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[Derek Bodner]

because you can't coach size

And this theory I don't like.  This is what leads to Kwame, Curry, Chandler and Diop being draft far before they should.  Jim McIllvaine, Calvin Booth and Vitaly Patopenko getting deals they don't deserve.  Not to mention Blount and Foyle this year.  GM's get fired over big's who flash a bit of ability.

I'll take the swingman on the verge of stardom over these risks.

[westkoast]

because you can't coach size

And this theory I don't like.  This is what leads to Kwame, Curry, Chandler and Diop being draft far before they should.  Jim McIllvaine, Calvin Booth and Vitaly Patopenko getting deals they don't deserve.  Not to mention Blount and Foyle this year.  GM's get fired over big's who flash a bit of ability.

I'll take the swingman on the verge of stardom over these risks.

You also have to take into consideration that its very hard to know for sure if a player is going to be able to adjust to the NBA game and lifestyle.  I dont disagree with what you are saying, I also think its silly to gamble with a player simply because he is big.  Some of the guys you mentioned did show something (ie kwame) that impressed a number of people.  Maybe the scouts should start developing tests/tasks that test how players will make large leaps from high school to the nba or even the college to the nba.  With how mental this game really is Im curious if they already do, do this when scouting players.

[rickortreat]

Well this is what separates the good teams from the bad ones.  The ability to find a big man that will really develop into a top-flight center.  It is extremely rare for any team to win consistently without a quality big man.  Only MJ was able to do it, and even he had adequate centers like Cartwright and Wennington who could rebound and defend.

Since MJ, every team that has won had a great big: Shaq or Duncan.  You want to win a championship?  You have to take a shot and pray the player develops.  Most of the time you end up with Ewe Blap!  Remember him?

Most really tall guys don't develop the coordination to be a top-flight NBA center.  And even if they have the coordination, they don't have the capacity to learn the game.  And sometimes they can't handle the pressures of the NBA.  Roy Tarpley could have been a great one, but couldn't stay away from the drugs.

Dalembert had a monster game tonight, with most of his points comming after he picked up his fifth foul a few minutes into the third quarter.  How's this for a box score:

11 of 13 2 of 2 for 24 pts.  6-offensive and 10 defensive for 16 boards, 4 blocks 2 turnovers.  

Can't trade that for anything less than a really exceptional player.  Since he is a 7 footer, a team that needs one might be willing to part with such a player.  Joe Johnson for Dalembert would be nuts.  Amare Stoudemire and Joe Johnson might make me trade him if I was Billy K.  And as great as it would be to have those two players,  chances are I would say no!  Great bigs are very rare and they only come around like every 5-10 years.  Think of how dominant Shaq has been in the past few years, or Chamberlain in his prime.  This is why KG and Duncan and Shaq and J.O'Neil get the big bucks.


"Maybe the scouts should start developing tests/tasks that test how players will make large leaps from high school to the nba or even the college to the nba. With how mental this game really is Im curious if they already do, do this when scouting players."

I'm sure they do, but it's not an exact science.  You just can't tell.  I thought Todd MacCullough would be a serviceable center.  Not a great one, but good enough.  And what happens?  A rare degeneterive disease stops his career before it gets started.  He's a radio broadcaster for the Sixers now.  Ces't la vie....  

[Guest_Randy]

Okay, Rick, if you meant your post as a joke, it was GREAT!!!  If you didn't, I think you need to take the Sixers blinders off.

Dalembert had:  24 points, 16 rebounds and 4 blocks.

Amare averages:  25.7 points, 1.14 steals, 1.6 blocks and 8.5 rebounds per game.

You suddenly feel because of ONE game that Dalembert is worth more than Amare?  You suddenly, because of one game, MIGHT consider a trade of Amare AND Johnson for Dalembert?  Suddenly your logic enters the scope of "reality" -- not true reality -- only the "reality" of this board and one begins to seriously ask how much you've had to drink because it's obviously impairing your judgement.

Dalembert has done this ONCE and you are ready to pronounce him in the same breath with Shaq and Duncan?  I can name a TON of players who have had brilliant games -- a LOT of guys are one game wonders but let's tether our feet (and our mind) back on the ground and recognize that it's just ONE game -- not a season.  This guy has some potential but so far this season it is NOT being demonstrated.

He is averaging:  6 PPG, 1.6 blks, 6.6 reb. on 51% FG%.  Hmm, certainly not worthy of Shaq and TD reference -- DEFINATELY not worthy of Johnson and Amare.  I think trading for Dalembert would be a GREAT thing for Phoenix -- they can afford to trade Johnson (who IS a legit shooter and scorer -- someone who WOULD work together well with AI) and they need a biggie who can play team D (Dalembert's specialty) and rebound the ball.  Phoenix doesn't need (or want) his offense (there isn't much to talk about) except on the glass and that fits well into Dalembert's skills.  

IF Dalembert were as good as you say, he would have games like this more consistently -- he isn't!

[WayOutWest]

Amare Stoudemire and Joe Johnson might make me trade him if I was Billy K.  And as great as it would be to have those two players,  chances are I would say no!

LMAO.  Comments like that make me question yourt knowledge of the game.

If you took a poll you would probably find out that people would more likely turn down a trade of Amare for Iverson AND Dalembert.  Amare is a great big man, two weeks into his rookie season I told people who would listen that Amare would be a star and he's exceeding my expectations.  My mistake was thinking Yao would be better than Amare.

P.S.  The phrase you guys are thinking is "you can't teach big" NOT "you can't coach size".  Stop clowing around and talk serious hoops.

[rickortreat]

Dalembert is a work in progress, but he's a Center.  Amare is a forward, a better talent, but still a forward.  Centers are more valuable simply becasue there are fewer good ones than PF's.

Dalembert would be enough to put Phoenix over the top is they kept Marion, Stoudemire and Richardson.  I want the Sixers to win a championship, not the Suns.  And I certainly wouldn't give the Suns a shot at the title for Joe Johnson!

Will Dalmebert ever reach his potential?  Who knows.  He' s not anywhere near Duncan, Shaq or O'Neill right now.  I think he could become a 25pt 12 reb. player, which would put him up there with those other players.  He's a better shotblocker, but doesn't post up well, or play position well.  

But with Dalembert and Iverson and the others  young players the Sixers have, they have a shot to make it back to being an elite team.  A guy like Amare would probably be enough to get them there, as long as they kept those two.  

[Guest_Randy]

That's a LOT of "what ifs" Rick -- and you are mistaken if you think that just because Dalembert is 2 inches taller and plays center that he is worth so much more because of that.  It all boils down to what they actually do on the court and Dalembert has shown some potential but less than Curry has with the Bulls, IMO.  The Sixers would be ridiculously stupid not to take Amare for Dalembert -- of course, that is never going to happen.  However, taking Johnson -- a player who WILL help them win games for a player like Dalembert, a player who MIGHT help them win games -- I think of all the stupid trades that the Sixers have made -- this one is one they SHOULD pull the trigger on.

[rickortreat]

If they made that trade then they'd be another team desparatly looking for a Center, as oppossed to Pheonix.  

Become a donught team with a front line of Marc Jackson, Kenny Thomas, Joe Johnson, Andre Igoudala and Iverson.  No one to block shots.  No one to rebound with the bigs in the NBA.  No one to provide any inside game.  

Let the Suns go begging for a center.  

[Guest_Randy]

But Rick, it's not like Dalembert's a rebounding machine -- he is average like 6.6 rebounds -- face it, Thomas is a better rebounder than Dalembert.  And keeping a player because he is a shotblocker isn't a good reason to keep a player - UNLESS you have the offense covered.  See Phoenix doesn't NEED a center with offense -- Philly does.  Dalembert doesn't have any offense -- which is exactly what Phoenix needs -- Philly needs BOTH offense and defense at their center position, IMO.  

Who knows if Dalembert will ever reach his potential -- Philly might be faced with gambling on Dalember's future or focus on guarantees in the present.

[Derek Bodner]

Well, Dalembert is the best rebounder on the team, he's not leading because of minutes.

And philly actually scores plenty of points, it's defense and rebounding right now.

But rick's crazy on this way.  No way dalembert averages 18/12, let alone 25/12.

[Guest_Randy]

Dbods, I haven't seen enough games to be an expert on Philly -- what I have seen makes me believe that Thomas is a better rebounder than Dalembert -- but I haven't seen enough to state this as fact.

I will say that while Philly scores enough points -- it's not just how many points, they shoot an INCREDIBLY poor FG% from the floor -- they are 26th in the league in that area.  It's not just adding offense but BETTER offense.

[rickortreat]

Dalembert's biggest problem is staying out of foul trouble so he can stay on the court.  He's not a primary scorer for the Sixers, but when Iverson or on of the others is driving the lane, Dalmembert is a great target for a dunk as the defender is drawn to the slasher.

He changes other team's inside shots and forces them to take shots outside.  Most teams are in trouble if they can't score inside.

Once he learns how to establish position he'll become a better rebounder.  It would also help if the Sixers wouldn't take so many early shots before he gets a chance to get into postion.  It would also help if the misses didn't bounce so far away from the rim, which is more about the accuracy of their misses and the distance from which they shoot. He's a little light, so he needs to get some respect from the officials when a fatso like Shaq pushes him out of the way.  

Most teams, particularly in the East have no one to guard him.  As long as he doesn't put the ball on the floor, he can score a lot of points.  

To part with a player with his ability, you'd have to come up with something substantial to offset the loss of a Center.  The Sixers are short enough as it is, and we can't afford to loose the one 7 footer we have.  Joe Johnson isn't enough for me to give up Dalembert.  Stoudamire and Joe would be.  That's all I'm saying.  

[WayOutWest]

Dalembert's biggest problem is staying out of foul trouble so he can stay on the court.  He's not a primary scorer for the Sixers, but when Iverson or on of the others is driving the lane, Dalmembert is a great target for a dunk as the defender is drawn to the slasher.

He changes other team's inside shots and forces them to take shots outside.  Most teams are in trouble if they can't score inside.

Once he learns how to establish position he'll become a better rebounder.  It would also help if the Sixers wouldn't take so many early shots before he gets a chance to get into postion.  It would also help if the misses didn't bounce so far away from the rim, which is more about the accuracy of their misses and the distance from which they shoot. He's a little light, so he needs to get some respect from the officials when a fatso like Shaq pushes him out of the way.  

Most teams, particularly in the East have no one to guard him.  As long as he doesn't put the ball on the floor, he can score a lot of points.  

To part with a player with his ability, you'd have to come up with something substantial to offset the loss of a Center.  The Sixers are short enough as it is, and we can't afford to loose the one 7 footer we have.  Joe Johnson isn't enough for me to give up Dalembert.  Stoudamire and Joe would be.  That's all I'm saying.

Rick,

I've seen the kid play quite a lot, I'm a fan of the inside game and what you have in Dalembert is a young version of Mutombo except WITHOUT the defense!  :rofl:

Give him time and he may develope into a decent role player but he doesn't have the upside of Amare or even Chris Bosh.  Dalembert is very akward unlike Amare and Bosh who are raw but show Hakeem like moves, in the end he may one day become as good as another ex-sixer, Ratliff.  

[rickortreat]

That's a pretty good analogy, except that Dalembert is more coordinated than Mutumbo.  I remember watching Deke play, cringing everytime he tried to post up.  It was like watching a real player in slow motion.

Dalembert has more potential than Mutumbo ever displayed.  I am seeing improvement in his game.  Tonight he had a double-double in the Sixers victory over the Heat.  He had 16 pts on 6-11 and 4-6 FT's 11 bds, 3 offensive, three fouls and three blocks, including one on Shaq.  He was the Sixers second leading scorer behind Iverson tonight and they beat the hotest team in their conference.

No question Amare has more upside as a player but as I said, Centers are harder to find.  

 

[WayOutWest]

No question Amare has more upside as a player but as I said, Centers are harder to find.

Amare ALREADY plays center better than Dalembert.  The difference is Amare is in the west where there are bigger players at the PF and C.  Out east you've got Shaq, JO and Big Z and that's about it.  At 6'9 you've got Big Ben as one of the top centers in the league so those extra few inches that Dalembert has on Amare doesn't translate into anything.  Any GM who values Dalembert over Amare needs to be fired.