Go Detroit Tigers

[jemagee]

I have no rooting interest whatsoever with either of these teams, but it would benefit my sanity GREATLY and allow me to get sleep tonight if the Tigers would beat the twins today...

[jn]

Just out of curiosity, why?  Leyland's a fine manager and the City of Detroit certainly needs SOMETHING good to happen but perhaps there's another reason? 

[jemagee]

Just out of curiosity, why?  Leyland's a fine manager and the City of Detroit certainly needs SOMETHING good to happen but perhaps there's another reason? 

I'm doing an 'internship' for a guy who writes for one of the major sports web sites...parsing and producing various PitchFX data for various pitchers...it takes about 20-30 minutes per pitcher and i have a list of 10 Twins pitchers I got sunday but have not yet had a chance to get to - if the twins win i have a long night after work - if they lose not so much.

Like I said - my sanity   I have very little rooting interest for either team (though after 4 years in wisconsin i am predisposed to root against minnesota in general)

Personally I think Jim Leyland is one of the 3 most overr rated managers of our era (torre and Larussa being the other two with dusty 'i kill pitchers' baker a strong 4th)

[ziggy]

As a Tiger fan since the days of Willie Horton, Mickey Lolich, et al, I am in total agreement.  Go Tigers!!

As far as Leyland's managing ability he is what he is; generally not one to try and make managing something it isn't (ala Mr. LaRussa).  He is a simple guy who gets the basic simplicity of the game, one who goes with his gut, even if there is evidence that his gut is wrong, but one who is respected and trusted by his players, and one who "gets" that success in baseball is about approach and not some amalgam of tactical strategies.

[jemagee]

one who goes with his gut, even if there is evidence that his gut is wrong

And yet when his gut is wrong will he change his approach?

Charlie Manuel took forever with Brad Lidge because of his gut / loyalty / player trust  - when the best thing to do was pull brad lidge from the closer role much earlier.

[jn]

I think most baseball managers torture their fans with certain gut/loyalty decisions.  Ron Gardenhire is a very good manager but he doesn't get credit from a lot of Twins fans because of his loyalty to Nick Punto.

[jemagee]

I think most baseball managers torture their fans with certain gut/loyalty decisions.  Ron Gardenhire is a very good manager but he doesn't get credit from a lot of Twins fans because of his loyalty to Nick Punto.

Does he have other options than Nick Punto?

The 'loyalty' issues with Charlie Manue also extend to the wrong guy hitting lead off

[jn]

He HAD another option in the person of Jason Bartlett, plus a couple other guys.  The other players weren't great but they have frequently sat on the bench with averages 30 or 40 points higher than Punto, plus more power.

[jemagee]

He HAD another option in the person of Jason Bartlett, plus a couple other guys.  The other players weren't great but they have frequently sat on the bench with averages 30 or 40 points higher than Punto, plus more power.

I hear a lot of criticism of mike scosia for not playing some guy whose name i can't remember but is supposed to be a stud but the ANgels can't find a place to put.

Managers seem to have guys they like...whetherh they should play or not   Hopefully it doesn't cost the team.

I gotta think though if the tigers lose today that leyland isn't long for the job (uness of course they just blame cabreara)

[ziggy]

one who goes with his gut, even if there is evidence that his gut is wrong

And yet when his gut is wrong will he change his approach?

Charlie Manuel took forever with Brad Lidge because of his gut / loyalty / player trust  - when the best thing to do was pull brad lidge from the closer role much earlier.

My point was not to say that Leyland was a great manager, who had all the answers.  Not by a long shot.  I think Leyland is a simple, old school type, who has good instincts, and as a result makes a lot of good decisions, but he is also one of those who will go with his gut when there is a lot of convincing evidence saying his gut is wrong.  Regardless, he goes with his gut, and some times it blows up on him.  This is from a tactical perspective.

I believe Leyland's greatest value lies in areas other than tactics, though he is probably a little better than average tactically.  He does a very good job of running a club, and I think he "gets" some things that others don't.

[jemagee]

I believe that instincts have a place - my problem is that no one seems to understand that there can be a middle ground - a combinatoin of old school and new school a combination of larry bowa and charlie manuel - you have to be one or theother for some reason.

Then again, I think Kevin Towers got jobbed in San Diego and Billy Beane should give Sandy Alderson more credit.

Managers in general are over praised and over criticized as it is though