Author Topic: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...  (Read 7308 times)

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2009, 05:58:03 PM »
Is Andre Miller even starting in Portland?  I don't think that'll help Portland for a variety of reasons.

I'm not sure Louis Williams qualifies as the best point guard on the sixers any more...I don't think he does...just more experienced than the best point guard right now.  I'd prefer that Jrue play his way up and Louis ends up back on the bench taking any minutes the sixers currently think Willie Green should get.

Lou as starting point guard is but one reason that I don't expect better than 500 this season - he's not a point...and he's not much of a passer - he does like to shoot though
Good call on that second point, I agree that Jrue should eventually end up as the starting PG, but he's definitely not ready yet.  However, Lou is a great passer (he's a better passer than Miller, but Iggy is still clearly the best passer on the team).  The problem is his decision making, and seemingly never knowing where the ball should go.  I'm hoping that the Princeton offense and Eddie Jordan helps him figure this part out.  It's not out of the question, and it's why I say he can't be judged by his work with the second team in past years.

jemagee

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2009, 06:00:26 PM »
I don't know that Lou is a great passer or not (How does one even quantify that?) - but my feeling is that Lou isn't an 'instinctual' passing...it's not natural for Lou to pass the ball...even in 'passing' situations as much as it is for him to try and create shots...not talking about the quality of the pass - just knowing when you should pass...Lou always struck me as passing as a last resort more than anything else, but that's just a personal perception, no idea how one would even distinguish that.

That SI column has some commentary about running the Princeton offense, how you don't need a 'point guard' per se and how Lou doesn't even touch the ball much we'll see...

Offline rickortreat

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2009, 09:52:30 AM »
I don't know that Lou is a great passer or not (How does one even quantify that?) - but my feeling is that Lou isn't an 'instinctual' passing...it's not natural for Lou to pass the ball...even in 'passing' situations as much as it is for him to try and create shots...not talking about the quality of the pass - just knowing when you should pass...Lou always struck me as passing as a last resort more than anything else, but that's just a personal perception, no idea how one would even distinguish that.

That SI column has some commentary about running the Princeton offense, how you don't need a 'point guard' per se and how Lou doesn't even touch the ball much we'll see...



I don't know what a natural passer means.  I think being  good point guard isn't something that's instinctual, but rather a learned behavior that develops.  I blame the coaching and the players in front of Louis on the depth chart for this perception that he "can't play the point".  Without a structured offense, or set plays so that each player knows where the other is going to be, as least at the start, that you can't develop a point guard.  Face it, it is easier (provided you have the skill) to take your man off the dribble to score yourself, rather than set up a team-mate.  Which is what Iverson has always done, which is why no one considers him a point!

Eddie Jordan is bringing a new system to the Sixers, a planned offense with variations and options built in, so that all the players know where they're supposed to be and where they're supposed to go as the play unfolds. It seems pretty obvious to have an offense like that, but this is something quite new for the Sixers! Holding players accountable for where they go on the floor during an offensive set is a completely new concept for these guys! Louis deserves some time to learn this before he's expected to be fluent in it.

Wiliams never had the opportunity to learn to be a passer. Outside of a few lobs to Iguodala or Young the Sixers were never big on assists. Miller was never a good passing point guard, that isn't his game either. Cheeks played with lots of great individual players who knew how to create space for themselves to operate, you can't freelance that way with young players who don't know the game.

Once Williams realizes how being a facilitator will enable the Sixers to get easy baskets in a half-court set, we'll forget about all this nonsense about being a good passer. He will know, because he will be taught, where to go on the floor, where to look, and who to pass to based on what the opposing teams defense does. This is what the Princeton offense is all about: generating good shot opportunities.  Once he understands how to help his team-mates by passing in a non-break situation, he'll become an adequate point guard. He has a lot to learn, but now he has the opportunity. As the coach and the other players are now (finally!) all on board. Even Sam Dalembert will get touches in productive situations! 

If the Sixers can score off of set-plays against another team's set defense, they will have made a significant step forward as a basketball team. They are already quicker than most of the teams they face, and a better defensive team (especially now that Miller isn't there playing matador defense on the other team's point!) if they start playing smarter on offense it will put enormous pressure on the other team to perform, in order to keep pace. There are only a handful of teams in the NBA that can stay with them, just the few who execute their offense successfully. In the East there are only a handful of teams that you can say that about.

If that occurs they'll get plenty of respect!

jemagee

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2009, 09:56:58 AM »
I would assume that Louis Williams has played basketball for a large portion of his life.  He's had a chance to 'learn' how to pass, how to involve his teammates more naturally, how to see open team mates (Deron Williams didn't learn how to do it when he got to the NBA and neither did Steve Nash or Jason Kidd).

I believe court vision can be refined, but that it's part of who you are...you can learn how to use it but you either have it or not, Andre Iguodala has it, often he just tries to make a showy pass when the simple one would do...I've seen very littled in his years in the league that Louis Williams has any sort of natural court vision.

The excuses for Sam Dalembert used to be that he 'picked the game up late', he needed time to learn, but the things he shold have known how to do were the basics of basketball...if the excuses for Louis Williams are going to be that 'he never learned how to pass', sorry but it sounds like the same excuses Sam defenders made when people tried to justify him as a 'future all star'.

Louis Williams is a gunner, a shooter, he's a poor mans Allen iverson...Iverson used to get 'assists' as well but he wasn't really a point guard and no on mistook him for one...I don't believe anyone will mistake Louis Williams for a point guard any time soon either.

Then again, if you believe Eddie Jordan, he doesn't want a point guard who 'passes too much' - so maybe that works to Lou's advantage.


Offline rickortreat

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2009, 10:14:30 AM »
Lou came out of high school into the NBA, he was drafted on his potential, not as a finished product. Until this season, he's been a back-up in an unstructured environment with a team that didn't run set plays, but just tried to get an open shot.

You're right that he should have a better court awareness, but he didn't develop it in high-school, and he wasn't coached properly as a point until now. In fact,he learned from those ahead of him Iverson and Miller, the last two that you'd want as role models for a good point guard!

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not going to dispute that he hasn't run he point properly yet. But I'd also say let's see how he does over the first few months of the season, now that he has specific responsibilities. This is a huge change for the Sixers as a whole and for Lou particularly. Well find out rather quickly if he has the ability or not.

The thing is, it is Lou's responsibility now and he knows that his ability to play this role will determine his future as an NBA player. If he's going to be a long-term starter in the NBA, he's going to have to learn how to play the point the right way. I'd say that's motivation enough, and he has a coach that needs him to be a facilitator as well. I think he can do it, and the Sixers seem to think so as well. Lets wait and see.

Offline Skates

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2009, 03:02:11 PM »
Lou is a combo third guard at best on a very good team.  If he has improved his shooting this summer, then the PO should cover some of his deficiencies at PG and he will be serviceable for now.  He really deosn't have the size, attitude or instincts to be a good defender at any position.  Currently I consider him starting to be a place holder for Holiday.

jemagee

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2009, 03:05:19 PM »
Quote
Lou came out of high school into the NBA, he was drafted on his potential, not as a finished product. Until this season, he's been a back-up in an unstructured environment with a team that didn't run set plays, but just tried to get an open shot.

How long has he been in the NBA now?

This is eerily similar to a Dalembert excuse used in the past.


Offline RickyPryor

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Re: I'll Tell Ya...We Get No Respect...
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2009, 03:27:23 PM »