Who is the back-up center for the Spurs?

[Guest_Randy]

Why did the Spurs cut Willis loose?  This guy was a key element in their rotation -- if only for 15-20 minutes a game.  I see a TON of forwards on this team -- none of whom can play back-up center.
 
      Robert Horry, Malik Rose and Tony Massenburg?  

These guys are decent back-ups at PF but not at the center position.  You will wear Horry out if you want him to play the back-up center position -- Rose is small enough as a PF but ridiculously small at C.  Massenburg?  He didn't see much playing time even with CWebb and Miller hurt -- a solid veteran but he isn't going to provide any presence in the middle.

So, IMO, the frontcourt depth of the Spurs got weaker -- on both ends of the court.  Willis was a better offensive and defensive player at the center position than any of those previously mentioned.  Horry is the only shot blocker of the 3 players and again, Horry is a guy that is small at PF, how do you expect him to play against centers?  

The Spurs live and die on TD -- we all know that -- just like any other team with a Superstar on it -- but I thought the Spurs had learned their lesson of playing TD heavy minutes throughout the regular season.  Rasho isn't a heavy minutes player -- you aren't going to see him playing 48 minutes a game.

So, two questions:
  1)  Who is going to play back-up at the center position?
  2)  How many minutes will TD have to play?

I think the Spurs made a mistake by letting Willis go -- he had another year in him and would have been a better quality back-up center than anyone else on the Spurs roster.

[Lurker]

First, the Spurs did NOT cut Willis loose.  Willis decided to play in Atlanta (where his family lives) for the same money that the Spurs were offering.  The Spurs did not make the decision Willis did.

Second, the whole question about the Spurs backup center must have come from someone who hasn't watched the Spurs for the past couple seasons.  Willis WAS NOT the Spurs backup center.  Willis played in 48 games averaging only 7 minutes per game.  Willis has not played significant minutes or games since 2000-01.  Willis was an insurance body to throw at Shaq in the playoffs...and a good locker room guy.

The Spurs backup center is some hack named Duncan.  The Spurs will manage to survive with him while Rasho is on the bench.

As far as Rose unable to play center then check out who played better defense against Shaq the past several years....Malik or Willis.  Any casual fan who has seen the Spurs in the playoffs...as well as regular season...the past few years would have known this.

Duncan will play the same number of minutes he has the past few seasons:  35-40 minutes per game.

[westkoast]

First, the Spurs did NOT cut Willis loose.  Willis decided to play in Atlanta (where his family lives) for the same money that the Spurs were offering.  The Spurs did not make the decision Willis did.

Second, the whole question about the Spurs backup center must have come from someone who hasn't watched the Spurs for the past couple seasons.  Willis WAS NOT the Spurs backup center.  Willis played in 48 games averaging only 7 minutes per game.  Willis has not played significant minutes or games since 2000-01.  Willis was an insurance body to throw at Shaq in the playoffs...and a good locker room guy.

The Spurs backup center is some hack named Duncan.  The Spurs will manage to survive with him while Rasho is on the bench.

As far as Rose unable to play center then check out who played better defense against Shaq the past several years....Malik or Willis.  Any casual fan who has seen the Spurs in the playoffs...as well as regular season...the past few years would have known this.

Duncan will play the same number of minutes he has the past few seasons:  35-40 minutes per game.

Players are going to get burnt out either way Lurker.  Horry is going to burn out quickly if they are expecting him to be a solid contributor for 25+ minutes a game.  With Duncan filling the 5 while Rasho is out then Horry/Rose will have the task of playing PF and backup C.  Rose is going to have to almost double his normal playing time over the past 3 seasons this year.  That's stretching a very important part of this team.

Are the Spurs going to make Duncan the perm backup for Rasho?  Duncan is the man but how much of a load is the team going to put on the poor guy in the middle?  He has to score, rebound, and float between two spots.  Duncan can hold his own but will the other 3 be able too?

[Lurker]

The Spurs front line rotation will be no different than last year or the year before.  We lost Willis (48 games, 7.8 minutes) and replaced him with Massenburg.  A wash in my eyes.  IMO Pop underused Rose last season.  I expect Malik to get minutes closer to the level he did in 2002-03 (24.5 vs 18.7 in 2003/04).

Malik played MORE games and MORE minutes per game LAST YEAR than Willis did.  Willis played a very small role in the Spurs rotation last season.  His loss doesn't really impact the Spurs rotation at all.

I think that you Laker fans are over analyzing this.

[jn]

Honestly what center is going to "wear out" Duncan on D?  

[Guest_Randy]

First, the Spurs did NOT cut Willis loose.  Willis decided to play in Atlanta (where his family lives) for the same money that the Spurs were offering.  The Spurs did not make the decision Willis did.

Second, the whole question about the Spurs backup center must have come from someone who hasn't watched the Spurs for the past couple seasons.  Willis WAS NOT the Spurs backup center.  Willis played in 48 games averaging only 7 minutes per game.  Willis has not played significant minutes or games since 2000-01.  Willis was an insurance body to throw at Shaq in the playoffs...and a good locker room guy.

The Spurs backup center is some hack named Duncan.  The Spurs will manage to survive with him while Rasho is on the bench.

As far as Rose unable to play center then check out who played better defense against Shaq the past several years....Malik or Willis.  Any casual fan who has seen the Spurs in the playoffs...as well as regular season...the past few years would have known this.

Duncan will play the same number of minutes he has the past few seasons:  35-40 minutes per game.

So, let me get this right, TD is going to play starting PF AND back-up C?  So the Spurs aren't planning on giving TD ANY rest?  Perhaps he can back up Bowen at SF as well?

As for Willis, there were a TON of games the guy didn't play in because the Spurs didn't NEED him to play -- there were also many games (against teams with legit big men) in which he played significant minutes (15 minutes) a game last year.  As for Rose playing better defense against Shaq, that MIGHT have been the case in years past but last year, we didn't see much of Rose in the Spurs line-up, did we?  (of course, I really don't know because I obviously didn't ever watch the Spurs play ball -- wait, I did see the Spurs get their butts handed to them by the Lakers!   :nod:   :rofl: )  Rose is a very good post one-on-one defender -- what he isn't is a good weakside defender, shotblocker or team defender.  Horry is better in those areas -- which is the reason that Horry was the choice over Rose by Pop.  However, IF you want to see Horry in the postseason -- don't use him up in the regular season -- the Lakers have made that mistake in the past.

[Lurker]

Randy...how did Willis play so many games of 15+ minutes but average only 7.8?

How did Rose who played in 67 (18+ minutes per) games have such a smaller impact than Willis who played in 48 games (7+ minutes)?

How well did the Spurs do last year with Duncan playing the backup center position?



Let's try some very, VERY simple statements.


Willis has been replaced by Massenburg.

Willis had a VERY small role on last year's team.

The Spurs last year had the 3rd best record in the league.

Duncan played BACKUP center last year.

There WILL BE NO CHANGE IN THE SPURS BACKUP CENTER POSITION THIS YEAR!


This discussion is almost as relevant as asking who will take Rick Fox's role on the Lakers this year....in simple terms it doesn't matter because Fox had no bearing on the Laker's season last year.

[Reality]

So, let me get this right, TD is going to play starting PF AND back-up C?  So the Spurs aren't planning on giving TD ANY rest?  Perhaps he can back up Bowen at SF as well?

As for Willis, there were a TON of games the guy didn't play in because the Spurs didn't NEED him to play -- there were also many games (against teams with legit big men) in which he played significant minutes (15 minutes) a game last year.

Randolph makes a good point.  Sure, Willis/Mass may be a wash.  However Spurs have still really not addressed backing up Duncan period and backup center.  If they are going back to Rose thats great but simply begets the question why was he benched last year so much after being a key part to the legit title in 2003.

The Rasho signing has been so so.  It did not solve the load Dunker takes.  Had the Spurs given Dunker another big man to take the scoring and D load off, it may have never even been close to the ".4 buttgreasing the Lakers escaped with."

Unless its know now by Spurs that Uncle Malone is coming over.  Since he became a Laker and lives in La La land perhaps that explains his need to have  dramaqueen attention by saying "he knows which team his is playing for, he just aint done gonna say which one."  Maybe the Spurs have addressed it and Malone is coming over in January.  :lol:  Duncan relief problem solved.

[Guest_Randy]

Randy...how did Willis play so many games of 15+ minutes but average only 7.8?

How did Rose who played in 67 (18+ minutes per) games have such a smaller impact than Willis who played in 48 games (7+ minutes)?

How well did the Spurs do last year with Duncan playing the backup center position?



Let's try some very, VERY simple statements.


Willis has been replaced by Massenburg.

Willis had a VERY small role on last year's team.

The Spurs last year had the 3rd best record in the league.

Duncan played BACKUP center last year.

There WILL BE NO CHANGE IN THE SPURS BACKUP CENTER POSITION THIS YEAR!


This discussion is almost as relevant as asking who will take Rick Fox's role on the Lakers this year....in simple terms it doesn't matter because Fox had no bearing on the Laker's season last year.

Okay, I'll try to make it simple so that you can understand -- sorry that I don't have any crayons.

Willis plays one game at ZERO minutes then plays another at 15 minutes -- how many minutes does that average out to be?  There were a TON of games that Willis didn't play because he simply wasn't needed (the Spurs had the game won from the beginning against smaller teams).  

If you think that Massenburg provides the same quality 15 minutes (when needed) as Willis did -- that's fine!  

And since you've already addressed the fact that Rose didn't have much bearing on last year's Spurs season, I really don't have to go into again, do I?  

[westkoast]

Honestly what center is going to "wear out" Duncan on D?

Other than Shaq, Ming, and a few of the more physical PF who will move to the 5 because of undersized teams....probably no one but that doesnt mean he wont have to be the enforcer when guards/sf penetrate.  Plus it would be his sole job to control the paint on that end (rebounds, penetration, weak side help for Rose when he plays better PFs).  Rose has never been a strong presence as far as being a consistant shot blocker and Horry's knees keep him from being able to do that consistantly also.  That's just added work to him being double teamed on the other end.  I believe Duncan can and will do it....but it is going to put major wear and tear on his body.  Come playoff time he may or may not have as much energy when they really need him.

Rose is going to have to double his playing time, so we will have to see how that works out for him.   Pop might as well have gave him last year off with as little as he was being used the 2nd half of the season.  I agree with Reality.  If he's is important and good enough to carry this load with Duncan why was he not used more last year in the playoffs and the end of the season?

Horry....not getting any younger.  Still effective but when he pulls out his defender to the outside to shoot the Spurs also loose a bigger body to rebound.  Which equals out to more work for Duncan.

[Lurker]

Okay, I'll try to make it simple so that you can understand -- sorry that I don't have any crayons.

Willis plays one game at ZERO minutes then plays another at 15 minutes -- how many minutes does that average out to be?  There were a TON of games that Willis didn't play because he simply wasn't needed (the Spurs had the game won from the beginning against smaller teams).  

If you think that Massenburg provides the same quality 15 minutes (when needed) as Willis did -- that's fine!  

And since you've already addressed the fact that Rose didn't have much bearing on last year's Spurs season, I really don't have to go into again, do I?

Let's try making it simpler Randy....if you play 0 minutes then it doesn't count as a game played.  DUH!

Willis played a TOTAL of 374 minutes last year in 48 games.

IF he played 20 games of 15 minutes then that is 300 minutes.  That means in the other 28 games in which Willis played he averaged 2.6 minutes.  Take it from someone who ACTUALLY watched the games.  Pop didn't insult Willis by playing 2 or 3 minutes a game in garbage time.

WILLIS WAS NOT A MAJOR PART OF THE SPURS ROTATION.

Duncan WITHOUT playing any more minutes is the backup center.  He has been ever since the 1999-2000 season after Will Perdue left.  Look over the Spurs rosters for the past 5-6 seasons and tell me who the backup center has been if not Duncan.

BTW if a player who plays 68 games averaging 18+ minutes has no impact then why do you think a player who played 48 games averaging 7.8 minutes had such a big impact?  Try something new....apply logic to this question.

[Guest_Randy]

So, let me get this right, TD is going to play starting PF AND back-up C?  So the Spurs aren't planning on giving TD ANY rest?  Perhaps he can back up Bowen at SF as well?

As for Willis, there were a TON of games the guy didn't play in because the Spurs didn't NEED him to play -- there were also many games (against teams with legit big men) in which he played significant minutes (15 minutes) a game last year.

Randolph makes a good point.  Sure, Willis/Mass may be a wash.  However Spurs have still really not addressed backing up Duncan period and backup center.  If they are going back to Rose thats great but simply begets the question why was he benched last year so much after being a key part to the legit title in 2003.

The Rasho signing has been so so.  It did not solve the load Dunker takes.  Had the Spurs given Dunker another big man to take the scoring and D load off, it may have never even been close to the ".4 buttgreasing the Lakers escaped with."

Unless its know now by Spurs that Uncle Malone is coming over.  Since he became a Laker and lives in La La land perhaps that explains his need to have  dramaqueen attention by saying "he knows which team his is playing for, he just aint done gonna say which one."  Maybe the Spurs have addressed it and Malone is coming over in January.  :lol:  Duncan relief problem solved.

Reality,

You continue to show your "hatin" stripes -- I don't have a problem with you mentioning Fish's .4 shot -- but why don't you mention the same "miracle" shot but TD just moments before?  In fact, I would say that TD's shot was an even BIGGER miracle since he was off-balance and shooting WAY beyond his comfort zone.  It's kind of funny that you only mention ONE of the miracle shots (the one that suits your story best).

As for Malone, he has already stated quite clearly that he isn't going to play for anyone but the Lakers.  He doesn't want to move his family again and I think he just struggles to admit to himself that it's "over."  I don't see him playing for SA (or LA either for that matter), the guy is a HUGE family guy and therefore won't go to SA without him and he has stated that he won't move his family again.  

[Lurker]

Rose played 1,256 minutes....Willis played 374.  Rose had no impact.  Willis was our key backup.  With that type of logic no wonder Laker fans think that they will make the playoffs this year.

In the playoffs...Rose played 7 games and 58 minutes.  Willis played 7 games and 25 minutes.  We sure are going to miss Willis' contributions to our team's success.  Hell, Charlie Ward played more minutes than Willis during the regular season.  Jason Hart who ended up as 3rd string pg played more minutes than Willis in the playoffs.

Of the Spurs top 8 players in terms of minutes played last year they lost 1 player...Hedo Turkoglu.  And they replaced him with Brent Barry.  The number 8 spot in minutes played was Rose with 1,256; the ninth player was Jason Hart with 660 minutes.  Hart was the only other top 10 player from last year that the Spurs lost.

WILLIS PLAYED 374 MINUTES LAST YEAR.  ALL THE SPURS HAVE TO REPLACE IS THAT 374 MINUTES.  NOT 15-20 MINUTES PER GAME....JUST 374 MINUTES OVER THE ENTIRE SEASON.

Maybe some Laker stats will help clear this up:
Minutes played in 2003/04:
Bryon Russell  994
Rick Fox          847
Luke Walton    730
Brian Cook      442

All of these "KEY" players for tyhe Lakers last year played MORE minutes than Kevin Willis.  Again why is Willis so important to the Spurs?
 

[westkoast]

Lurker buddy...take a deep breathe.  Relax.  No reason for you to take the tone you have in your posts.  We are just addressing a spot in the Spurs lineup that needs to be filled.   That's it.  We are talking basketball.  Not attacking the Spurs. Just like everyone else on here addressed for 4 seasons that the Lakers needed to find a back up for Shaq.  The Lakers still did fine and so will the Spurs.  However that extra body to give both the big men a rest would benefit the stars and the team.  Duncan is a very hard worker and does deserve to get rest.  They need him 110% in the playoffs.

Also Lurker...Luke Walton actually was a more important player in the playoffs and regular season last year.  He got very little minutes but he did play well for a rook in the playoffs.  You couldnt just replace his minutes with another body because he was a great passer.  Much like you cant just replace Willis with anyone to fill those minutes because of his hustle and his vet mentality.  Brian Cook became more important by default because of injuries to the real starting PF and his back up (ho grant) .  Still Rick Fox, Walton, and Russell pretty much occupy the same positions.  Only time it was different is because PJ got desperate with the line ups. The SF spot wasnt a very important position on the team.  I believe the PF and Center spots have always been the most  important part of the Spurs team since they snatched D-rob.

You can go by minutes all you want but to say Willis didn't help last year in the playoffs and the year before that when they won the title is just not true.  Pretty much you are lying thru your teeth if you dont think those 300+ minutes last year and the 300+ minutes the year before that were not important at all.  Also take into mind those 4 seasons of the 6 prior to this year Duncan was backing up DAVID ROBINSON.  Someone who did an excellent job of producing and did play heavy minutes.  He was also a very strong and much more intimidating post defender.  Rasho is more of a liability, not intimidating, not as strong, and more prone to injury than D-rob was.  Big difference.

[Reality]

As for Malone, he has already stated quite clearly that he isn't going to play for anyone but the Lakers.

Where can i find this Malone quote?

Randy,  I found it in a reliable non drama queen newspaper, the San Antonio Express-News of Oct 2nd.  

"Malone told Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss he would not play for any team but the Lakers this season - if he plays at all. Malone's agent, Dwight Manley, informed the Spurs of the decision in a phone call Friday afternoon."

However an Oct 16th article says Shaq still contacts Malone about joining the Heat.

Since now the Maildrama admits he will only wear purple and gold, we can call his his "I'll only play for a title" what it is:  :bs:
Also his Sept 9th announcent that he knows which team he will play for, but that he just isnt saying.  Now he himself states that from Sept 9th to Oct 2nd he knew it was to remain in comfort fitting [span style=\'color:purple\']purple and golden lingerie[/span]? But chose not to tell the teams pursuing him.  What a puss.  Thanks for wasting the Spurs (who had told him they were keeping a roster spot open) Wolves, Heat and others time.  Zero class.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=1595289

Don't even come in with the ever phony oft used athlete "family" card.  As they near retirement and/or can no longer physically compete all of a sudden "Family" is why.  Like his family was not important until now?  Yes I know his mother died, I'm not being disrespectful of her passing.