Michael Vick vs McNabb

[Reality]

B)  

[Derek Bodner]

Michael Vick threw for 82 yards last game.  Please.

You can even add up all of his yards and he only accounted for 201 yards of offense.

5.1 yards per attempt (the most important QB stat) last game.

Vick isn't half the QUARTERBACK McNabb is at this time.

[Reality]

I'm sure Philly can count on another fumble squirming out of their recievers grasp into another of their recievers hands.  In the end zone.
Or ATL being like MN and forgetting to send a reciever downfield on a fake field goal pass attempt.

When Vick, aka Speedy Gonzales starts racing around the carpet at the new Philly stadium, it's gonna be the same results as the last three NFC Champ games.

Falcons 31
Eagles 21

 

[Derek Bodner]

Typical Reality argument.  Forgetting the other side.

I'm sure Philly can count on another fumble squirming out of their recievers grasp into another of their recievers hands. In the end zone.
Or ATL being like MN and forgetting to send a reciever downfield on a fake field goal pass attempt.

Just like we can count on the refs absolutely BLOWING a fumble that was blown dead when Culpepper's hands was clearly still going backwards when the ball was knocked lose.

Just like maybe next time they can count on McNabb to forget he doesn't have any more timeouts and throw to Levens 4 yards short of the first down and let time expire rather than kick a chipshot fg.

Just like they can count on Freddie Mitchell fumbling the ball INTO the endzone.

See reality, for every bit that the Eagles got lucky, they also had bad luck.  For the bonehead field goal attempt the Vikings missed, we missed one as well.

Sure, IF Freddie Mitchell isn't in the right spot, and IF Mike Tice doesn't make a mistake, that game might have been tied.

But IF Freddie fumbles that ball one yard earlier and the eagles now have the ball at the 1 and IF McNabb doesn't make the mistake setting up the field goal and IF the refs make the correct call on Dante's fumble, then that's a 44-14 game.

But yeah, ignore the one side of the argument.

[Reality]

I just wanted to get your dobber up.
Man you're starting to sound like a...Laker?  B)

Actually I'm starting to sound like ESPN.com, which headlines and article was
"Eagles outplay self-destructing Vikings"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=250116021
The article only mentioned the MN destructs, none of the ones you mentioned.   I know and new ESPN.com along with it seems every sports media outlet seldom if ever tells you what really happened.  And most of the time they miss all of it.

I wish some of you would go to MadTVGuy.com and download some shorts of comedian Frank Caliendo doing John Madden impersonations.  Priceless.  Especially the one where he does Madden and Pat Summeral doing play by play.

I was unable to catch any of the Eagles game.  Saw a lot of yesterdays Pitt-NYJ and ATL-StLuis game but almost nada of today.

The Rams were atrocious by not staying home on D coverage.  Michael Vick feasts when defenders overplay.  Keep him in the pocket and your teams chances go up dramatically.  However I'll stand by my ATL prediction. Jim Mora and his O coordinator have designed a lot of plays to get Vick rolling out.  Plus their D has been pretty.  So its not all gonna be on Vicks shoulders.   But Eagles must be pumped to finally bring another Bowl appearance to Phillyvile.

[Derek Bodner]

The article only mentioned the MN destructs, none of the ones you mentioned

I was unable to catch any of the Eagles game

Shocker.

[Reality]

are we allowed to comment on games we dont watch?

[Derek Bodner]

I don't think it's very wise to claim a team got lucky if you haven't seen the game, no.

Why?  Because you have no idea what really happened.

[rickortreat]

McNabb is a much more developed qurterback than Vick.  Only someone who doesn't know the game would think Vick was better.

Both are tremendous athletes who can buy time to throw, which crushes a defence.  Both are threats to run and break open a game with their own ability.

But McNabb is now a complete quarterback, who prefers throwing to running, and even passes up opportunities to run, while waiting for his recievers to get open.  Vick doesn't have that patience or ability to wait for his recievers.  (He also doens't have as good an offensive line, or a running back like Brian Westbrook.)

Against most teams Vick will be good enough for his team to win, but not against a team with a good offence and a good defence.  The Eagles are both,  giving up around 16 pts in a game, third best in the league and first in the NFC, Atlanta isn't even in the top ten.  On offense, the Eagles average almost a field goal more per game than the Falcons.

Pehahaps one day, when Vick gains more experience, and has some better recievers, and chooses to stay back and throw as oppossed to running, there will be more of a basis for comparison.  This year McNabb threw for 3,875 yards and 31 TD's with 8 interceptions and a rating of 104.7.  Vick threw for 2313 yards and 14 TD's with 12 intereptions and a rating of 78.1.  It's not even close.

And, if you watch the game this Sunday, you'll see a repeat of the last time the two teams played, when the Eagles won easilly.  

 

[Reality]

I don't think it's very wise to claim a team got lucky if you haven't seen the game, no.

Why?  Because you have no idea what really happened.

I know I don't know what exactly happened in the Eagles game.
Thus my posts of:

"I just wanted to get your dobber up.
Man you're starting to sound like a...Laker?" and...
Actually I'm starting to sound like ESPN.com, which headlines and article was
"Eagles outplay self-destructing Vikings" continuing "The article only mentioned the MN destructs, none of the ones you mentioned. I know and new ESPN.com along with it seems every sports media outlet seldom if ever tells you what really happened. And most of the time they miss all of it."


Thus i want us to come to back to:

Sunday, High Noon.[/size]  What is your take on how Philly is going to end the Falcons season?
My take is that Eagles took a big hit when T.O. went down.  How big of a hit?  Good win vs MN, but lets see if they can continue it.  dabods pointed out how many brain farts the Eagles had vs MN.  They do that again and ATL might not gift them back like MN did.  It was not just Vick vs Rams, it was the whole ATL running game combined with that superb punt return dude/punt return team.  Now I'm not saying the Eagle special teams won't clamp down on that, but i like that angle for ATL also.  As with all big games, it will probably turn on some turnover or somesuch.  Might come down to how the field goal kickers do.  I am wanting to see how Eagle D does vs Vick and co.  I refute all claims that they will stuff ATLs offense.

rt you are correct sir in that "when Vick gains more experience, and has some better recievers, and chooses to stay back and throw as oppossed to running, there will be more of a basis for comparison.", with the exception of "chooses to stay back and throw."  As you mentioned look at his current recieving corps.  Look what McNabb has had to deal with the past seasons.  While indeed Vick will need to develope more of a passing game, it's not what currently drives ATL to wins.  Darn near 400 yards rushing vs St Louis.  ATL runs, McNabb and Eagles can't have the ball.  Will he and ATL run all over Eagles?  Not like they did vs Rams but I say you arent gonna shut him down.  And his passing is very timely.  He can layser thread the midrangers.  Especially on the run.  Had a beauty for a t.d. to Peerless Price.  As can McNabb.  In a way they are similiar with their run/pass option.  Vick with his blazing speed combined with ability to change directions not seen since Deon Sanders.  McNabb with his being like a freaky QB/halfback/fullback combo who can pass.

rt on the QB rating stats schmatz.  See Jonny Elway passer ratings.  I'm gonna see if I can find the article on "10 greatest NFL myths."  #1 was the gagging oft repeated "Defense Wins Championships"  Article had solid stats that while of course a team needs a good or at least adequate D, it's the teams with the top offenses that had way more modern day Super Bowl appearances and wins then All D teams.  Read, that is not to say a team does not need a good D.  Simply that All O with so-so D actually does much better then All D with so-so O.  The real solid teams have both.

[rickortreat]

Vick isn't the first QB to dazzle fans with his running ability.  Perhaps you remember Randall Cunningham?  Randall had lots of exciting times in the NFL, but he never won a Super Bowl, inspite of having one of the great defenses of all time backing him up, and a decent running back in Wilbert Montgomery, and a fair recieving corps.   Right now, Vick is the new Randall Cunningham, while McNabb and Culpepper have graduated into becomming real NFL quarterbacks who can run when situations suit them.

When I look at the Falcons, I see a team that hasn't played anyone good yet that they've managed to defeat.  The Rams didn't even belong in the playoffs, and wouldn't have even gotten in, except that the Eagles threw them a game by resting their starters.   Seriously, they lost to New Orleans (Split) Seattle, Tampa Bay (split) Kansas City and Detroit.  None of these teams are close to as good as Philly, but they had no problem dealing with Vick and Co.

Just look at the Stats and you'll see that Atlanta doen't even belong on the field with the Eagles.  The only reason they're comming is that they are second best in the NFC, and a poor second at that.  In terms of team defense and offense the Eagles are way above Atlanta.  The Falcons have excellent special teams, but so do the Eagles.  In addition, Allen Rossum is an Eagles reject.  

You may want Atlanta to win, but seriously, they're going to have to be very lucky to have a chance next weekend.  And they're going to need more than just Philly missing TO to win.  They're going to have to stop a team that only the Steelers were able to stop (and the Eagles didn't have Westbrook)  Although their record was 13-3 this year, it could easilly have been 15-1, but Reid chose to rest his players in the last 2 games.  

The Eagles are an elite team this year, with a good shot to win it all.  Atlanta is a pretender team that got in on a weak schedule.  
 

[Reality]

Eagles racked up lot of their stats when T.O. was in.

Rams i concur were not a true test for Falcons.  But a 47-17 dismantling works for me.

I hope you are sitting at a sideline/endzone seat and spill your beer when Speedy Gonzales races into the endzone past your falling Eagle Defenders.

p.s. I don't count the fog game that Randall got ripped off in.  We all know that game should have never been played.  Farce NFL overlords.  Most painful game ever was Randall up like 21 points on Joe Montana, only to have Super Joe come back and win.  Remember that one?

[rickortreat]

Yeah that Fog bowl was the worst joke ever.  Couldn't even see what was happening on the TV screen!

The 49ers were the better team then, no surprise they won that one.

One thing you can count on is the Eagles containing Vick.  The first thing that will happen is that Atlanta will realize they can't run on the Eagles, and will have to throw to win.  Then Vick will look downfield and see his recievers are covered by 3 Pro Bowl secondary players.  He will look to run and find no open lanes.  Shortly after that, Vick will be on his back looking up at the sky and wondering who it was that clobbered him from the blind side while he was waiting for his recievers to get open.  (It will be Brian Dawkins on a blitz!)

By halftime, Atlanta will be demoralized, and down by two touchdowns.  

[Derek Bodner]

So how'd speedy gonzalez look today?

Donovan McNabb had more passing yards than the amazing Vick.  better completion percentage.  more touchdowns.  Oh yeah, but Vick did have more interceptions (oops!).

Not only that, McNabb had more rushing yards than Vick.

All week long all you heard about was the amazing Vick.  The falcons great D.  The #1 rated running game in the league (ballooned by Vick, their backs are above average at best), yet the eagles ran for more yards today.

Meanwhile, the dominating Eagles D got no respect.

While Vick runs, not scrambles, McNabb is a threat to by time with his legs.  He'll get the yards running, or if the linebacker's sneak up, float it over their heads for a 20 yard pass.

That play where McNabb dodged 4 Falcons, scrambled, then threw to Pinkston for the first down was the quintessential McNabb play.  He's become a great quarterback.  Vick is a terrific athlete.  I said so before the game, and I'll say it now.

Vick is overrated.  136 yards passing.  45% completion percentage.  162 yards from scrimmage.  218 passing yards combined for 2 games.  

Total Yards:
Atlanta: 202

[Reality]

McNabb did a much better job of scrambling, buying time, evading, pass/run.  
Speedy didn't show up.
I was most baffled by the ATLs play calling.  Felt Vick could have taken off and ran many times but instead its like hes trying to prove the (you) critics wrong by staying in and passing.  It didn't work.  I know Philly had a spy but nonetheless the middle was open to run a lot.

You and rt probably didn't come clost to spilling a beer.  Except when you got that lucky td that wasnt.  Foot on the line.  Initial foot, Left foot on out of bounds line not the right dragger, right dragger looked good in.  (Actually stinky Fox refused to show us any angle that would be helpful.)  Talking heads per usual a joke.
 
ATLs D played fantastic.  Held Philly to FGs in several tough situations.  Freaking O never did return the favor.  McNabb lucked out big time when ATL db dropped the INT.  But ATL O does nothing with it.  

Philly gets monkey off back.  McNabb played much better then Vick.