Author Topic: Merry Christmas, Randy.  (Read 2180 times)

Offline Joe Vancil

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« on: December 22, 2004, 12:37:42 PM »
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Guest_Randy

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2004, 12:57:08 PM »
A great Christmas present -- now if I can just get Yahoo to enable his Center status once again!  lol
 

Rickortreat

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2004, 01:09:04 PM »
Err, not exactly.  According to the NBA the arbitrator has no standing.  Just because he says O'Neil can play, doens't mean Stern says he can play.

So far, Stern hasn't said anything, but then again he doesn't have to.  The NBA already filled suit to dispute Kaplan's right to arbitrate, and the NBA did not participate in the hearings.

Anyone want to give odds on whether or not O'Neil plays this Saturday?  

Offline Laker Fan

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2004, 01:11:03 PM »
Wrong headed decision by the "arbitrator". I hope the courts uphold Stern (I can't believe I'm saying that) in his decision. IMO O'Neal deserved a season long suspension right along side Artest.
Dan

Guest_Randy

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2004, 03:08:57 PM »
I just can't agree Dan -- I think a fan coming onto the court DESERVES to have his clock cleaned!  This fan was coming AFTER players on the court -- we've seen enough scary things happen in tennis and baseball to make this a VERY serious trespassing -- not saying that O'Neal doesn't deserve to get suspended -- just that he doesn't deserve to get this long a suspension when a fan steps onto the court.

Offline WayOutWest

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2004, 03:37:46 PM »
Quote
I just can't agree Dan -- I think a fan coming onto the court DESERVES to have his clock cleaned!  This fan was coming AFTER players on the court -- we've seen enough scary things happen in tennis and baseball to make this a VERY serious trespassing -- not saying that O'Neal doesn't deserve to get suspended -- just that he doesn't deserve to get this long a suspension when a fan steps onto the court.
BS Randy.  I can understand JO if it had happened when the fan initially came onto the court to confront Artest but the cheap shot was after it had been broken up and security where holding the fan.  Cheap punk shot, JO is lucky to get off with only 25 games.
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Offline Laker Fan

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2004, 03:44:26 PM »
Of course I know his being on your fantasy team has nothing to do with your assessment, (:rolleyes:) I will address your point about the fan on the court.

It is one thing to clock some cat who runs out onto the court and is directly threatening you or a teammate, (and whether this particular fan was "coming after" Artest is IMO debatable), it is quite another to come running from 25 feet away, take a running start at someone who was in a sitting and defensless position on the floor being held from behind and attempt to knock him into the middle of next week. If O'Neal hadn't slipped, no telling how badly he could have injured a completely defensless (however idiotic) person. I short, O'Neal had no right whatsoever to do what he did, regardless of the heat of the moment or the defending a teammate argument. He wasn't defending anyone, he was taking a free and potentially very lethal shot at a defensless human being. Regardless of whether this cat is moron or not (he is), what O'Neal did was inexcusable. I'll even give Artest the benefit of the doubt regarding his sissy woman's shot he took at the guy because at least at that point he was standing and facing Artest.
Dan

Offline Lurker

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2004, 04:51:47 PM »
Federal judge rules O'Neal can play....

Judge OKs Return of Pacers Star for Pistons Rematch

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) - Indiana forward Jermaine O'Neal can play against Detroit on Christmas after a federal judge upheld an arbitrator's decision to reduce the Pacers star's suspension for his part in a Nov. 19 brawl between the teams.

Judge George B. Daniels ruled from the bench Thursday after listening to arguments by lawyers for the NBA and the players' union and watching a brief videotape of O'Neal punching a fan during the brawl.

 
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Guest_Randy

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2004, 05:25:43 PM »
Quote
Of course I know his being on your fantasy team has nothing to do with your assessment, (:rolleyes:) I will address your point about the fan on the court.

It is one thing to clock some cat who runs out onto the court and is directly threatening you or a teammate, (and whether this particular fan was "coming after" Artest is IMO debatable), it is quite another to come running from 25 feet away, take a running start at someone who was in a sitting and defensless position on the floor being held from behind and attempt to knock him into the middle of next week. If O'Neal hadn't slipped, no telling how badly he could have injured a completely defensless (however idiotic) person. I short, O'Neal had no right whatsoever to do what he did, regardless of the heat of the moment or the defending a teammate argument. He wasn't defending anyone, he was taking a free and potentially very lethal shot at a defensless human being. Regardless of whether this cat is moron or not (he is), what O'Neal did was inexcusable. I'll even give Artest the benefit of the doubt regarding his sissy woman's shot he took at the guy because at least at that point he was standing and facing Artest.
Who said that what O'Neal did wasn't inexcusable -- however, the fan being on the court was MORE inexcusable than O'Neal's actions, IMO.  

Sure, O'Neal is on my FNBA team -- and sure, that may skew my objectivity but I have seen some HORRIBLE things happen on the baseball field and tennis courts -- fans have ZERO right on the court, field, etc. and a fan DESERVES to get taken out, IMO, for being where he doesn't have a right to be.  Whether you believe it or not, I believe it DOES endanger players, refs, etc. if fans feel that they have the right to walk onto a court or field.  This time the fan didn't do anything -- next time it may not be the same.

There are a couple of other reasons:  
  1) it wasn't like O'Neal didn't get penalized for this one -- but he got penalized greater than ANY other player who has EVER encountered a fan, another player, etc.  When Maxwell went into the stands and hit a fan, he got a seven game suspension -- O'Neal is suspended for 25 for hitting a fan who was ON THE COURT!  That's a BIG difference, IMO.
  2) what happens to the fan who walked onto the court?  Is he going to get suspended from the NBA?  Is he going to be charged?  O'Neal was penalized severely for his reactions to a fan crossing over the line -- the fan, however, is going to get rich over it.  IMO, if SOMETHING doesn't happen to the fan -- than some fans will CONTINUE to feel entitled to the right to walk onto the floor anytime they want to.  IMO, that's NOT the message the NBA needs to send to fans.  Perhaps, O'Neal's message is a little clearer than the NBA's.
  3) I believe O'Neal deserved to get punished -- I don't believe he needed a worse punishment than Ben Wallace, IMO.

Offline Laker Fan

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2004, 06:16:51 PM »
Illogic at its best Randy. As I said, it is one thing to defend yourself if the fan were fronting you off on your court, it is entirely another thing when someone takes a running start at a COMPLETELY DEFENSLESS human being who is being held from behind in a sitting position, that is pure, unadulterated, unprovoked, assault, nothing less, regardless of whether the idiot fan was on the court or not. By your criteria any fan on the court is fair game for whatever an NBA player feels he can do, by your criteria he could have pulled a knife or a gun on the cat because he is "fair game". And don't give me the fans have pulled knives at tennis matches comparison, this cat was NO THREAT WHATSOEVER TO ANYONE! He was being held by 2 men from behind for crying out loud! I suppose by that same criteria, in a melee like that, if a little girl wandered out onto the court, she therefore poses a threat and hey after all, she's now fair game, knock her teeth down her throat too!

I am not saying the fan was not wrong for stepping on the court, he absolutely was, and it is my understanding he is being charged, but O'Neal's action were no less horrific and unjustifiable than Artest going into the stands and therefore deserves the same level of punishment.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, "DESERVES to get taken out, IMO, for being where he doesn't have a right to be." What they deserve is arrest, jail time, criminal charges filed against them, and banning them from the arena. And oh yes, let's include they deserve a punch in the nose if are attacking or threatening someone on the court by way of the player defending himself, but such was not the case here, O'Neal savagely and uprovokedly attacked a defensless human being, it was wrong, and it was criminal, period.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2004, 06:18:11 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan

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Merry Christmas, Randy.
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2004, 06:22:10 PM »
I am not suggesting Randy, that you would in any way endorse a fan attacking a little girl who wandered out onto the court, I know you better than that, but I am saying that there is no way an absolute right of anyone to take matters into his own hands because someone stepped onto the court, especially when the fan was already clearly subdued and being effectively restrained.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2004, 06:22:33 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan