How bad will Charlotte really be?

[westkoast]

Which is exactly what the Bobcats have made very clear to anyone paying attention. When a team spends that kind of money on marketing for a single player that says something

What were they supposed to market, we have no star player, no hope, and no future/

Right now,  he's  a draft pick.  Draft picks are great unknowns.  They sell.  They generate excitement.  in a town that didn't support its old team, you have to generate excitement.  Marketing it off a collegiate champion that people have seen and that has a future is going to generate a lot more buzz than "hey, we have a team of castoffs!"

Dabods, you are mistaken.  The Hive wasnt packed for years and years?  That was one of the gripes people had when the team moved in the first place.  People loved basketball down there.  They kept breaking attendance records even tho they had one of the worst teams in the league.      That place was constantly selling tickets.   You must have them mistaken with the Atlanta Hawks.  David Stern wouldn't have stretched the league out to 30 teams if he didnt feel the market in that area was strong.

What were they suppose to market?  The team as a whole.  Fresh young talent.  New team, new look, heck...just a basketball team ready to play for Char.  The Hornets didn't need a bunch of marketing or a winning team to fill the stands.   The Clippers dont market just one guy.  Why?  Because they didnt have one stand out star who outshines the rest.  The Grizzlies don't just market one guy.  Why?  Because they dont have one stand out star who outshines the rest.  Last time a single player in Charolotte was marketed like that it was Larry Johnson.  A franchise player who was suppose to lead the team to and thru the playoffs.  You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.  What does that tell you?  They think he is the truth.

[Ted]

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team. Marketing strategy determines level of team play.

Hmm, this is a new argument. I'll have to spend four seconds considering it before I  :rofl:  

[Ted]

This is so stupid. Let it go westtoast. He's the number two pick in the draft; a guy many thought would be the first pick in the draft. Of course they're going to market him. Of course they're going to call him the cornerstone. He's their first lottery pick. He's a big man. He's talented. :rolleyes:

I'm curious about these quotes he's made. He sounds pretty arrogant in your information, like he expects to be the leader, the man. Here's what I've seen.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...17-okafor_x.htm
(text not included in this post)

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/9941000.htm?1c

JEFF SINER, Staff
The Bobcats' Emeka Okafor says he expects the team to win more than 22 games this year. "No question in my mind. I'm a positive thinker. Lose, lose, lose - I'm not accepting that."

Rookie nibbles

The Bobcats' Emeka Okafor talks about food, politics and his role with the team

You ask Emeka Okafor what he does better than play basketball. He gazes at the assortment of plates sitting in front of him, and the answer is self-apparent.

"Eat," he says between twirls of pasta and bites of crusty bread.

It's 3 p.m. at Frankie's, the swanky Italian restaurant on Morehead Street, and the Bobcats' 252-pound rookie is starved after a three-hour practice.

He starts with a chicken Caesar salad that most of us couldn't finish as an entrée. Then he picks at a loaf of bread, dipped in olive oil, balsamic vinegar and cheese. Then comes the pasta -- angel hair with shrimp -- and you ask him what food he can never turn down.

"I love sweets," Okafor says. "Anything warm with ice cream on top. Apple pie with ice cream ... molten cake with ice cream "

As if in reply, a waiter shows up minutes later with a brick-sized brownie covered in chocolate sauce, accompanied by a cloudbank of vanilla ice cream. If Okafor is risking a spare tire, you'd never know it by his shape. Bobcats trainers project he burned 3,000 to 4,000 calories daily in two-a-day practices.

In-between bites, Okafor fielded questions from Observer NBA writer Rick Bonnell:

Q. So which is harder, business calculus (the subject he taught himself to test out of a college requirement) or mastering NBA offenses and defenses? With business calculus, I could take my book home and study it. What I have to learn about the NBA takes 82 games over several seasons. Plus, you don't have 300-pound guys bumping you while you're trying to learn business calculus.

Q. Have you gotten lost in Charlotte's tangled streets yet? I actually found my way accidentally before I got lost. I was coming home from somewhere, and for whatever reason I decided to turn in the opposite direction. I'm driving down this (unfamiliar) street and the next thing I know, I'm home. So I was lost and found at the same time without knowing what was what.

Q. Buy or rent? Right now, I'm renting. I hope to buy.

Q. Will that be some luxury condominium or a home outside of town? I have no idea. That's why I'm renting right now.

Q. The Bobcats succeeded with an advertising campaign ("Okafor in '04") portraying you as a politician. Do you have any interest in politics? When you're young, you can't really vote and you think, "How much do politics really affect me?" Now I'm getting to that age where you start paying attention. (Okafor says he'll vote in the Nov. 2 election.)

Q. If basketball hadn't worked out, but you'd still graduated from Connecticut with a business degree, what would you be doing now? I'd be on Wall Street in New York, doing something with the stock market. I like a fast-paced life. I can't sit down for very long.

Q. So you mean working on a trading floor? I think so ... it sounds exciting.

Q. How old were you when you decided you could be a really good basketball player? Eighteen. In my freshman year (of high school), I didn't think I'd play college basketball. I thought, "Dang, I better prepare myself for what I thought was the inevitable." Then I gained a little more weight and got a little bigger. I got a little stronger. And by the time I got to a college campus, I thought I might be able to do this if I really apply myself.

Q. Are the elite kids doing the right thing by jumping straight to the NBA? You're 18 years old and somebody says, "Here, do this, and you're financially set for life." You'd say, "Sure, I'll do it." College is great. A degree is great. But it doesn't necessarily guarantee security. What if a recession hits and there's no job out there to get? If you get one of the guaranteed contracts the NBA's offering, and you budget right, you'll be set.

Q. So you don't think kids leave too early? If there's a doubt in your mind, then there's a doubt for a reason. But if you're guar-an-teed, a no-brainer (to go high), then it's the nature of the NBA draft that you have to (go). The draft is all about timing. If it's your time, then grab opportunity by the beard ... An NBA career is very perishable, it has a very short shelf life.

Q. What's the silliest thing you ever did? When I was younger, I hated getting haircuts, so I tried to give myself a haircut one day. I still have a mark because of it and my hair goes funny. I did, like, a crooked line and that line is still there today. I guess I used infected scissors or something.

Q. Complete this sentence: "When Bernie Bickerstaff tells me to go out and guard Shaquille O'Neal, I will..." (In a false voice straight out of a comic book) I will guard him! I will do my duty for the Bobcats ... and take his mighty blows! (laughs). And he'll dunk on my head and say, "Who's dunking on who, rookie?" as he runs down-court.

Q. What's the personal possession you couldn't do without? My backpack. I have so much stuff in there, some I never really use ... I just feel like if I need something, I can reach into my backpack and it will be in there.

Q. If you could switch places with another professional athlete, who would it be? Yao Ming. He's international, and I bet he's gone through some interesting stuff. He's so big and so big in his homeland (China) of a billion people. He has to be an icon there.

Q. The best advice you ever got is... To enjoy all that I'm going through right now. I heard that over and over again - throughout college and now. And you know what? I'm doing it.

Q. The person who abused me most on a basketball court is... No one as of yet. I know it's coming, though.

Q. What's it like practicing every day against someone the size and heft of a Jahidi White (6-foot-9, 290 pounds)? He takes a piece of your will every time you hit him ... The way he's built, he just doesn't have to move unless he wants to.

Q. It's Race Week in Charlotte. Would you let Dale Earnhardt, Jr. drive you around Lowe's Motor Speedway at 150 mph? I certainly would not let anybody drive me around at 150 mph ... You do your thing, man. No offense, but I have some bright days I'm looking forward to living through. I wouldn't want to risk it.

Q. Do professional athletes marvel at what other professional athletes do? I marvel at how baseball players can hit a ball. In a split-second they determine the location of a pitch, whether to go for the home run, whether to pull it. That is crazy ... I marvel at how a quarterback can see the whole field and how a wide receiver can run at full speed, focus on a target and hold on to the ball as they're getting hit. We do have awe, even though we're professionals, too. We do ask, "How'd he do that?"

Q. North Carolinians love college basketball, but their loyalty is divided among several teams. Describe what the Huskies mean to Connecticut. Everybody is absorbed. It's like the team and the state are as one. The hearts beat to the same rhythm. It's like their life force. As a player, you couldn't ask for anything better.

Q. What would hurt Connecticut more, losing the men or women Huskies? They're one and the same, man. If Connecticut doesn't get a championship, it gets grouchy ... The girls are racking up too many. Our one or two banners to their five or something. They're mocking it, laughing at it.

Q. None of the last six expansion teams have won more than 22 games the first season. Think you can top that? No question in my mind. I'm a positive thinker. Lose, lose, lose -- I'm not accepting that.

Q. When you got your contract, what's the first thing you bought for yourself that you always wanted? When I was young, I wanted a whole lot of stuff. But the closer I got to the NBA, the less I cared about material things. Now I care so little about material things, it's ridiculous ... Really, the only thing I did was bring my parents to the Olympics with me.

When I went back to college - to Connecticut to visit friends - they said, "Emeka, you really haven't changed at all." I had the same bum-ish habits, doing the same things.

I really haven't changed.

I'm curious to see the quotes you're talking about.

[westkoast]

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team. Marketing strategy determines level of team play.

Hmm, this is a new argument. I'll have to spend four seconds considering it before I  :rofl:

Koast version:

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

Ted version:

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team.


Big difference buddy.  I did not say it was the only way to do it but they should be focusing in on the whole team and not riding one single guy who has not played a lick in the nba.  

[westkoast]

This is so stupid. Let it go westtoast. He's the number two pick in the draft; a guy many thought would be the first pick in the draft. Of course they're going to market him. Of course they're going to call him the cornerstone. He's their first lottery pick. He's a big man. He's talented. :rolleyes:

I'm curious about these quotes he's made. He sounds pretty arrogant in your information, like he expects to be the leader, the man. Here's what I've seen.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...17-okafor_x.htm
(text not included in this post)

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/9941000.htm?1c

JEFF SINER, Staff
The Bobcats' Emeka Okafor says he expects the team to win more than 22 games this year. "No question in my mind. I'm a positive thinker. Lose, lose, lose - I'm not accepting that."

Rookie nibbles

The Bobcats' Emeka Okafor talks about food, politics and his role with the team

You ask Emeka Okafor what he does better than play basketball. He gazes at the assortment of plates sitting in front of him, and the answer is self-apparent.

"Eat," he says between twirls of pasta and bites of crusty bread.

It's 3 p.m. at Frankie's, the swanky Italian restaurant on Morehead Street, and the Bobcats' 252-pound rookie is starved after a three-hour practice.

He starts with a chicken Caesar salad that most of us couldn't finish as an entrée. Then he picks at a loaf of bread, dipped in olive oil, balsamic vinegar and cheese. Then comes the pasta -- angel hair with shrimp -- and you ask him what food he can never turn down.

"I love sweets," Okafor says. "Anything warm with ice cream on top. Apple pie with ice cream ... molten cake with ice cream "

As if in reply, a waiter shows up minutes later with a brick-sized brownie covered in chocolate sauce, accompanied by a cloudbank of vanilla ice cream. If Okafor is risking a spare tire, you'd never know it by his shape. Bobcats trainers project he burned 3,000 to 4,000 calories daily in two-a-day practices.

In-between bites, Okafor fielded questions from Observer NBA writer Rick Bonnell:

Q. So which is harder, business calculus (the subject he taught himself to test out of a college requirement) or mastering NBA offenses and defenses? With business calculus, I could take my book home and study it. What I have to learn about the NBA takes 82 games over several seasons. Plus, you don't have 300-pound guys bumping you while you're trying to learn business calculus.

Q. Have you gotten lost in Charlotte's tangled streets yet? I actually found my way accidentally before I got lost. I was coming home from somewhere, and for whatever reason I decided to turn in the opposite direction. I'm driving down this (unfamiliar) street and the next thing I know, I'm home. So I was lost and found at the same time without knowing what was what.

Q. Buy or rent? Right now, I'm renting. I hope to buy.

Q. Will that be some luxury condominium or a home outside of town? I have no idea. That's why I'm renting right now.

Q. The Bobcats succeeded with an advertising campaign ("Okafor in '04") portraying you as a politician. Do you have any interest in politics? When you're young, you can't really vote and you think, "How much do politics really affect me?" Now I'm getting to that age where you start paying attention. (Okafor says he'll vote in the Nov. 2 election.)

Q. If basketball hadn't worked out, but you'd still graduated from Connecticut with a business degree, what would you be doing now? I'd be on Wall Street in New York, doing something with the stock market. I like a fast-paced life. I can't sit down for very long.

Q. So you mean working on a trading floor? I think so ... it sounds exciting.

Q. How old were you when you decided you could be a really good basketball player? Eighteen. In my freshman year (of high school), I didn't think I'd play college basketball. I thought, "Dang, I better prepare myself for what I thought was the inevitable." Then I gained a little more weight and got a little bigger. I got a little stronger. And by the time I got to a college campus, I thought I might be able to do this if I really apply myself.

Q. Are the elite kids doing the right thing by jumping straight to the NBA? You're 18 years old and somebody says, "Here, do this, and you're financially set for life." You'd say, "Sure, I'll do it." College is great. A degree is great. But it doesn't necessarily guarantee security. What if a recession hits and there's no job out there to get? If you get one of the guaranteed contracts the NBA's offering, and you budget right, you'll be set.

Q. So you don't think kids leave too early? If there's a doubt in your mind, then there's a doubt for a reason. But if you're guar-an-teed, a no-brainer (to go high), then it's the nature of the NBA draft that you have to (go). The draft is all about timing. If it's your time, then grab opportunity by the beard ... An NBA career is very perishable, it has a very short shelf life.

Q. What's the silliest thing you ever did? When I was younger, I hated getting haircuts, so I tried to give myself a haircut one day. I still have a mark because of it and my hair goes funny. I did, like, a crooked line and that line is still there today. I guess I used infected scissors or something.

Q. Complete this sentence: "When Bernie Bickerstaff tells me to go out and guard Shaquille O'Neal, I will..." (In a false voice straight out of a comic book) I will guard him! I will do my duty for the Bobcats ... and take his mighty blows! (laughs). And he'll dunk on my head and say, "Who's dunking on who, rookie?" as he runs down-court.

Q. What's the personal possession you couldn't do without? My backpack. I have so much stuff in there, some I never really use ... I just feel like if I need something, I can reach into my backpack and it will be in there.

Q. If you could switch places with another professional athlete, who would it be? Yao Ming. He's international, and I bet he's gone through some interesting stuff. He's so big and so big in his homeland (China) of a billion people. He has to be an icon there.

Q. The best advice you ever got is... To enjoy all that I'm going through right now. I heard that over and over again - throughout college and now. And you know what? I'm doing it.

Q. The person who abused me most on a basketball court is... No one as of yet. I know it's coming, though.

Q. What's it like practicing every day against someone the size and heft of a Jahidi White (6-foot-9, 290 pounds)? He takes a piece of your will every time you hit him ... The way he's built, he just doesn't have to move unless he wants to.

Q. It's Race Week in Charlotte. Would you let Dale Earnhardt, Jr. drive you around Lowe's Motor Speedway at 150 mph? I certainly would not let anybody drive me around at 150 mph ... You do your thing, man. No offense, but I have some bright days I'm looking forward to living through. I wouldn't want to risk it.

Q. Do professional athletes marvel at what other professional athletes do? I marvel at how baseball players can hit a ball. In a split-second they determine the location of a pitch, whether to go for the home run, whether to pull it. That is crazy ... I marvel at how a quarterback can see the whole field and how a wide receiver can run at full speed, focus on a target and hold on to the ball as they're getting hit. We do have awe, even though we're professionals, too. We do ask, "How'd he do that?"

Q. North Carolinians love college basketball, but their loyalty is divided among several teams. Describe what the Huskies mean to Connecticut. Everybody is absorbed. It's like the team and the state are as one. The hearts beat to the same rhythm. It's like their life force. As a player, you couldn't ask for anything better.

Q. What would hurt Connecticut more, losing the men or women Huskies? They're one and the same, man. If Connecticut doesn't get a championship, it gets grouchy ... The girls are racking up too many. Our one or two banners to their five or something. They're mocking it, laughing at it.

Q. None of the last six expansion teams have won more than 22 games the first season. Think you can top that? No question in my mind. I'm a positive thinker. Lose, lose, lose -- I'm not accepting that.

Q. When you got your contract, what's the first thing you bought for yourself that you always wanted? When I was young, I wanted a whole lot of stuff. But the closer I got to the NBA, the less I cared about material things. Now I care so little about material things, it's ridiculous ... Really, the only thing I did was bring my parents to the Olympics with me.

When I went back to college - to Connecticut to visit friends - they said, "Emeka, you really haven't changed at all." I had the same bum-ish habits, doing the same things.

I really haven't changed.

I'm curious to see the quotes you're talking about.

Did they teach reading in public school when you were growing up?  His quotes were on the first page......are you blind or did you just care to ignore them?  I'll post them again.

``My success is based on winning,'' he said. ``Losing is just not my mindset. My mentality is `We're going to win and we're going to make the playoffs.' ``

      Okafor is in a unique situation for a rookie.

      Because the Bobcats are starting from scratch, he's the immediate face of the franchise. The team crafted a cute little marketing strategy this fall, featuring Okafor in several election-themed commercials that all end in ``I'm Emeka Okafor, and I approved this ad.''

      Drive anywhere in Charlotte and you'll see election signs dotting front yards and proclaiming ``Okafor in '04.''

      But the cornerstone of the franchise said he feels no pressure to carry the team. Nor will he force himself into a leadership role, something he'd have to earn on an already established team.

And again I never said he was arrogant and expects to be the man.  In fact I said the exact opposite.  I said he sounds confident and that is a plus in my first post.   If you read my post you would know that.  Here is the exact quote from me on the first page from another post.

Franchise player = corner stone = leader. He said he won't force himself but the Bobcats want him to be the leader.

The hamster running the wheel inside your head must be very tired today.  Might as well call you Chubby Checker today with all the twisting you are doing.   This is the second time youve done that in this thread Ted.  I didnt even bad mouth him, say that he sucks, or anything like that.  I said I feel he will fall short of his expectations because they wont make the playoffs and the expectations of the Bobcats because they have set them so high for a rook.  Read first, comment second.

[Ted]

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team. Marketing strategy determines level of team play.

Hmm, this is a new argument. I'll have to spend four seconds considering it before I  :rofl:

Koast version:

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

Ted version:

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team.


Big difference buddy.  I did not say it was the only way to do it but they should be focusing in on the whole team and not riding one single guy who has not played a lick in the nba.

By the way, I think the word you're looking for is "instill," unless you're going to liquify the team, and then purify it by successive evaporation and condensation in order to help it play as a team.

[westkoast]

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team. Marketing strategy determines level of team play.

Hmm, this is a new argument. I'll have to spend four seconds considering it before I  :rofl:

Koast version:

You want to distill some team play into this team and yet they spend money focusing in on one guy.

Ted version:

The only way for Bobcats to "distill" team play in this team is to market whole team.


Big difference buddy.  I did not say it was the only way to do it but they should be focusing in on the whole team and not riding one single guy who has not played a lick in the nba.

By the way, I think the word you're looking for is "instill," unless you're going to liquify the team, and then purify it by successive evaporation and condensation in order to help it play as a team.

That's nice.  I made a typo......but lets stick to the debate here.  I know how you republican's like to go off in another direction but try to stay on track.

[Ted]

Who's a republican? Not me.

It's a usage and word choice error, not a typo. Typographic errors are a result of natural typing mistakes, usage errors are a result of something else. Kind of like using "loose" (like Joan Collins) when you mean to use "lose" (like what the Yankees just did).

But seriously, I apologize for twisting your words. You're right that I did. But I think you are twisting Okafor's words to suit your purposes. I don't see his words the same way as you do. When he says that his "mentality" is that they can make the playoffs, I don't hear that as a prediction. I see that as a guy trying to have a positive attitude toward what could be frustrating season.

The Jazz said the same thing all last season. "Our mentality is that we can and should make the playoffs." Kirilenko said it practically every time he was interviewed. Sloan was always saying it, too. Was that a prediction?

Also, your assertion that Franchise player = cornerstone = leader is problematic. Karl Malone was largely a silent entity for 19 years. He was never Utah's team leader, that was always John Stockton; but Karl was definitely the franchise player and cornerstone. Tim Duncan was the cornerstone and franchise player in 99, but Avery Johnson was the team leader. Your hypothesis fails several tests.

[westkoast]

Who's a republican? Not me.

It's a usage and word choice error, not a typo. Typographic errors are a result of natural typing mistakes, usage errors are a result of something else. Kind of like using "loose" (like Joan Collins) when you mean to use "lose" (like what the Yankees just did).

But seriously, I apologize for twisting your words. You're right that I did. But I think you are twisting Okafor's words to suit your purposes. I don't see his words the same way as you do. When he says that his "mentality" is that they can make the playoffs, I don't hear that as a prediction. I see that as a guy trying to have a positive attitude toward what could be frustrating season.

The Jazz said the same thing all last season. "Our mentality is that we can and should make the playoffs." Kirilenko said it practically every time he was interviewed. Sloan was always saying it, too. Was that a prediction?

Also, your assertion that Franchise player = cornerstone = leader is problematic. Karl Malone was largely a silent entity for 19 years. He was never Utah's team leader, that was always John Stockton; but Karl was definitely the franchise player and cornerstone. Tim Duncan was the cornerstone and franchise player in 99, but Avery Johnson was the team leader. Your hypothesis fails several tests.

How am I twisting his words around to suit my purpose?  I said he was confident and that is good but I believe he will fall short of his own expectations because they will not make the playoffs.  Not this year, not in 3 years.

Karl Malone was not a leader on that team?  John Stockton was not also a franchise player?  Ted are you ok?  Not your normal self.  Must be the  :alcohol: Avery was the floor general but D-rob was the true leader of the team.  Duncan was the franchise player with D-Rob but it wasnt his team at the time.  It was D-Rob's.  Duncan still is not that vocal but he still is the leader.  You can also lead by example.

You named two exceptions to the rule...I can name 20 franchise players who were and are the leaders of their team.  My "hypothesis" :rolleyes: actually holds up to the test of  NBA history.  Bill Russell, Cousy, Wilt, Jordan, Barkley, Magic, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Ewing,  Clyde,  the list goes on and on.

[Guest_Randy]

Actually, teams are doomed when the franchise player is NOT the leader of their team.

Here are some examples of that:
  Philly with AI -- look at what they accomplished when he DID lead them compared to when he is just their "franchise player."

  Toronto with VC -- This team is DYING for a leader and VC just doesn't step up to the plate.

  NY with Houston -- same as Toronto, the Knicks are paying Houston franchise player money but not getting the leadership in return -- HUGE mistake.
 
 
Teams who have franchise players who AREN'T the leader of their teams are doomed -- why should anyone else rise above their highest paid player?  There have been a FEW exceptions -- and SA was definately one of them.  DRob was their franchise player but Avery Johnson WAS their leader -- of course, DRob endorsed that role (what would have happened if DRob DIDN'T endorse the role).  However, currently, TD IS the leader of this team -- he just does it in a far different way than has ever been done before.  He does his leadership in a quiet way rather than a vocal way -- by example on the court (but he doesn't hesitate to speak if necessary -- he just NEVER does it in the press).  


I haven't meant to bring into question Okafor's attitude (as a bad attitude anyway) -- I just question his motivation.  We'll see.  I don't think he is going to be a Ben Wallace -- we've seen WAY too much hype for a TON of players in this league -- most NEVER reach up to their potential.  I think Howard is going to exceed his potential -- I think Okafor is going to be a pale imitation to Ben Wallace.

[jn]

Of course Ben Wallace was not Ben Wallace his first few years in the league.  

[Joe Vancil]

This Charlotte team is the worst team I've ever seen.  Outside of Brevin Knight, Steve Smith, Gerald Wallace, and Emeka Okafor, I'm not sure anyone is capable of playing anything more than left-over minutes at this level...and Smith is on his last legs.

This team COULD HAVE gone after a few quality players, and traded those players for picks and cash, but instead, they tried to go after...well...I'm not sure why they picked a bunch of the guys they picked.  According to them, this would allow them to be a bigger player in the free agent market, when some of the good young talent would be "shaken loose" from teams that had players with bad contracts.  Their free agent signings were Steve Smith and Brevin Knight - hardly what I'd call "young talent."

This is just an embarrassment.

As for an argument between dabods and westkoast on Charlotte's attendance - the Charlotte attendance *STARTED* out high, and gradually tailed off due to the city's hatred of Hornet owner Shinn, who, coincidentally, is now busy upsetting the good folks of the city of New Orleans.  The last year in Charlotte, the Hornets had a better road record than they did a home record, and secured (I believe) a number 4 seed with a 21-20 home record.

At the end, Charlotte's attendance was awful, and while the fans liked the players and the coach, they hated Shinn with such a passion that they stayed away.  The city tried to pressure the NBA into ousting Shinn and keeping the team in Charlotte, at which time, the city tried to show the people of Charlotte would come back and support the team, give them a new stadium, etc.

Charlotte's a great basketball city, but being a jerk while owning a team isn't tolerated.


 

[Ted]

I thought the whole idea of being called a Franchise Player is that you are THE franchise player, the best player on the team, the player on which the team builds its future. The way I see it, one franchise has one franchise player. Shaq for the Lakers, Michael for the Bulls, Kareem for the Lakers, etc.

Randy is absolutely right that a team is usually in trouble when its franchise player isn't its leader. But it's not always so. Kareem, at least from what I've read, was not much of a leader, but he definitely was the most dominant player on his teams. Oscar Robertson was the leader on the Bucks championship team, and Magic was the leader of the Lakers, even in his rookie year. It wasn't long before Magic took over and defined the role of franchise player/leader for the Lakers, but it was not always so. Was Wilt the leader of the Lakers? Or Jerry West? I don't know; I'm not old enough to know.

Karl Malone was NOT a leader on his team. He was more of a leader last year than he ever was in Utah. John Stockton was NOT the franchise player for the Utah Jazz. The team was built around Malone; but he was not the leader.

Westkoast, when you boil it down, we don't really disagree that much. If you want to say you convinced me, that's fine. I don't think Okafor is going shock the world this year either. I don't buy the fact that he expects to lead his team to the playoffs; I do believe he expects his team to compete as if they want to make the playoffs.

I'm not prepared to say he's going to fall short of people's reasonable expectations (people who expect the Bobcats to make the playoffs are not being reasonable). I've seen him play too much. I saw him live once. The guy is an athletic freak. He's 6'10" and can jump as well as the most athletic SGs and SFs. He's motivated and very aggressive on both sides of the court (and has been since his freshman year, when he started to get serious about b-ball), and from what I have seen, I feel he can be better than Ben Wallace. He's certainly farther along than Big Ben was when he entered the league.

[westkoast]

I'm not going for convincing you to see it my way.  In fact if we had a whole board of westkoast's it would be no fun :lol:  We do agree, except we see some of the comments in a different light.  Nothing wrong with that.  Im with you on Okafor.  I havent seen him play yet.  Just going off of what I read about it.  From what i've read and heard from others is that he has the potential to be a pretty good player.  I actually dont think he's arrogant.  He sounds confident to me and I like that in a player.  Even if he doesn't have any idea about NBA life.  Who would want to see a guy play who said words like 'Man im not really sure if I can do this, I guess its 50/50 we will see'.  Hes a solid pick to add to any team, but most important a team that is still waiting for the foundation to dry.  I just feel that alot of pressure is being put on to this guy by the Bobcat's, the media, and even himself.  The Bobcat's are really riding for him.   The reason I say that is because of the marketing they are doing in a city that just loves basketball.  The Hornets never had a problem filling seats and I am sure the city is just happy to have a team back to watch.  I think they should not focus in on one player and give the media more gas to put extra pressure on the guy.  That's all.  Other than that the jury is still out on the guy until at least the all-star break.

A franchise player to me, is a player that makes a whole boat load of different to the squad.   A player who cannot be replaced.   John Stockton to me was a franchise player with Karl Malone.  If John was not around or couldn't play the Jazz would not have been successful for all those years.  Same goes for Karl.  Shaq/Kobe and Magic/Kareem same deal.  You know the Jazz alot better than I do so when you say he wasn't a leader like that i'll treat it as the gospel.  I was under the impression his hustle, his physical training, him never missing games, and his kind heart towards his teammates was him leading in his own way.  I see Duncan as being one of those kinds of leaders himself.  Quiet and not rowdy but still leads by example and how he carries himself.

[Guest_spursx3]

Fall short of what? The all-star game? Well . . . duh!

I've been hearing that Primoz Brezec or Jahidi White is going to start at center for the Bobcats. And I've heard nothing that says the Bobcats are expecting Okafor to lead the team. Most informed sportswriters say Brevin Knight will be the team's leader, and Gerald Wallace will probably be the leading scorer. Okafor doesn't have to come in an be Kevin Garnett. He's going to do just fine by normal rookie standards.

sorry, this isnt part of the topic....just had to say i love the avatar ted has up of kerry preparing to catch a pass....LMAO!!  didnt notice it until just now....ok no you can go back to your debate...