes of chaos and fear.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco said 300 National Guard troops have arrived in the city fresh from duty in Iraq. She said they "know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."

The Guard troops are carrying M-16s, which Blanco describes as "locked and loaded."

Within the angry crowds of people trying to flee the city, shooters have targeted police officers, a security person at the Superdome and possibly a military helicopter evacuating hospital patients.

A Louisiana state police commander said many New Orleans officers have quit, saying they weren't going to risk their lives to fight looters.

Meanwhile, evacuees chanted "We want help!" Thursday outside the New Orleans convention center. Many have been there for days, without food, water or sanitary services. At least seven corpses are there as well.

Those at the convention center are increasingly hungry, desperate and tired of waiting for buses to return them to the fresh air of civilization.

As the mayor asked for buses, he also made an apparent effort to defuse what could be an explosive situation. The mayor said people will be allowed to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank, for whatever relief they can find.

At the hot and stinking Superdome, there's a snarl in the effort to evacuate storm evacuees to Houston. More people keep arriving, swelling the number from 20,000 to 30,000. A National Guard captain said people are coming from around the city, hoping to get a ride out of town.

Lines to board buses to Texas stretch for nearly half a mile. Fights are breaking out, and one military policeman was shot in the leg in a scuffle for his rifle.

A New Orleans official is calling the situation a "national disgrace."

Fights and fires have erupted and corpses are openly scattered throughout the city. Rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers have been targeted by gunfire.
National Guard Moves Into Louisiana

The National Guard wants hurricane-ravaged New Orleans to know the cavalry is coming.

Lt. Gen. Steven Blum of the National Guard said 7,000 National Guardsmen are arriving in Louisiana Friday "to save Louisiana citizens."

He said the only thing they'll be attacking is "the effects of the hurricane," but adds they are prepared to "put down" the violence "in a quick and efficient manner."

Blum said a huge airlift of supplies is due Friday, signaling "the cavalry is and will continue to arrive."

The National Guard's assurances come amid stinging criticism from the mayor and others who say the federal government has bungled the relief effort. People haven't had food, water, medicine or power since the storm struck Monday.
Bush: Results Are Not Acceptable

President George W. Bush is admitting efforts to help Hurricane Katrina's victims have fallen short.

Leaving the White House to tour the stricken Gulf Coast, he declared, "The results are not acceptable."

However, Bush is vowing to "get on top of this situation" and to "help people who need help."

Bush is flying to Mobile, Alabama, for a briefing from emergency chiefs, then getting a helicopter tour of flattened coastal communities. He plans to walk through one of the hardest-hit: Biloxi, Mississippi.

But in New Orleans, which has been hit by looting and is mostly under water, Bush will just fly over and land at the airport several miles from the city center.

On departing the White House, Bush said he wants to thank rescue workers for their efforts -- and assure Katrina's victims that the administration "will deploy the assets necessary."

Explosions In New Orleans

A series of explosions has rocked the riverfront a few miles south of the French Quarter in New Orleans.

The explosions appeared to come from an area on the east bank of the Mississippi River, near a residential area and railroad tracks. At least two police boats were at the scene.

The first explosion sent flames shooting into the pre-dawn sky. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.

All this has happened amid continuing lawlessness in the city swamped by Hurricane Katrina. The governor has ordered in hundreds of battle-hardened troops just back from Iraq.

Astrodome Declared Full; Evacuees Sent To Other Shelters
After accepting more than 11,000 Hurricane Katrina evacuees, officials say the Houston Astrodome is full. So, they've begun sending buses to other shelters in the Houston area.

The total of 11,000 inside the Astrodome is less than half the estimated 23,000 people who were expected to arrive by bus from New Orleans.

Buses that continue to arrive are being sent on to other shelters in the area and as far away as Huntsville, about an hour north of Houston.

The U.S. Postal Service said that it is making arrangements to get mail to evacuees, even at temporary shelters. The agency urged evacuees to file change of address forms. (Click here for full story.)

Meanwhile, by unanimous consent of those present, the Senate has approved $10.5 billion in aid for the hurricane victims.

The House will meet Friday at noon to speed the measure to President George W. Bush's desk.

A skeleton crew of Senate leaders was all that was needed to speed the measure through by voice vote Thursday night.

Although the Astrodome is full, the state of Texas is rolling out an even bigger welcome mat for evacuees. Officials are agreeing to take another 25,000 displaced residents, bringing the grand total to 73,000.

The cities of Dallas, Houston and San Antonio will become new homes for storm evacuees, many from hard-hit New Orleans.

Already, the Astrodome in Houston and Dallas' Reunion Arena have been converted into giant shelters. Now, a warehouse in San Antonio and its Joe Freeman Arena will also be used to house people.

San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger hopes for a system in which evacuees can get their needs resolved in one central place. He says he hopes to restore "some dignity which these circumstances have taken away from" storm evacuees.

The American Red Cross is also running shelters in other Texas cities.
More Space Being Found For Refugees

A Houston sports complex is now home to about 18,000 hurricane refugees from Louisiana.

About 15,000 of the storm evacuees are in the Houston Astrodome. An additional 3,000 are in a nearby horse arena. Houston Mayor Bill White said the nearby Reliant Center and the George R. Brown Convention Center are being prepared to house additional refugees.

Conventions and other events booked into those facilities are going to be displaced.

Officials are urging residents throughout the region to help locate garage apartments and other housing that could be temporarily made available to displaced families.

Arrangements are also being made to post highway signs directing those displaced by the storm to cities where other temporary shelters have been opened.

Doctors Appeal For Help

Doctors at two public hospitals in New Orleans have called The Associated Press to plead for rescue. The physicians say they are nearly out of food and power and have been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.

Dr. Norman McSwain said he and his colleagues at Charity Hospital have turned to The AP as a last resort. McSwain said he tried calling the mayor and the governor, using any "inside pressure" possible, to no avail.

McSwain said there is minimal water. The food amounts to fruit bowl punch. The scene is similar at University hospital.

Another doctor, Lee Hamm, said somehow the two public facilities have been forgotten -- or ignored.

Mississippi Death Toll Hits 126

Mississippi's death toll from Hurricane Katrina has reached 126 as more rescue teams spread out to search for the living.

All along the 90-mile coast, emergency workers are performing the grisly task of retrieving bodies.

Some of the dead are lying on streets and in the ruins of obliterated homes that stretch back blocks from the beach.

Tons of rotting shrimp and chickens blown from containers at a shipping dock were dumped into the water and onto the tattered landscape.

As many as 882,000 homes or businesses are still without electricity. Some won't have power for weeks -- or longer, state emergency officials said.

Even in northern Mississippi, locals and stranded evacuees wait for hours to buy gasoline at upward of $3 a gallon.

There were complaints that a few stations were selling gas for up to $6 a gallon.

Tiny Hamlets Do Nothing But Wait For Help

Some of the places that are worst off after Hurricane Katrina are tiny places with names such as Bond, Thomasville, Maxie and Star.

They're Mississippi hamlets miles inland from the Gulf of Mexico. The few people who live amid the pines in the small houses and single-wide trailers are mostly black and poor. They have no food, water, electricity or gasoline after getting a direct hit from Katrina.

Red Cross trucks and the National Guard and the local power trucks are roaring right by. They're heading for places where there are larger numbers of victims.

A woman in Bond said "people back here are going to starve" if someone doesn't stop soon. In Thomasville, a woman whose family has been cooking meals on a barbecue grill said they're "learning to do without."

Memorable Scenes
A collection of scenes that have amazed, impressed, and horrified us over the past few days:

At least seven dead bodies were scattered among the thousands of storm evacuees who'd been waiting for days outside the New Orleans Convention Center. One man, pointing to a dead woman in a wheelchair, said, "I don't treat my dog like that. I buried my dog." An old man lay dead in a chaise lounge in a grassy median, as hungry babies wailed around him.

The Coast Guard said that when helicopters tried to take people out of New Orleans hospitals, they were shot at by people demanding that the choppers come to rescue their own family members.

In coastal Mississippi, refrigerated mobile morgues cruised around like garbage trucks, picking up bodies left on sidewalks and in front yards. Family members tried to treat the bodies with respect, wrapping them in curtains or sheets they can find in the debris.

For those who sought refuge in the New Orleans convention center, it became just another part of the nightmare. Police Chief Eddie Compass said some of the thousands trapped there are being raped, and others beaten. He says hotels have sent away their tourists and are being "preyed upon." The chief says he sent in officers to quell the situation, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.

The street outside the New Orleans convention center is choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage, and it smells of urine and feces. People chanted, "Help, help!" as reporters and photographers walked through. The crowd got angry when journalists tried to photograph one of the dead bodies, and covered it over with a blanket. A woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm.

A visiting sheriff's detective from Florida says he saw people wave down a squad car near the convention center last night. The car slowed down, and the crowd swarmed -- causing the officer to drive off and return with other officers. He says the officers told the crowd, "Everybody down, or we're going to shoot" -- and the people scattered.

One looter sobbed as she took items from a store's shelves and put them into plastic garbage bags to take to her shelter. She was taking children's clothing and snack foods, but couldn't find any water. Another woman on a bicycle rode up to a drug store and asked if people were being arrested. When told that they weren't, she said she was a diabetic and that she needed test strips.

A tourist trapped in a New Orleans hotel says "No one really knows what to do." Susan Dewey says "The people who are left are just going and breaking into stores." She says you see people dragging bags of shoes, then later, "you would see piles of shoe boxes." Dewey thought she'd found a way out when she banded with hundreds of other tourists to hire ten buses for $25,000. But, after waiting hours, they learned government officials had commandeered the buses to evacuate others.

There are also acts of kindness. One woman was seen using a broken-up soda carton to fan a woman in a wheelchair, trying to keep her cool. In an apparent bid to lift her spirits, she kept asking the woman if she wanted ice cream, or a cola. Someone commandeered a golf cart from the convention center and drove off, carrying the woman in a wheelchair.

For the evacuees arriving at the Houston Astrodome from New Orleans, a shower in one of the stadium's four locker rooms was a welcome relief. But for Audree Lee, it was a relief as well to hear the voice of her teen-age daughter for the first time since the storm. She says she and her daughter both cried, and that the girl asked about her dog. She says, "They wouldn't let me take her dog with me...I know the dog is gone now."

Reporters and politicians in the area devastated by the hurricane are being begged by survivors to pass information to their families. Louisiana's Lieutenant Governor Mitch Landrieu had a pocket full of scraps of paper on which he scribbled down phone numbers. This morning, he contacted a woman whose father had been rescued, and told her, "Your daddy's alive, and he said to tell you he loves you." He says the woman started crying and said, "I thought he was dead."

Major Developments

The relative calm of night was disrupted early Friday with a series of massive explosions on the riverfront a few miles south of the French Quarter.
Congress rushed a $10.5 billion recovery bill to President Bush, who called the relief effort the biggest in U.S. history.
Texas agreed to triple to 75,000 the number of evacuees being taken in from Louisiana. Houston officials temporarily stopped admitting people to the Astrodome late Thursday after accepting 11,325. Others will be housed in the adjacent Reliant Center, where the Houston Texans play football.
Thousands of college students have been displaced, some enrolling at other schools. (Click here for full story.)
President Bush planned a tour of Gulf Coast communities battered by Hurricane Katrina, a visit aimed at alleviating criticism that he engineered a too-little, too-late response.
Asia-Pacific nations - including tsunami-battered Sri Lanka - promised Friday to send money and disaster relief experts to the United States to help deal with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
Lawmakers demanded an investigation into gasoline prices after thousands of motorists called a government hotline to complain of price gouging. The Energy Department reports more than 5,000 calls, though there was no way to immediately determine how many of the allegations were valid.
Crude oil prices eased slightly Friday and gasoline futures fell for the first time in a week as several energy facilities on the Gulf Coast resumed operations. Crude oil contracts from November thru February - traditionally high demand months - were all trading above $70 a barrel.
The military expects to put 30,000 National Guard troops on duty in the Gulf states as demands grow for more security and relief assistance, officials said.  
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rickortreat

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New Orleans refugeees
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 05:54:04 PM »
Pretty pathetic response from the government to probably the biggest disaster in the country.  But where was the planning for the City?  The mayor of NO and the Governor know that there are lots of poor people in NO without the wherwithal to get out of town on their own.

Why was there no outreach program organized for people who couldn't get out of town?  They could have had a phone bank set up and brought in hundreds of buses to get the people out before the storm hit and they didn't do it.

Probably thousands of lives were lost thanks to poor planning by everyone responsible, all the elected officials, and the people at FEMA were incompetant and asleep at the wheel.  This is a city below sealevel in a River Delta.  Are we living in Bangladesh?  Pathetic and embarrassing.

We should think long and hard about rebuilding there.  No building on land below sea level.  Restrict development to areas that are on higher ground,  and fill in the rest of the area with dirt and stone before even thinking about building on that land again.

Also, how much of your monthly paycheck are you willing to part with to rebuild this city?  It's going to cost a fortune and the citizens don't have the money.

There's no excuse for the looting and the violence however,  these people are animals. Women getting raped at a facility, organized by the government...  Pretty disgusting display of behavior.  

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2005, 09:21:37 AM »
Exactly Rick, while I'm a big Busher hater even I had to think about that issue.  The Federal Gov is THIRD in line to help the people of NO.  The City comes first, the state comes second.  Instead of screaming on TV/Radio, how about making some calls yourself to your local resources.

FEMA is a disgrace though.  You have a totally INCOMPETENT Bush appointed head of FEMA.  Very little to no experience in dealing with a disaster of this scale.  They guy last job was supervising judges at horse competition or something.  Total f-up!
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Guest_Randy

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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2005, 09:49:10 AM »
I find it quite interesting that everyone is pointing their finger at the Federal Government -- umm, the Federal Government can't send in troops unless it's requested -- this request should have come BEFORE the hurricane (and asked to be put on standby) rather than after the hurricane.

There is SOOOOO much blame to be spread around that nobody, IMO, should be pointing a finger at anyone other than themselves.

People didn't leave their homes when requested even when transportation was provided for them -- why?  They didn't want to leave (understandably) and frankly they didn't think it would be this bad.  Okay, so they didn't leave -- but this made several situations much worse because now they had to split up the little help they had into the following situations:  helping rescue those in their homes; helping those in the dome and other centers; providing security for those trying to rescue people; and trying to restore order for those who took this as an opportunity to steal (somehow the term looting is being deemed as acceptable to some of these people) and commit crimes (shooting at rescuers, etc.).  But after they have stolen all they can -- then they want to be rescued, cared for and have their homes restored.  I'm not saying everyone who stayed behind stayed for the purpose of looting -- but many of them did.

I would love for ONE person to stand up and take responsibility -- the Mayor, the Governor, people who didn't take opportunities to leave when given the opportunity, the director of FEMA (although I think the guy is getting TOO much of the blame) and the President.  I'd love to see ONE of these people stand up and say "we weren't ready -- we failed."  But the fact is that they think more of their political position than they do of owning up to their part in all this.

Frankly, I don't think there was any possible way to be prepared for this event -- there is just no way to prepare adequately for a disaster of this proportion.  New Orleans will never, IMO, be able to handle a hurricane of this magnitude and it was made worse by being under sea level.  Obviously, I think they SHOULD have been more prepared -- I think the Governor should have requested that the National Guard already be on standby.  I think FEMA should have bused people OUT of the city.  I think they should have brought in ships to move people to (Cruise Ships, etc.) immediately after the event.  These ships are set up to not only house and feed people but give them showers, food, entertainment, etc.  This would have helped people handle the experience better.  I think the governor and mayor should have asked for help from other cities and states for health and protection (police, firemen, etc.).  

But I get to say all of this AFTER it was over and AFTER I saw how devastating this event was.  Frankly, I would like to think I would have thought about some of these things ahead of time -- and I do think I would have thought of some of this -- but it's time to quit placing blame and start working together!



Last, I would like to say MAJOR props to the unsung heroes in all of this:

Hospital workers who worked non-stop trying to provide care for patients when power (and even back-up generators) failed.  A lot of these people worked without rest to try and help their patients (why is it that we fail to see THESE stories on television?).  

Police and Firemen who continued to try and serve the people of their city.  Two policeman committed suicide because they couldn't deal with everything they witnessed.  The fact is that we failed them, IMO, and it's not just one person's fault.  

Props to cities, schools, etc. who have opened their doors to the people who have been displaced.

Props to those who are giving of themselves:  time, materials, skills, etc.  These people have left their homes, jobs, etc. to go down and chop down trees, restore order, restore power, care for the sick, etc.  Major PROPS to these people.

Props to those who are giving financially to help these people out.  I read that half of the damage caused were to those who were uninsured -- that is very tough.  I was amazed how our country responded to the Tsunami -- I hope I'm astounding by how the people in our country responds to this tremendous catastrophe.

Offline Joe Vancil

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2005, 10:47:59 AM »
SpursX3,

I somewhat understand the caller's point of view.  There are people who stayed because they COULDN'T go - doctors, emergency personnel, hospitalized folks - and for those folks, we should be doing everything we can to help them.

But some people stayed because they CHOSE to stay.  The message out there wasn't, "Get out if you can."  It was, "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"  Now I don't know about you, but even if I have nowhere to go...even if I "really can't afford to leave," in that situation, I know what I'm going to do:  I'm going to run for my life.

The fact is that a lot of people ignored the warnings and as a result, have suffered and died needlessly.  And that fact is complicating a disaster situation.

While these folks aren't to blame for the storm, that hardly relieves them from the fact they made a foolish choice.

My parents asked me, "Where are these people going to go, without family, without friends..." and I asked my mom, "Tell me what you think our CHURCH would say and do if someone came, in need of food and shelter, trying to get away from the hurricane.  Wouldn't we welcome them in?"  I know if *I* had nowhere else to go in such a situation, once I got somewhere safe, the local church is the first place I'd turn for help.  And from being in the church I know that some food - not a lot, but at least some - is kept on hand for passers-by in need.  And this is just a little Baptist church in the middle of nowhere, with a congregation of under 30 people.

For the folks still there, we need to help them, and we need to do it quickly, regardless of why they're there - poor past choices or not.  But the skeptic in me still shakes his head at the people who had the choice, but didn't run, because it has made a crisis situation worse.

 
Joe

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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2005, 11:12:07 AM »
there is a lot of finger pointing, and I do put blame on each level of government, there are soo many things to point out, soo many mistakes, however, looking at it now, we have NEVER faced a crisis of this scale in our own country.  I mean it's one thing to send hjelp overseas and help THEM to move their people, but now it's us trying to find food shelter and homes for these people...

I took some stuff to one of the shelters here...it is different seeing these people up close and looking into their eyes, wanted to do more.  we got soo many in our city it's hard to figure out what to do, they dont have transportation, so they walk everywhere, looking at the surounding getting to know what could be their new home, and some looking for work, not even sure about the school situation and all the kids at the shelters, supplies, clothes, food.  

I tell you, I can't stress to you how important it is to give whatever you can to these people, clothes, food, toys, anything - if you dont use it, maybe they can - they have NOTHING.  I am sure that the govt will help them in some way, but come on, you know it is going to be the most basic kind of help for them, they really need help.

our shelters were fairly organized.  still though, one woman died at the shelter that i went to from a heart attack, the stress, the sorrow, the shock...I was shocked at the site of it all...it's all there.  if you can give them anything, please do.  I had the option of taking my stuff directly to them, you guys may want to look up what is the best way to donate in your area.
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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2005, 11:19:53 AM »
Quote
SpursX3,

I somewhat understand the caller's point of view.  There are people who stayed because they COULDN'T go - doctors, emergency personnel, hospitalized folks - and for those folks, we should be doing everything we can to help them.

But some people stayed because they CHOSE to stay.  The message out there wasn't, "Get out if you can."  It was, "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"  Now I don't know about you, but even if I have nowhere to go...even if I "really can't afford to leave," in that situation, I know what I'm going to do:  I'm going to run for my life.

The fact is that a lot of people ignored the warnings and as a result, have suffered and died needlessly.  And that fact is complicating a disaster situation.

While these folks aren't to blame for the storm, that hardly relieves them from the fact they made a foolish choice.

My parents asked me, "Where are these people going to go, without family, without friends..." and I asked my mom, "Tell me what you think our CHURCH would say and do if someone came, in need of food and shelter, trying to get away from the hurricane.  Wouldn't we welcome them in?"  I know if *I* had nowhere else to go in such a situation, once I got somewhere safe, the local church is the first place I'd turn for help.  And from being in the church I know that some food - not a lot, but at least some - is kept on hand for passers-by in need.  And this is just a little Baptist church in the middle of nowhere, with a congregation of under 30 people.

For the folks still there, we need to help them, and we need to do it quickly, regardless of why they're there - poor past choices or not.  But the skeptic in me still shakes his head at the people who had the choice, but didn't run, because it has made a crisis situation worse.
Joe, the caller was WRONG.  think about it.  Even if they HAD left when they were warned.  were would we put themk right now.  the city is uninhabitable, no people, no work, no food, no water, no nothing. so waht if they left early - will there would be more people alive of course.  you cant help that.  what you can do is have some compassion for those that are alive right now, and the fact is that whether they got out before hand it doesnt matter, we would still have to help an incridibely large number of homeless people.  The people that ae chosing to stay, they wil come to terms and realize that they need to go befoe long Joe, that city won't be anywhere close to running again for some time, more time than they got to survive IMO.  I look at it from the stand point is even if they left, they would still need our help.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2005, 11:49:13 AM »
Joe,

Part of the problem is that they were NOT told "Run for your lives."  They were told to leave but if they chose to stay to stock up for a few days.  That is not the right message to send, not to mention they were not sure which direction the storm would take.  That's one reason relief help was slow getting there, you have to position your resources out of harms way, since the storm path was not definately known the assests had to be kept way back.

Another thing Joe, one fifth of the population in NO does NOT have a car.  How far are you going to get?  Don't assume that "many", as Randy poorly stated, stayed by choice, and in Randy's assumption stayed for the chance to loot.

Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for some unbiased news accounts.  There has been alot of "intellectual" looting as a result of the disaster, shameless spin-doctoring and pulpit mongering by morally bankrupt individuals.
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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2005, 11:54:40 AM »
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Joe,

Part of the problem is that they were NOT told "Run for your lives."  They were told to leave but if they chose to stay to stock up for a few days.  That is not the right message to send, not to mention they were not sure which direction the storm would take.  That's one reason relief help was slow getting there, you have to position your resources out of harms way, since the storm path was not definately known the assests had to be kept way back.

Another thing Joe, one fifth of the population in NO does NOT have a car.  How far are you going to get?  Don't assume that "many", as Randy poorly stated, stayed by choice, and in Randy's assumption stayed for the chance to loot.

Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for some unbiased news accounts.  There has been alot of "intellectual" looting as a result of the disaster, shameless spin-doctoring and pulpit mongering by morally bankrupt individuals.
N.O. is a city with a high crime rate, but this does go toward something Kanye West said, they show a black family with stuf and they are looting, they show a white family and they are "looking for food" BS!  some people are looting no mater what color, but with no water no electricity, your food supply is gonna go bad fast, they have no choise IMO.  I agree with WOW on that.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2005, 11:58:47 AM »
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Joe,

Part of the problem is that they were NOT told "Run for your lives."  They were told to leave but if they chose to stay to stock up for a few days.  That is not the right message to send, not to mention they were not sure which direction the storm would take.  That's one reason relief help was slow getting there, you have to position your resources out of harms way, since the storm path was not definately known the assests had to be kept way back.

Another thing Joe, one fifth of the population in NO does NOT have a car.  How far are you going to get?  Don't assume that "many", as Randy poorly stated, stayed by choice, and in Randy's assumption stayed for the chance to loot.

Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for some unbiased news accounts.  There has been alot of "intellectual" looting as a result of the disaster, shameless spin-doctoring and pulpit mongering by morally bankrupt individuals.
I think that there IS truth to what you are saying -- there certainly was a lot of failure in this whole situation but if you think that no one stayed behind because they believed they could loot, I think you are sorely mistaken.  

The city had ordered evacuation but they also knew that not everyone WOULD leave -- even if the COULD leave.  Now, I would like to see if people had the opportunity to leave or not -- I certainly don't believe we know all of the truth at this point.  But if you think that noone stayed behind because they thought they could capitalize on the hurricane, I think you are sorely mistaken.

I also think that many never thought it would be that bad -- it's hard to fathom, isn't it?  I think if some had the opportunity after knowing how bad it is, they might have left.  But there is a REAL catch-22 for most of these people -- they didn't have insurance on their homes, they can't stay in their homes after this kind of damage even when the water is gone and they have no where else to go.  This is definately a huge crises for NO and our country.  It will be quite interesting to see how they are going to resolve it.

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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2005, 12:03:30 PM »
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Joe,

Part of the problem is that they were NOT told "Run for your lives."  They were told to leave but if they chose to stay to stock up for a few days.  That is not the right message to send, not to mention they were not sure which direction the storm would take.  That's one reason relief help was slow getting there, you have to position your resources out of harms way, since the storm path was not definately known the assests had to be kept way back.

Another thing Joe, one fifth of the population in NO does NOT have a car.  How far are you going to get?  Don't assume that "many", as Randy poorly stated, stayed by choice, and in Randy's assumption stayed for the chance to loot.

Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for some unbiased news accounts.  There has been alot of "intellectual" looting as a result of the disaster, shameless spin-doctoring and pulpit mongering by morally bankrupt individuals.
N.O. is a city with a high crime rate, but this does go toward something Kanye West said, they show a black family with stuf and they are looting, they show a white family and they are "looking for food" BS!  some people are looting no mater what color, but with no water no electricity, your food supply is gonna go bad fast, they have no choise IMO.  I agree with WOW on that.
I wouldn't call someone who is going to get food a "looter" -- it's not like they could go and get food -- everything was closed down.  But people were also picking up shoes, tv's, etc., etc., etc.

And as for color, give me a break -- people should be judged by their actions, not by the color of their skin.  Why does color come into this at all -- I'm sure there were people breaking the law of all races -- the idea that one race is exempt is pure prejudism.  A persons skin doesn't exempt them any more than it does give them the right to steal.  We need to negate the color of skin and make this an issue of right and wrong.

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2005, 12:10:09 PM »
Randy,

Trying to spin doesn't work with me in case you've ever noticed.  Never said that nobody stayed to loot, just stated that the assumption that "many" stayed for THAT reason is bogus.  Many people stayed for various reason, some because of poor information, some to protect what little they had, some because they had no choice and so on and so forth.  I'm sure there are those who stayed for the opportunity to take advantage of the situation and some probably took advantage of the situation when it presented itself.  

You can't use your broad brush to paint portraits like you have done in the past, it's wrong and you'll get called on it now and then.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2005, 12:12:03 PM »
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Quote
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Joe,

Part of the problem is that they were NOT told "Run for your lives."  They were told to leave but if they chose to stay to stock up for a few days.  That is not the right message to send, not to mention they were not sure which direction the storm would take.  That's one reason relief help was slow getting there, you have to position your resources out of harms way, since the storm path was not definately known the assests had to be kept way back.

Another thing Joe, one fifth of the population in NO does NOT have a car.  How far are you going to get?  Don't assume that "many", as Randy poorly stated, stayed by choice, and in Randy's assumption stayed for the chance to loot.

Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for some unbiased news accounts.  There has been alot of "intellectual" looting as a result of the disaster, shameless spin-doctoring and pulpit mongering by morally bankrupt individuals.
N.O. is a city with a high crime rate, but this does go toward something Kanye West said, they show a black family with stuf and they are looting, they show a white family and they are "looking for food" BS!  some people are looting no mater what color, but with no water no electricity, your food supply is gonna go bad fast, they have no choise IMO.  I agree with WOW on that.
I wouldn't call someone who is going to get food a "looter" -- it's not like they could go and get food -- everything was closed down.  But people were also picking up shoes, tv's, etc., etc., etc.

And as for color, give me a break -- people should be judged by their actions, not by the color of their skin.  Why does color come into this at all -- I'm sure there were people breaking the law of all races -- the idea that one race is exempt is pure prejudism.  A persons skin doesn't exempt them any more than it does give them the right to steal.  We need to negate the color of skin and make this an issue of right and wrong.
color shouldnt mater Randy, but the press made it that way, I understand why the black community is upset over this, I WOULD BE IF THEY DID THAT TO MY HISPANICS, LATINOS, CHICANOS, whatever term you wanted to use.   Paople have to survive, it's expected they will break the law. and yes I agree some people took shoes and whatever they could, and I dont doubt people went from register to register, bank to bank etc, getting what they could.  but I dont blame them for taking food and things they need.  Not one bit.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 12:14:35 PM »
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And as for color, give me a break -- people should be judged by their actions, not by the color of their skin.  Why does color come into this at all -- I'm sure there were people breaking the law of all races -- the idea that one race is exempt is pure prejudism.  A persons skin doesn't exempt them any more than it does give them the right to steal.  We need to negate the color of skin and make this an issue of right and wrong.
You need to preach that to the media.  It has been noted by some news agencies that certain media outlets are only showing the besieged white familes trying to escape the devastation at the same time only showing blacks heading in the oposite direction to get their "loot on".

Much like everthing else in the U.S. media, the so-called news is being "edited" to play up for the target audience.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 12:50:45 PM »
despite all of that, I think the most disturbing image for me was yesterday, they showed a young child - maybe 4 or 5 - that was saved, no shoes no shirt, being led by an adult when he stops and tell the adult, "My mommy is dead, she got pushed in the water by somebody."  I couldnt even imagine my four year old having to be left like that...
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.