Have Malone and Paytons priorities changed

[Reality]

They join the Flamers at minimal because it was not about money but all about the title.

.4 miracles, 30 FTAs in the 4th qtr, Pops brain and the dream stayed alive until....Detroit.

Ok so now what has changed?  Pouton said he wanted out if Shaq left.  Ends up staying with the Lakers after Shaq bails.  :crazy:

Malone says he is in daily contact with the Spurs and is very serious about playing with the NBAs best player(s) for a title.
But now the accurate non twisting Lurker says Malone is waiting to see if he can get a higher dollar offer from other teams.  

Its all about the title??

[Guest_Randy]

Do you want a REAL answer or do you just want to dump more on the Lakers (and GP/Malone)?

GP ALWAYS talks big but the fact is that he wasn't going to make any more money out there than he had on his contract in LA given his play in the last year.  Granted, the triangle made him look REALLY bad as it took away all his weaknesses -- he may also feel that he NEEDS to prove himself in LA but GM's want to see better play from GP before they ink him to as much money as LA is going to pay him this year.  And for good reason, IMO.

As for Malone, Lurker wants to make it all about money but I don't think that Karl is a very good fit in SA unless the Spurs move TD to the PF position -- something that I think is STILL a mistake!  And they would also have to guarantee Malone a starting position -- Rasho is making a LOT of money to sit on the bench, IMO and I'm not sure that Pop would start Malone.  I think that is as big a factor as any contract.  Anyone who watched Malone play this year knows that he played INCREDIBLY well -- and most of that was while injured.  At this point, Malone has given up money to play for a title -- it didn't get him anything.  And there AREN'T any guarantees, are there?  What happens if TD goes down?  The Spurs don't win anything and Malone gave up another year for nothing, huh?  I don't think playing for $1.1 mill is a big deal but when you're used to playing for $15+ mill a year, it's a pretty big drop!  The Lakers payed Malone more than that last year.  When you are willing to take a 75% cut in pay, I think you can question Malone's desires -- until then it's pretty easy to say that Malone is "just in this for the money."  Malone realizes that there aren't any guarantees and he definately needs to weigh playing for less money than most players in the NBA today -- for good reason.

[Reality]

Do you want a REAL answer or do you just want to dump more on the Lakers (and GP/Malone)?

GP ALWAYS talks big but the fact is that he wasn't going to make any more money out there than he had on his contract in LA given his play in the last year.  Granted, the triangle made him look REALLY bad as it took away all his weaknesses -- he may also feel that he NEEDS to prove himself in LA but GM's want to see better play from GP before they ink him to as much money as LA is going to pay him this year.  And for good reason, IMO.

As for Malone, Lurker wants to make it all about money but I don't think that Karl is a very good fit in SA unless the Spurs move TD to the PF position -- something that I think is STILL a mistake!  And they would also have to guarantee Malone a starting position -- Rasho is making a LOT of money to sit on the bench, IMO and I'm not sure that Pop would start Malone.  I think that is as big a factor as any contract.  Anyone who watched Malone play this year knows that he played INCREDIBLY well -- and most of that was while injured.  At this point, Malone has given up money to play for a title -- it didn't get him anything.  And there AREN'T any guarantees, are there?  What happens if TD goes down?  The Spurs don't win anything and Malone gave up another year for nothing, huh?  I don't think playing for $1.1 mill is a big deal but when you're used to playing for $15+ mill a year, it's a pretty big drop!  The Lakers payed Malone more than that last year.  When you are willing to take a 75% cut in pay, I think you can question Malone's desires -- until then it's pretty easy to say that Malone is "just in this for the money."  Malone realizes that there aren't any guarantees and he definately needs to weigh playing for less money than most players in the NBA today -- for good reason.

Well what i got was a Randy answer.

I asked if GP was going to play for a title.  Your response has nary a word about title but only that "the fact is that he wasn't going to make any more money out there than he had on his contract in LA given his play in the last year."  Not one word about title.

Malone will take a pay cut for a title attempt in 2003-4 but not as much of a cut in the upcoming 2004-5, even if its his best chance (Spurs)?  Ok got ya.
So his priorities have changed to you.

To me if the exact same amount of money he recieved from the Lakers would get him a title in SAntone, he should absolutely take the title.  I'll bet he would be perfectly happy.  And healthy.  Not miss the extra 5 mil or whatever he could get with some .500 team like the Lakers.

Two great ideas.  Karl playing a lot of minutes -but safely- without an injury and hoisting a title at the end of it all.  Now that is happy.

You and koast can come in now and do The Twist.  Only sour Krishnas would not like the above happy scene.

[Guest_Randy]

Do you want a REAL answer or do you just want to dump more on the Lakers (and GP/Malone)?

GP ALWAYS talks big but the fact is that he wasn't going to make any more money out there than he had on his contract in LA given his play in the last year.  Granted, the triangle made him look REALLY bad as it took away all his weaknesses -- he may also feel that he NEEDS to prove himself in LA but GM's want to see better play from GP before they ink him to as much money as LA is going to pay him this year.  And for good reason, IMO.

As for Malone, Lurker wants to make it all about money but I don't think that Karl is a very good fit in SA unless the Spurs move TD to the PF position -- something that I think is STILL a mistake!  And they would also have to guarantee Malone a starting position -- Rasho is making a LOT of money to sit on the bench, IMO and I'm not sure that Pop would start Malone.  I think that is as big a factor as any contract.  Anyone who watched Malone play this year knows that he played INCREDIBLY well -- and most of that was while injured.  At this point, Malone has given up money to play for a title -- it didn't get him anything.  And there AREN'T any guarantees, are there?  What happens if TD goes down?  The Spurs don't win anything and Malone gave up another year for nothing, huh?  I don't think playing for $1.1 mill is a big deal but when you're used to playing for $15+ mill a year, it's a pretty big drop!  The Lakers payed Malone more than that last year.  When you are willing to take a 75% cut in pay, I think you can question Malone's desires -- until then it's pretty easy to say that Malone is "just in this for the money."  Malone realizes that there aren't any guarantees and he definately needs to weigh playing for less money than most players in the NBA today -- for good reason.

Well what i got was a Randy answer.

I asked if GP was going to play for a title.  Your response has nary a word about title but only that "the fact is that he wasn't going to make any more money out there than he had on his contract in LA given his play in the last year."  Not one word about title.

Malone will take a pay cut for a title attempt in 2003-4 but not as much of a cut in the upcoming 2004-5, even if its his best chance (Spurs)?  Ok got ya.
So his priorities have changed to you.

To me if the exact same amount of money he recieved from the Lakers would get him a title in SAntone, he should absolutely take the title.  I'll bet he would be perfectly happy.  And healthy.  Not miss the extra 5 mil or whatever he could get with some .500 team like the Lakers.

Two great ideas.  Karl playing a lot of minutes -but safely- without an injury and hoisting a title at the end of it all.  Now that is happy.

You and koast can come in now and do The Twist.  Only sour Krishnas would not like the above happy scene.

Umm, who (besides you) is asking whether or not GP would take a cut in pay to play for a title?  Do you know ANY team right now clammering for GP?  I already made it clear that GP didn't stay in LA for a title shot -- he stayed because it was a guaranteed paycheck and nobody wants him at this point after his play last season.

Malone is a different situation -- you have to promise a COUPLE of things to get Malone:
  1)  A title shot
  2)  A starting PF position (LA offered him that -- is SA offering it to him now?)
  3)  Quality minutes (25 minutes a game doesn't cut this one)

I believe that Karl WILL take less money IF the Spurs can meet these conditions.  However, Malone has already experienced what can happen by sacrificing money for what he thought was a "guaranteed" championship -- we all know what happens to the Spurs chances should TD go down during the playoffs -- Malone knows that as well.

Now that I've addressed YOUR point -- how about addressing mine?
  1)  Are you REALLY concerned about Malone hoisting a championship trophy or ONLY if he signs with the Spurs?
  2)  Are YOU willing to take a 75% paycut for a "good cause?"  

You make it ALL about a championship with Malone -- but the three conditions I mentioned above ALL had to be met by ANY organization pursuing Malone -- it just happened that the Lakers could meet that given that we were incredibly weak at the PF position -- esp. more with the loss of Horry.  Malone IS willing to take less for a title -- but he wants to PLAY in order to win it -- not just ride in on someone's coattails.

[Reality]

Malone is a different situation -- you have to promise a COUPLE of things to get Malone:
  1)  A title shot
  2)  A starting PF position (LA offered him that -- is SA offering it to him now?)
  3)  Quality minutes (25 minutes a game doesn't cut this one)

I believe that Karl WILL take less money IF the Spurs can meet these conditions.  However, Malone has already experienced what can happen by sacrificing money for what he thought was a "guaranteed" championship -- we all know what happens to the Spurs chances should TD go down during the playoffs -- Malone knows that as well.

Now that I've addressed YOUR point -- how about addressing mine?
  1)  Are you REALLY concerned about Malone hoisting a championship trophy or ONLY if he signs with the Spurs?
  2)  Are YOU willing to take a 75% paycut for a "good cause?"  

You make it ALL about a championship with Malone -- but the three conditions I mentioned above ALL had to be met by ANY organization pursuing Malone -- it just happened that the Lakers could meet that given that we were incredibly weak at the PF position -- esp. more with the loss of Horry.  Malone IS willing to take less for a title -- but he wants to PLAY in order to win it -- not just ride in on someone's coattails.

If Payton offered to go to a team at minimum, yes, i think teams with title chances would take him.  He hasn't offered because its not about a title anymore.  If it is he could and would be all over the media with it.  He could have his agent offering the Heat, Pistons, Pacers, Rockets, Spurs, Wolves et all his services at absolute minimum.  IF it was about a title pursuit.

Malone:  

1)  A title shot if he joins the Spurs?  Yes.  Ask WoW if you think thats too much of a Realistic shot.

2)  Yes he can start forward for the Spurs.  If you want to call Nestro or TD a PF or Karl a PF do it.  They can be on the floor at the same time.  Duncan may have to continue being the NBAs best center.  Point is Malone will be on the floor as a forward.  Malone can also sit out an occasional game or play a couple minutes an occasional game to balance out the majority of games he plays 25-45 minutes.

3)  25-35 minutes AVERAGE a game will "cut it" if it means keeping him healthy.
Your Laker medical staff told him what about his initially injured knee?  He played on it again how soon?  Per their advice.  Reinjured it and sat out how many games?  Yet you are going to squak to me about the Spurs (or other teams) wanting to keep him under a 40 minute average for the entire reg season.  

I want to see Karl help pursuit and get a ring with the Spurs.  I couldn't care less if he fails to get one with another team.  If on any team he runs the year without a cheapshot I'll be most pleased.
 

[Guest_Randy]

Malone is a different situation -- you have to promise a COUPLE of things to get Malone:
  1)  A title shot
  2)  A starting PF position (LA offered him that -- is SA offering it to him now?)
  3)  Quality minutes (25 minutes a game doesn't cut this one)

I believe that Karl WILL take less money IF the Spurs can meet these conditions.  However, Malone has already experienced what can happen by sacrificing money for what he thought was a "guaranteed" championship -- we all know what happens to the Spurs chances should TD go down during the playoffs -- Malone knows that as well.

Now that I've addressed YOUR point -- how about addressing mine?
  1)  Are you REALLY concerned about Malone hoisting a championship trophy or ONLY if he signs with the Spurs?
  2)  Are YOU willing to take a 75% paycut for a "good cause?" 

You make it ALL about a championship with Malone -- but the three conditions I mentioned above ALL had to be met by ANY organization pursuing Malone -- it just happened that the Lakers could meet that given that we were incredibly weak at the PF position -- esp. more with the loss of Horry.  Malone IS willing to take less for a title -- but he wants to PLAY in order to win it -- not just ride in on someone's coattails.

If Payton offered to go to a team at minimum, yes, i think teams with title chances would take him.  He hasn't offered because its not about a title anymore.  If it is he could and would be all over the media with it.  He could have his agent offering the Heat, Pistons, Pacers, Rockets, Spurs, Wolves et all his services at absolute minimum.  IF it was about a title pursuit.

Malone:  

1)  A title shot if he joins the Spurs?  Yes.  Ask WoW if you think thats too much of a Realistic shot.

2)  Yes he can start forward for the Spurs.  If you want to call Nestro or TD a PF or Karl a PF do it.  They can be on the floor at the same time.  Duncan may have to continue being the NBAs best center.  Point is Malone will be on the floor as a forward.  Malone can also sit out an occasional game or play a couple minutes an occasional game to balance out the majority of games he plays 25-45 minutes.

3)  25-35 minutes AVERAGE a game will "cut it" if it means keeping him healthy.
Your Laker medical staff told him what about his initially injured knee?  He played on it again how soon?  Per their advice.  Reinjured it and sat out how many games?  Yet you are going to squak to me about the Spurs (or other teams) wanting to keep him under a 40 minute average for the entire reg season.  

I want to see Karl help pursuit and get a ring with the Spurs.  I couldn't care less if he fails to get one with another team.  If on any team he runs the year without a cheapshot I'll be most pleased.

First, let me say thanks for actually talking about the points rather than the slams, etc.

Second, I think Malone would be okay playing 35 minutes a game -- but NOT 25 minutes a game.  That's only half of the game and he isn't going to do that.

Also, I'm not sure that I see Pop giving Malone a starting job -- has he been guaranteed that?  I hadn't heard if that was the case -- it is going to be a MUST in order to get him to sign.

I want to see Karl help pursuit and get a ring with the Spurs. I couldn't care less if he fails to get one with another team. If on any team he runs the year without a cheapshot I'll be most pleased.

See, these are the things that KILL me, Reality.  You say all these things about Karl but once he puts on the Spurs jersey it all changes!  The ONLY thing that changed about Karl as a Laker is that I respected his leadership with Lakers -- I've always admired his work ethic (who wouldn't) but have ALWAYS hated him as a player for his cheapshots, etc.  That HASN'T changed when he was a Laker and it won't change just because he put on a certain jersey.  

[Reality]

Also, I'm not sure that I see Pop giving Malone a starting job -- has he been guaranteed that?  I hadn't heard if that was the case -- it is going to be a MUST in order to get him to sign.

I want to see Karl help pursuit and get a ring with the Spurs. I couldn't care less if he fails to get one with another team. If on any team he runs the year without a cheapshot I'll be most pleased.

See, these are the things that KILL me, Reality.  You say all these things about Karl but once he puts on the Spurs jersey it all changes!  The ONLY thing that changed about Karl as a Laker is that I respected his leadership with Lakers -- I've always admired his work ethic (who wouldn't) but have ALWAYS hated him as a player for his cheapshots, etc.  That HASN'T changed when he was a Laker and it won't change just because he put on a certain jersey.

Pop would be a fool to not offer him a starting job.
Who would Pop expect him to sit behind?  Nestro?

Malone would probably be the one to speak up and say "Your Offense sucks Pop" unlike TD and the rest of the Spurs have (apparantly) been unwilling to do.

My point on Malone titling was in response to your wanting to see Karl get a ring.
I couldn't give a rats if he gets a ring for the purpose of fullfilling his career.

How about the 18 year janitor for the Jazz and the Lakers?  Is Karl going to honor them with a piece of his 100 (200+?) million dollar worth.  That is my point.
Maybe in private he has tipped some money their way, as when Shaq bought the janitor a new truck.  However remember the widows mite.  These multi multi millionare spoiled babies, Im sick of hearing of how tough they have it and how *unfullfilled* they will be without this or that.  Shaq is "dissed" because Buss offered him 49 million for a two year extension.  49 mil!!  Look i have no problem with players getting their fair piece of the pie but even if Buss was *ripping Shaq off*, can you imagine how many lives you could touch for the better with an extra $49 mil?

Now if Malone plays team ball and helps the Spurs get a ring, fine.  Great.  Superb.  He had the Lakers on the right track the 1st 25 games last year.  

You're incorrect about the Jersey change.  I posted re Karl the Spur the 1st cheapshot he delivers I want a 20 game suspension.  2nd one he is off the team.  Whether it hurts title chances or not.