Possible sign and trade of Marion to the Mavs.

[westkoast]

I am saying just because you double Marion doesn't mean that it's going to completely break the offense down on that play.  I think having Kidd and Marion in a pick and roll situation at times (I did not say bread and butter) can be beneficial.  It gives them another play to run that they could not have ran before.

Jason Kidd shoots 42% from the field for his career.  While that is not great numbers, a wide open shot is still a good look and Kidd can knock them down.  Is he Ray Allen?  No, obviously not.  Is an open look with space still a good shot to take? Yes.  If they DON'T double, which I have a feeling they won't every time since I don't think this should or would be a bread and butter play, then you have a guy who can make the right pass to Marion in the lane for a slam.

wk, my point is that play will never develop, you will never put a team in a situation where they have to make a critical decision on defense.  Any time the pick and roll is run with Kidd and player X, the defense will go under the screen, NOT switch and  NOT double team.  Kidd's shooting percentage is misleading because of his scoring in the paint and wide open shots off the double team.  Kidd will not get those looks in a pick-n-roll/pop situation.  He's going to get a mid-range shot comming off a dribble, not even close to a strength of his, he will pass the shot up 80% of the time.

Won't work.

If I get proven wrong in the course of the year, so be it.  Using Marion the way he was in Phoenix seems like the way to maximize his athletic ability.  Though Jason Terry could run the pick and roll with Marion instead it just feels like he takes the shot a lot more than he passes. 

 Though it may not develop because Marion won't get to Dallas LOL

[Lurker]

I am saying just because you double Marion doesn't mean that it's going to completely break the offense down on that play.  I think having Kidd and Marion in a pick and roll situation at times (I did not say bread and butter) can be beneficial.  It gives them another play to run that they could not have ran before.

Jason Kidd shoots 42% from the field for his career.  While that is not great numbers, a wide open shot is still a good look and Kidd can knock them down.  Is he Ray Allen?  No, obviously not.  Is an open look with space still a good shot to take? Yes.  If they DON'T double, which I have a feeling they won't every time since I don't think this should or would be a bread and butter play, then you have a guy who can make the right pass to Marion in the lane for a slam.

wk, my point is that play will never develop, you will never put a team in a situation where they have to make a critical decision on defense.  Any time the pick and roll is run with Kidd and player X, the defense will go under the screen, NOT switch and  NOT double team.  Kidd's shooting percentage is misleading because of his scoring in the paint and wide open shots off the double team.  Kidd will not get those looks in a pick-n-roll/pop situation.  He's going to get a mid-range shot comming off a dribble, not even close to a strength of his, he will pass the shot up 80% of the time.

Won't work.

If I get proven wrong in the course of the year, so be it.  Using Marion the way he was in Phoenix seems like the way to maximize his athletic ability.  Though Jason Terry could run the pick and roll with Marion instead it just feels like he takes the shot a lot more than he passes. 

 Though it may not develop because Marion won't get to Dallas LOL

Nash didn't run the pick & roll with Marion in Phoenix.  Marion got the majority of his points off transition and offensive boards.  In the halfcourt he usually set up in the corner.  And you are right; using him like Phoenix did is the best way to maximize his skills.

[westkoast]

I am saying just because you double Marion doesn't mean that it's going to completely break the offense down on that play.  I think having Kidd and Marion in a pick and roll situation at times (I did not say bread and butter) can be beneficial.  It gives them another play to run that they could not have ran before.

Jason Kidd shoots 42% from the field for his career.  While that is not great numbers, a wide open shot is still a good look and Kidd can knock them down.  Is he Ray Allen?  No, obviously not.  Is an open look with space still a good shot to take? Yes.  If they DON'T double, which I have a feeling they won't every time since I don't think this should or would be a bread and butter play, then you have a guy who can make the right pass to Marion in the lane for a slam.

wk, my point is that play will never develop, you will never put a team in a situation where they have to make a critical decision on defense.  Any time the pick and roll is run with Kidd and player X, the defense will go under the screen, NOT switch and  NOT double team.  Kidd's shooting percentage is misleading because of his scoring in the paint and wide open shots off the double team.  Kidd will not get those looks in a pick-n-roll/pop situation.  He's going to get a mid-range shot comming off a dribble, not even close to a strength of his, he will pass the shot up 80% of the time.

Won't work.

If I get proven wrong in the course of the year, so be it.  Using Marion the way he was in Phoenix seems like the way to maximize his athletic ability.  Though Jason Terry could run the pick and roll with Marion instead it just feels like he takes the shot a lot more than he passes. 

 Though it may not develop because Marion won't get to Dallas LOL

Nash didn't run the pick & roll with Marion in Phoenix.  Marion got the majority of his points off transition and offensive boards.  In the halfcourt he usually set up in the corner.  And you are right; using him like Phoenix did is the best way to maximize his skills.

Really?  I've seen them do it a lot of times.  Or a flash like he's going to screen then goes to the rim ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tVl2bUfa8&feature=related )  Especially when Amare was down for an extended period of time.  He is better in the open court but to say they didn't run the pick and roll with Marion is not true.  He is capable of doing it.

[Lurker]

I am saying just because you double Marion doesn't mean that it's going to completely break the offense down on that play.  I think having Kidd and Marion in a pick and roll situation at times (I did not say bread and butter) can be beneficial.  It gives them another play to run that they could not have ran before.

Jason Kidd shoots 42% from the field for his career.  While that is not great numbers, a wide open shot is still a good look and Kidd can knock them down.  Is he Ray Allen?  No, obviously not.  Is an open look with space still a good shot to take? Yes.  If they DON'T double, which I have a feeling they won't every time since I don't think this should or would be a bread and butter play, then you have a guy who can make the right pass to Marion in the lane for a slam.

wk, my point is that play will never develop, you will never put a team in a situation where they have to make a critical decision on defense.  Any time the pick and roll is run with Kidd and player X, the defense will go under the screen, NOT switch and  NOT double team.  Kidd's shooting percentage is misleading because of his scoring in the paint and wide open shots off the double team.  Kidd will not get those looks in a pick-n-roll/pop situation.  He's going to get a mid-range shot comming off a dribble, not even close to a strength of his, he will pass the shot up 80% of the time.

Won't work.

If I get proven wrong in the course of the year, so be it.  Using Marion the way he was in Phoenix seems like the way to maximize his athletic ability.  Though Jason Terry could run the pick and roll with Marion instead it just feels like he takes the shot a lot more than he passes. 

 Though it may not develop because Marion won't get to Dallas LOL

Nash didn't run the pick & roll with Marion in Phoenix.  Marion got the majority of his points off transition and offensive boards.  In the halfcourt he usually set up in the corner.  And you are right; using him like Phoenix did is the best way to maximize his skills.

Really?  I've seen them do it a lot of times.  Or a flash like he's going to screen then goes to the rim ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tVl2bUfa8&feature=related )  Especially when Amare was down for an extended period of time.  He is better in the open court but to say they didn't run the pick and roll with Marion is not true.  He is capable of doing it.

So look long enough and you also probably could find a pick and roll with Nash/Grant Hill.   

It wasn't the bread & butter (same argument you want to use).  But it wasn't done often because that isn't using those players skills effectively.  In the games I watched Nash would run the pick & roll with whoever the center was: Amare/Diaw/etc.  Marion was usually an outlet off the pick & roll.

[Joe Vancil]

Actually, Nash *DID* run pick-and-roll a lot with Marion - during the year Stoudemire was out.  That year, Nash/Marion was the typical pick-and-roll, with Diaw as the out man because of his passing.

WayOut has the idea - personally, I double the roll, and in doing that, I force Kidd to shoot.  If he tries to drive, he's driving right toward his defender.  Going under the pick is also valid, but even so, I'm helping on the roll rather than worrying about Kidd shooting.