I need some advice.

[Rickortreat]

I've been out of work for a year and a quarter, until last week.  I got a temp job doing an XP migration for a company who is a subcontractor, who hired me from an out of state agency.

The job payed $15.00 an hour, which sort of sucks, but when you're out of work, you sort of take what you can get!  

That job ends this week, but the agency now has another opportunity with the same subcontractor.  This time the job pays 16.50 an hour, but the job is from 9:30PM to 5:00AM.

IMO, this sucks.  To become a Vampire and work all night and sleep all day, I think I should get more money.  More like at least $20.00 an hour.

What do you guys think, should I just take it, and continue to look for a decent job during the day, or tell the agency that I won't do the job for less than $20?

The work isn't difficult, but it does require an understanding of network connectivity, backing up PC's through a ghost process and the typical USMT tool for both backup and restoration after the PC has been imaged with XP.  

[Reality]

What do you guys think, should I just take it, and continue to look for a decent job during the day, or tell the agency that I won't do the job for less than $20?

 

If you tell them to blow the nightwork, what $$ will you live off?

[rickortreat]

That's the problem.  I've been living off of my savings, and they've been declining.  I still have some money, but I'd rather hold on to it.

This leaves me in a situation where I want to work.  But at the same time my prospective employer is in a bind.  How many people do they know who are qualified to do the work, and are willing to work the graveyard shift? And, how quickly can they find such people as the job starts May 27th and lasts 2 weeks.

The real question is what is the job worth to them.  They need to find people who can do the work at a specific price point in order to be profitable.  From my perspective I want as much of that money allocated for labor as possible.

The company that needs the work done is unwilling or unable to pay a full-time staff to do the work.  They go to an outside contractor, who's primary appeal is the ability to supply the labor at a superior price than the company can on it's own.  They in turn look to agencies like the one I'm working with to get the labor to do the work.  So I'm in a situation where there are two middle men between me and the source of the money, each taking a percentage of the value I'd be creating for the customer.

By demanding more money to do the work, I might be able to squeeze more out of the middle men.  Obviously if I push too hard, I run the risk of them not comming to me with more work.  On the other hand, while it's good to make a living, it's better to get paid more to do the same work.  I'm overqualified for this position, and underpaid for the value I create.

Other people can do the same work, but might need to take more time to do the job.  I'm more efficient since I make fewer mistakes.  I know this from experience and working with others.  The job I'm on now was projected to need 4 people, but is being done by three.  Out of the three, I'm the most productive, but am not the lead tech.  

I'm just trying to figure out how much leverage I have.  They need someone to do the work, it's just a matter of finding out how much they're willing to pay me to do the job.  They don't know my situation which is my only advantage.  The only thing they know is that I've been willing to work at this rate for a short period of time.  I don't want to continue to work at this price level if I can avoid it so these middle men can make money off my labor. They're not paying me benefits or doing anything special for me. The job won't lead to anything great with the company.  Although it is possible that I will wind up doing this type of work in a place where the actual customer will recognize my value and offer my the type of position I want, that would simply be a case where my value is recognized, it's not something that these middlemen are trying to do for me.  Working a graveyard shift is not going to give me any visibilty.  It will pay the rent, however!

It's better than nothing, but I'm used to making more like $28 an hour plus benefits.    

[Reality]

<The real question is what is the job worth to them. They need to find people who can do the work at a specific price point in order to be profitable. From my perspective I want as much of that money allocated for labor as possible.>

All true.  Do you realistically have any way of finding that out?  Current workers of same temp co at (for you) May 27th job site.  Risk of their lying/twisting/blabbing what you ask them about?  Lot that going around today.

Or could you tell tempies of your output....however...

From supervisors point of view....while your individual output may rock, supers concern is team output.  If he/she perceives you are being an individual MVP but not a team player that helps motivate the other clones to attain a good team output, your superiority could actually work against you.

Notice i said perceives.  Many supers have no business being supers, but they are.

 

[rickortreat]

I suppose what I'm really looking for is feedback on the going rate to do this type of work.  So that I'm not underpaid or being taken advantage of.

I'm no prima donna, all IT is, is a means to support a business and make it more effiient.  In a good company, IT facilitates the companies growth.  It doens't benefit them if I'm good and no one else on my team is.  The more I can help the other team members, and learn from them, the better an employee I am.  

It's impossible for one person to do the work of twenty.  But it is possible to help the other people on your staff become more efficient if they're open to it.  A good supervisor tries to enhance his team by finding good people he can rely on to get the job done.   My experience has been that they're more good at BSing their way forward, than in actually being competant at what they do.  

[Joe Vancil]

Rickortreat,

I can't speak for your situation, but my take on this is that if you were doing the work around here, you should be looking for more money.  Just guessing at your  experience, I'd say you should be in the $22.50/hour range.  The fact that it's a graveyard thing might add or subtract from that, but I don't know.

My advice:  GET OUT!  IT skills are in demand, and it is imperative that you find a place where you are not only using your current IT skills, but developing new ones on a company's time and dime.  The worst situation is to work as a part-timer/consultant only during the time when your skills are at their sharpest, only to have to train yourself in new ones later on, at your cost.

A personal friend is one of the brightest minds I've ever met in the field of computers.  He should be a Network Administrator or Director of Information Systems somewhere.  Instead, he's out-of-work.  Why?  He tried to make it on his own, and when his projects dried up, his skills were out-of-date, and his resume showed a large gap in his "real" work experience.  Such is the folly of consulting;  if you can make it, there are rewards to be had, but if you fail, you fail *BIG*.  If you don't have a list of on-going loyal clients who you know you can rely on needing your services far, far into the future, then you need to stay away from any type of individual consulting except as a source of ADDITIONAL income.

Sure, call me the evil corporate swine, but the pay is decent, and I sleep well at night...in my own bed rather than in a hotel room.  I did the consulting thing for 4 years, and I determined that the only person who makes real money is the owner of the consulting company.  I went to a company, and had a 25% pay raise within one year, coming in a guaranteed paycheck twice a month.  A year after that, I was the Director of Information Systems for a company on the NYSE.  I'm back to my technical roots now, but I'm being paid well, treated well, and I'm doing what I enjoy - and you're not going to get that in the job you're in.

Get out while you can.  Technical skills don't age well.

 

[rickortreat]

I agree with everything you said Joe.  In fact, I have been trying to become a Network Admin.  Frankly, I'm not sure why I've had so much trouble frinding a decent job, but I have and it is what it is.

So, I've been studying to get my MCSE and trying to find work.  The only job I've had was this little gig.  Now, they're offering me another one for slightly more money, and so far, they're the only offer I have.

Since it's only a two week assignment, it's probably not worth it to try to squeeze an extra 3 or 4 dollars an hour out of these guys, runing the risk that they won't look to hire me for future gigs.

In my case, I was perfectly happy to have a permanent job with Merck. Not great money, but more than enough for me to live on, and enough to give me money to speculate with in the markets.  Unfortunately that job is gone, and I need another one.  I have no problem working for other people, and understand full well, that they can't pay me what I'm really worth, and still make a profit.  

[westkoast]

Is there a specific reason they need you to work those hours?  To me it sounds like they want you to be in doing all that work when no ones around...to me that should warrant more pay because its not anything you couldnt do during normal business hours.  If they want you to do it at night in case anything goes wrong so it doesnt impact the users, you should be paid more.  Sounds like somewhat of an odd request.

Anything that requires networking knowledge should automatically take you a few bucks higher than what they pitched you, right off the bat.  Do they know you have been out of work?  Ted is right, corporate america as a whole is finally realizing that there is ROI when it comes to what IT can put together for the company.  No longer is it just pointless overhead that has to be there cuz every other company has IT guys.

9:30 to 5am is horrible hours IMO....worse than my 6:30am to 5pm hours.

[Ted]

Is there a specific reason they need you to work those hours?  To me it sounds like they want you to be in doing all that work when no ones around...to me that should warrant more pay because its not anything you couldnt do during normal business hours.  If they want you to do it at night in case anything goes wrong so it doesnt impact the users, you should be paid more.  Sounds like somewhat of an odd request.

Anything that requires networking knowledge should automatically take you a few bucks higher than what they pitched you, right off the bat.  Do they know you have been out of work?  Ted is right, corporate america as a whole is finally realizing that there is ROI when it comes to what IT can put together for the company.  No longer is it just pointless overhead that has to be there cuz every other company has IT guys.

9:30 to 5am is horrible hours IMO....worse than my 6:30am to 5pm hours.

 :unsure:

 :bash:  

[westkoast]

Is there a specific reason they need you to work those hours?  To me it sounds like they want you to be in doing all that work when no ones around...to me that should warrant more pay because its not anything you couldnt do during normal business hours.  If they want you to do it at night in case anything goes wrong so it doesnt impact the users, you should be paid more.  Sounds like somewhat of an odd request.

Anything that requires networking knowledge should automatically take you a few bucks higher than what they pitched you, right off the bat.  Do they know you have been out of work?  Ted is right, corporate america as a whole is finally realizing that there is ROI when it comes to what IT can put together for the company.  No longer is it just pointless overhead that has to be there cuz every other company has IT guys.

9:30 to 5am is horrible hours IMO....worse than my 6:30am to 5pm hours.

:unsure:

 :bash:

That one was actually a typo this time LOL

Cut me some slack I made that post first thing this morning

[rickortreat]

They company is an around the clock telemarketing operation, they want the work done during off-peak hours.  The assignment starts in a week which gives them little time to find anyone else.  

The thing is, I need the money, and I have to respond to them by today.  I hate being in this situation, but I don't think I can bluff my way into making a few more bucks an hour out of them this time.  

[WayOutWest]

I don't know the market in your area so my advice is probably useless.  IMO any IT capable worker gets $25 per hour direct.  When you run a job through a consulting business it's typically higher.  I'm not exactly an IT guy, I do know enough to put it on my resume, I was an network admin for two years.

Contracting is great when you have the work, unfortuanately most people aren't discipline enough with their money to ride out the rough spots when there is little work.  I contracted for over 5 years and typically for long term projects, 3 months or more, the rate was $55, short term work was between $65-$75, and emergency work, or stuff like your night shift was $85-$125.  Never had anyone question my rate, plus when I run stuff through my friends companies or they run stuff through mine we bump up the rate by $10-$15 bucks per hour.

IMO the primary is charging at least $25 per hour, sounds like he's taking a 30% cut, that's more than double what I would expect.  

IMO it's not worth your time to do that type of work on that SCHEDULE for that money, live off credit cards or something and use that time to find better work.  

I've been there done that, I know how bad is sucks.

[rickortreat]

Thanks Wow.  

As it is, I've been out of work for so long, I'm glad to do anything to make a buck!  Since the job is at night, it also gives me the opportunity to look for work and do interviews during the day, as well as prepare for my MCSE.

You're probably right about what the agency is getting, and I wrote them telling them that I expected a significantly higher pay rate for any future work.  It appears the IT market is picking up locally, and I'm trying to position myself for higher paying positions than doing simple help desk or deskside support work.

Thanks to everyone for your imput.  I appreciate your advice.

By the way, the gold market continues to remain repressed, but IMO this is about to change.  If you have any free cash available, I would suggest that keeping it in dollars or real estate would be a serious financial mistake, particularly with the US pressuring China to decouple it's currency.  If you think you're seeing higher prices now, wait until all those electronic toys you like start rocketing up in price.  

[WayOutWest]

Have you tried a head hunter?

Check out Dice.com for temp work.  Monster and others are available for regular work but its tough to find something.  Hands down the number one method to find work is networking.  Talk to anyone and everyone who might have a lead to some work.

The employment gap you have is extreemly tough to deal with, you need to practicing answering questions about that issue.  You must put a positive spin on it, do not give a "hard times" answer, that will really turn an employer off.  

[westkoast]

Head hunters will get you work, of course they get their little 'finders fee' and all that but a job is a job.  Plus once you get your foot in the door the company can chose to pull you on as a real employee instead of a temp.  I get at least 4-5 calls a month from IT headhunters asking me if we have a spot open to interview someone.  Im lowest on the IT chain at work so I can only imagine how many the higher ups end up getting.