Author Topic: Another view of the NBA draft  (Read 958 times)

Offline ziggy

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Another view of the NBA draft
« on: July 07, 2005, 01:32:50 AM »
I went back to the 1995 draft forward (did not include the most recent draft). I started in 1995, as that was the year Kevin Garnett was drafted thus ushering in
the high school player, and also because the vast majority of international players have been drafted after 1995.

I rated each player on a 6 point system.
6 = All Star (is regularly in contention for a spot on an all star team) examples - Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, VC, Shawn Marion, Rasheed


5 = An above average NBA starter (may have made an all star team, but is generally not in contention for an all star team, but is in the top 1/2 of all NBA
starters) - examples - Rip Hamilton, Kenyon Martin, Damon, Andre Miller, Micheal Finely, Shareef Abdur Rahim


4 = A below average NBA starter or a high quality reserve Examples - Bobby Jackson, Antonio Daniels, Bonzi Wells, Shane Battier, Matt Harpring, Bob Sura, Derek Fisher


3 = An NBA journeyman with 3+ years in the league (or at least MY projection of what you could reasonably expect based upon the data you have).
Examples - most first year #1 draft picks who played some but not a lot, Austin
Croshere, Gary Trent, Corliss Williamson, Fred Jones, Chris Mihm


2 = An NBA journeyman with 3 years or less in the league. A little crossover here, but I think the example would express the difference
Examples - Shawn Respert, Ed O'Bannon, Trajan Langdon, Mateen Cleaves, Moochie Norris, Evan Eschmeyer, Eric Barkley, Corey Benjamin.


1 = An NBA bust, less than 80 games in the NBA, and in most cases zero NBA games.

The results were as follows


College Seniors   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   40   8.33   3.85
Other 1st round   81   21.14   3.15
Second round   206   43.87   1.8


College Juniors   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   28   6.57   4.25
Other 1st round   18   21.44   3.22
Second round   14   39.07   2.21


College Sophomores   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   21   5.33   4.76
Other 1st round   11   21.27   3.18
Second round   11   48   1.91


College Freshman   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   16   7.5   4.31
Other 1st round   4   21.75   3.75
Second round   7   41.29   2.43


High Schoolers   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   15   6   4.47
Other 1st round   11   21.73   3.55
Second round   4   41.5   2.25


International players   # of picks   Avg pick   Quality Score
Lottery Pick   11   7.73   3.82
Other 1st round   31   21.97   3.1
Second round   49   44.76   1.61


The best players to pick in the lottery are college sophomores. The reason is because only 9.5% of the lottery picks who were sophomores did not become
starters (Keyon Dooling, and Jerome Mosio).  TJ Ford could be considered a non-starter but I am willing to see how the next 2 seasons progress, so I made him a
4.

The next best lottery picks were HS players. Out of 15 lottery picks, 5 have become all stars (Garnett, James, Bryant, McGrady, and Amare), and only 1 has
been a marginal player (Diop), and 1 seems to have become journeyman (Kwame Brown), and one (Robert Swift) looks like a potential journeyman, but that
could change.

College Seniors and International players selected in the lottery have about the same level of success.
There are only 2 college seniors that could be described as all stars (Duncan and Ray Allen). Only 1/2 of all college seniors that have been lottery picks would be considered NBA starters. That is a terrible success rate.

With International players lottery first round picks have  a high degree of variability. There have been some poor lottery selections of international players
Vitaly Potapenko
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Andris Biedrins (a work in progress)
Aleksandar Radojevic
Darko Milicic (another work in progress)

but some very good late first round picks
Predrag Stojakovic
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Andrei Kirilenko
Tony Parker
Hidayet Turkoglu
Nenad Krstic

The moral of all this

#1 - Draft Sophomores, and High Schoolers in the lottery.

#2 - Seniors are generally rated higher on draft boards than they should be, so after finishing your draft board, drop the seniors 5 spots or more.

#3 - Juniors have generally the least amount of risk (low % of players rated a 1 or a 2), but upside is not as great. Juniors drafted later in the first round have a better than average level of success.

#4 - Unless you have an absolute sure thing with an international player, draft them later in the first round.

Lets look at the latest draft based upon these results

1.)  Andrew Bogut  -  Based upon this I would call this an A.  Bogut is a sophomore and soph lottery picks have the highest success rate.

2.)  Marvin Williams  -  There has not been a Freshman drafted #2 or #1 in 10 years.  Those who were selected 3-5 have been 5 of the 6 best freshman picks.  I think it is safe to say this is a good pick.  I call it an A.

3.)  Deron Williams  -  There has not been a junior selected #1 in 10 years.  Of those who who have been selected 2-3-4 they are
Steve Francis
Antawn Jamison
Emeka Okafor
Mike Dunleavy
Ben Gordon
Jay Williams
Drew Gooden
That is a solid but not a great group.  I would rate this pick as no better than a B.

4.)  Chris Paul  -  A soph, and the clear #2 sophmore in the draft.  I rate this an A

5.)  Raymond Felton  -  A junior.  There have been a number of case of 2 Juniors selected in the same draft having success.  Very few juniors selected in the top 5 haven't had success, but seldom has there been 2 juniors in the top 5.  I would rate this pick a B.

6.)  Martell Webster  -  HS pick.  Six HS have been all stars, and I think there are 3 or 4 more who may get to that level.  The first HS picks have been
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Al Harrington (#25)
Jonathon Bender
Darius Miles
Kwame Brown
Amare Stoudamire
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
The 3 worst picks were Bender, Miles, and Brown, all drafted higher than #6.
This is an A.

7.)  Charlie Villanueva  -  Soph  There has been only 1 time when there were 3 good soph lottery picks (1995)  Rasheed, Stackhouse, McDyess, Joe Smith.  Generally when the 3rd sophmore is picked in the lottery, the third one is a disappointment.  With this being the #7 pick(or in other words pretty high in the lottery), I rate this pick a D

8.)  Channing Frye  -  Sr.  He is the first senior taken.  Previous first senior taken
Bryant Reeves
Ray Allen
Tim Duncan
Michael Olowokandi
Wally Szczerbiak
Kenyon Martin
Shane Battier
no senior lottery pick 2002
Kurt Hinrich
Rafael Araujo
This a pretty diverse group, from great to pretty marginal.  The good one were drafted earlier, the marginal ones later (the only exception is Candy Man) I would have to rate Frye as no better than a C.

9.)  Ike Diogu  -  Jr.  There have been some good juniors drafted at around this level who have been successful, but a lot that were pretty marginal.  Overall I would rate this a B

10.)  Andrew Bynum  -  HS  HS centers take a longer time to develop, and are very hard to project (Robert Swift, Eddie Curry, DeSagana Diop, perhaps Kwame Brown)  I say this is a long term project, with no guarantees.  Seldom do teams like the Lakers have the chance to make a lottery pick and when you do you need to make it count.
The average ranking for players rated 10-11-12 has been 3.4.  The average score of players drafted 13-20 has been 3.6.  the Lakers would have been better served to trade down 5 or 6 spots, and acquired another player they could use or another draft pick.  In all reality they could have got Bynum then, and added another pick or another player.
I have to rate this pick as a C-, maybe a D.

11.)  Fran Vazquez  -  Realistically you have better luck selecting international players after the lottery, as only 3 lottery picks have been good (Yao, Dirk, and Gasol) while non lottery picks have been (Peja, AK47, Manu, Illguaskis, Parker, Okur, Udrih).  The #11 and #12 players over the last 10 years have been on the average nothing more than NBA journeymen.  I would rate this a C, because it is at least not in the top 10.

12.)  Yaroslav Korolev  -  See Fran Vazquez above.  Of course 1 pick later means that is a slightly better pick, so maybe a B-, but really I think it is a C.

13.)  Sean May  -  There has been some decent success drafting Jrs. at 12-13-14-15.  Those players drafted then would be (Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Luke Ridnour, Mo Taylor, and Marcus Haslip).  I would rate this a B-.

14.)  Rashad McCants  -  Also a Jr., so he would be much like May.  In other words a B-


It is late so I will do the rest of the first round tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2005, 03:49:41 PM by ziggy »
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline ziggy

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Another view of the NBA draft
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 12:50:09 AM »
Picking up where I left off.

#15 - Antoine Wright NJ Nets  -  This is the first time in 10 years that the 6th Jr was drafted this high.  The previous high for the 6th Jr was 18 in 2002, next highest was 23.
Comparing to 2002 which was a banner year for Jrs the players drafted were
Jay Williams
Mike Dunleavy
Drew Gooden
Chris Wilcox
Marcus Haislip
Curtis Borchardt
Kareem Rush
Casey Jacobsen
Frank Williams
Chris Jefferies
Roger Mason Jr.
Carlos Boozer
I think this indicates that Wright will probably be a decent reserve to a below average starter in 3 to 4 years.  That would make this pick a B.

#16  -  Joey Graham  Jr Toronto  See Antoine Wright

#17  -  Danny Granger  -  SR  Indiana  The second Senior taken in the last 10 years has been drafted on average at #9.  In the last 5 years (which really takes into account the impact of the increase in underclassmen being drafted), has been 12-13.  The score has averaged 4.2.  That indicates that this is a good pick, I would call it an A.

#18  -  Gerald Green HS  Boston  -  He is the 3rd HS, but also the second HS non-center.  Others like him,
Jermaine O'Neal
Rashard Lewis
Leon Smith
DeShawn Stevenson
Tyson Chandler
Travis Outlaw
Shaun Livingston
Based upon that it is clear that this is a good pick, a clear A

#19  Hakim Warrick  SR Memphis.   Here are the other seniors taken 18/19/20
Theo Ratliff
John Wallace
James Posey
Jason Collins
David West
Randolph Childress
Walter McCarty
Scot Pollard
Pat Garrity
Quincy Lewis
Jamaal Magloire
Ryan Humphrey
Jason Caffey
Paul Grant
Roshown McLeod
Speedy Claxton
Brendan Haywood
Dahntay Jones
Jameer Nelson
They have average quality score of 3.3, and the average for non-lottery seniors is 3.15.  That would make this an OK pick, about what you would expect.  That would make it a B-.

20 - Julius Hodge Sr  Denver
See Hakim Warrick

21 - Nate Robinson  JR NY Knicks  Other players drafted 21 are
Michael Finley
Dontae' Jones
Anthony Parker
Ricky Davis
Jeff Foster
Morris Peterson
Joseph Forte
Qyntel Woods
Boris Diaw
Pavel Podkolzin
None of these are Juniors.  Overall this is a diverse group, making this a bit of a crap shoot, but I would say probably a B.

22 -  Jarrett Jack  JR  Portland  Portland acquired this pick for the #27 and #35.  Average score of players drafted near 22 is 3.8, while players drafted near 27 is 2.8, and players drafted near #35 2.0.  So Portland got a player who will probably be a below average NBA starter or a high quality reserve, for a journeyman who will be in the league around 3 years, and one that will be in the league 2 years or less.
This is basically one of the following 2 deals

Blazers get Derek Fisher for Jacque Vaughn and Evan Eschmeyer
Blazers get Speedy Claxton for Eric Barkley and Clavin Booth
Derek Fisher, and Claxton are 2 PG drafted 20 and 24, Jack is a PG drafted 22.
Those are both excellent deals.
This pick is an A.

23  -  Fransisco Garcia  Jr Sacromento  Juniors drafted at 22-24 were
Casey Jacobsen
Brandon Armstrong
Tyronn Lue
Delonte West

All players selected at 23
Tayshaun Prince
Devean George
Bobby Jackson
Travis Best
Brandon Armstrong
Tyronn Lue
Travis Outlaw
DeShawn Stevenson
Sergei Monia
Efthimis Rentzias
This is a decent group, but this is the 10th junior selected in this draft.  It is hard to believe this will be anything more than a journeyman NBA player.
This pick is a C

24  -  Luther Head  -  Sr.  Houston  This is the 5th senior picked.  In the last 5 years the 5th senior selected has been
Mateen Cleeves
Jamaal Tinsley
John Salmons
Troy Bell
Jackson Vroman
This is not a real hot group, lets be honest.  These 5 players were selected on average at #23, and this is #24.  A typical #24 pick has an average quality rating of 3.1.  Head will be nothing more than an average journeyman in the league for about 4 to 5 years.  At #24, I guess that would make this a B.

25  -  Johan Petro Int, Seattle  The other International Big guys drafted 23-27 are
Nenad Krstic
Dalibor Bagaric
Jake Tsakalidis
Martin Muursepp
Primoz Brezec
Vladimir Stepania
Not real impressive bunch.  None have had more than a couple of decent seasons.  The probability that Petro will change that is pretty low, but Krstic, Brezec, or Stepania at 25 wouldn't be bad.
This pick is a C
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil