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Author Topic: Shaq v Wade  (Read 5898 times)

Offline Skandery

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Shaq v Wade
« on: May 16, 2005, 01:18:00 PM »
Seems like everyone is beating around the bush about this whole Shaq v Wade deal; who is truly the Heat's main guy.  I'll go ahead and ask the question

If you had the first round, first pick in real life to put together a team to win the championship "THIS" year.  I repeat:  to win the championship *THIS* year.  Whose it gonna be, Shaq or Wade??
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2005, 01:28:09 PM »
Shaq.  Wade's easier to replace.
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Offline westkoast

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2005, 01:28:31 PM »
You cant chose one or the other IMO....

Shaq by himself this year wouldnt have been able to play the lower minutes (because the team would need him more) and he would be the main and only focus of the defense.  The Heat would have had a tough time with no Wade and just a hurt Shaq who couldnt play against the Wizards.  If he is hurting now imagine what shape he would be in if he had to play 10 more minutes a game.

Wade by himself this year wouldnt have been very different than last year.  He would still be able to play at a high level but they would not have the size or mismatch in their favor against teams like Indy and Detroit.  Pretty much would be a repeat of last year.  Wade has an easier time with Shaq on the floor because he is not the main focus, just the secondary focus, and he gets more space to do his thing.

In order for the Heat to play like they have been and to get it done in the playoffs they need both players.  Shaq cannot win it all himself, we saw this first hand when he was with the Lakers.  Wade would not be able to win it himself either.


I also disagree with DB about Wade being easy to replace.  There are only 2 guards who could take Wade's spot and that is Lebron James and Tracy McGrady.  Kobe would be one of them if Shaq didnt hate his guts LOL.  These are the kind of play makers on the perimeter Shaq needs, especially with his energy level being so low.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 01:32:02 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Skandery

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2005, 01:35:55 PM »
So Westkoast, you'd rather be fired by the owner of the team for deciding to forego your first round draft pick because you just couldn't have one without the other.  :rolleyes:  
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2005, 01:44:05 PM »
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I also disagree with DB about Wade being easy to replace

I didn't say Wade's easily replacable.  I said he's easier to replace than Shaq.
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Offline westkoast

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2005, 01:49:55 PM »
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So Westkoast, you'd rather be fired by the owner of the team for deciding to forego your first round draft pick because you just couldn't have one without the other.  :rolleyes:
Skandery...first of all, Shaq is far from a guy comming out of college, so you can ditch the first round pick talk.  There are other factors that work into taking Shaq right now.  As you can see the Big Fella is in a big hurt and unable to play.  As a GM you look more than just one season, you look ahead.    So your question is flawed in a number of ways.

Second, the Heat wont win without both players.  So when you ask the question 'who would you chose to win it all this year, if you can only take one' I say 'Neither' because they need both to win.  I know Wade cant win on his own and Ive seen Shaq, first hand, not able to win it all by himself until he got a perimeter player that could help him out a bit.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 01:51:58 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Reality

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2005, 02:06:25 PM »
Slimmed down Shaq.  No one can proclaim for a fact he'll return to fatness next season either.

The JOneal slam that bruised Shaqs thigh had nothing to do with Shaqs age or condition.

Lets post Shaqs record without Bryant.  It actually improves.
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Offline SPURSX3

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2005, 02:26:02 PM »
shaq in his prime and slimmed down would be bar none THE MAN.  however Wade has had an AWESOME season this year and has really made a great leap in progress - people talk about how good lebron is, yet this kid is right with him IMHO.

I will say that Wade is able to become what Kobe wanted to become - the MAN.  right now Shaq is essential but the man that has pulled the heat along this season is Wade IMO.  
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Offline westkoast

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2005, 02:59:14 PM »
Quote
Slimmed down Shaq.  No one can proclaim for a fact he'll return to fatness next season either.

The JOneal slam that bruised Shaqs thigh had nothing to do with Shaqs age or condition.

Lets post Shaqs record without Bryant.  It actually improves.
Lets stay on topic here....No where in this thread title does it say Shaq V Kobe.  You are also comparing a younger Shaq who was in his prime to a man who's body has taken quite a beating.  If you really want to make it a laker argument why not bring up the fact the Lakers were unable to win the division with Shaq as the one and only.

GMs dont look ahead to just the next season.  They make moves for the future of the team.  After seeing Shaq's age, his size, and how hes unable to make it all the way through another season....it may change a GMs decision on who they would chose to build around.  Do you ditch Wade for a few years with Shaq?  Or do you ditch Shaq, knowing he can get your team to the promise land, because he wont be there for the long haul.  Tough decision.
 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 03:00:15 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2005, 03:48:02 PM »
I'd take Shaq, right now.  Oh, it would be great to have the younger Shaq.  It would be great to have a lot of things.  But Shaq, as he is right now, is not only a dominant post threat, but one of only two truly dominant post threats in the league.  Not to mention, the team that got better play from its CENTER in the finals has won the championship across the last 25 years - more times than any other position.  Even if the difference is the difference between Luc Longely and Greg Ostertag.  With Shaq, that advantage is almost automatically mine.

And if Shaq isn't of sufficient value next year, there's always someone willing to take him off my hands.

I like Wade a lot better, but if the name of the game is winning the championship, I'll take Shaq.
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2005, 03:58:37 PM »
Oh, by the way, westkoast, if I'm forced to choose between winning now and winning later, I'll win now.  I can always acquire the players I need to win later...later.  The only chance I have to acquire the players I need to win now...is now.

Dynasties don't happen because teams "build for the future."  They happen because a team that decided winning was so important that they'd win *NOW*, and they kept that focus so that ANY losing was only a temporary thing.  They never "re-built," but instead, kept winning as the top priority.
 
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Offline westkoast

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2005, 04:50:36 PM »
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Oh, by the way, westkoast, if I'm forced to choose between winning now and winning later, I'll win now.  I can always acquire the players I need to win later...later.  The only chance I have to acquire the players I need to win now...is now.

Dynasties don't happen because teams "build for the future."  They happen because a team that decided winning was so important that they'd win *NOW*, and they kept that focus so that ANY losing was only a temporary thing.  They never "re-built," but instead, kept winning as the top priority.
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Oh, by the way, westkoast, if I'm forced to choose between winning now and winning later, I'll win now.  I can always acquire the players I need to win later...later.  The only chance I have to acquire the players I need to win now...is now.

While I agree...with a player like Wade you dont always get another chance.  Wade is something very special and these kinds of play makers dont just pop up anywhere.  If he was just a scorer id agree....hes a leader, hes a scorer, he is a great passer, he is a slasher, hes a shooter, hes a good teammate, hes humble.  How many players are there that have all the qualities he has shown over the past 2 season?

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Dynasties don't happen because teams "build for the future."  They happen because a team that decided winning was so important that they'd win *NOW*, and they kept that focus so that ANY losing was only a temporary thing.  They never "re-built," but instead, kept winning as the top priority.

Yes they do Joe.  You have to slowly grab the pieces to build the team up.  The Bulls didnt become a dynasty because they decided to win *NOW* they became a dynasty because they slowly put together the right pieces.  The Lakers didnt become a dynasty in ths 80s overnight because they decided to just win.  They slowly got the pieces together in order to compete.  
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Offline Reality

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2005, 06:43:51 PM »
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Slimmed down Shaq.  No one can proclaim for a fact he'll return to fatness next season either.

The JOneal slam that bruised Shaqs thigh had nothing to do with Shaqs age or condition.

Lets post Shaqs record without Bryant.  It actually improves.
Lets stay on topic here....No where in this thread title does it say Shaq V Kobe.
Well with the subject being what Shaq could do on his own, with history having well over 100 games of Shaq without Kobe it would indeed be "off topic" to you.

 
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2005, 06:47:23 PM »
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Quote
Quote
Slimmed down Shaq.  No one can proclaim for a fact he'll return to fatness next season either.

The JOneal slam that bruised Shaqs thigh had nothing to do with Shaqs age or condition.

Lets post Shaqs record without Bryant.  It actually improves.
Lets stay on topic here....No where in this thread title does it say Shaq V Kobe.
Well with the subject being what Shaq could do on his own, with history having well over 100 games of Shaq without Kobe it would indeed be "off topic" to you.
Yes because Kobe is different from Wade and the Heat are different than the Lakers.  This thread was started because Skan felt there was a debate about who is more important to the Heat, Wade or Shaq.

I notice you tap danced around the fact that Shaq was unable to win the division or get anywhere in the playoffs when he was with the Lakers all by himself with no perimeter all-star.  
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Offline Reality

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Shaq v Wade
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2005, 06:53:00 PM »
You talking about tap dancing?  "We werent on the board before 2003."

Yes what division was Shaq unable to get alone?  He and Bryant played together almost the entire time in Lakerville.  
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