Lakers over come series extending refs to win game 4!

[msc]

Only surpassed by WOW's 10-15 posts of whining during and after every game.

  Hey Lurker, cut us some slack, we're used to being the team getting the calls.  Some of us are having a hard time adjusting to being on the other end of the bad calls which has been the case in several games in these playoffs.  

I had been impressed the last couple games by Pietrus pulling himself together and playing with a lot of heart.  Then he has to go and pull that cheap play at the end.  Yep, he should be suspended. 

I agree 100%.  Very cheap and definately should sit out the next game or two.  IMO worse than what Horry did to Nash.

I disagree here.  Yes, it was a cheap foul.  They called a flagrant 1, which was the right call on the floor at the time.  No need to go back and review the replay and suspend the kid.  This reviewing and post-issuing, or post-rescinding flagrant fouls is beyond absurd at this point.  It was a cheap foul, they called a flagrant 1, good call, move on.  I said it about Fish and I say it about Petri-dish.  

[Laker Fan]

I agree 100%.  Very cheap and definately should sit out the next game or two.  IMO worse than what Horry did to Nash.

I disagree here.  Yes, it was a cheap foul.  They called a flagrant 1, which was the right call on the floor at the time.  No need to go back and review the replay and suspend the kid.  This reviewing and post-issuing, or post-rescinding flagrant fouls is beyond absurd at this point.  It was a cheap foul, they called a flagrant 1, good call, move on.  I said it about Fish and I say it about Petri-dish.  

Hokey Smokes MSC! You couldn't be more wrong! There is no comparison here between Fisher and Peitrus, Fisher was a very hard, very deliberate body check, but it was nothing more than that, he didn't hit Scola from behind, he didn't hit him with 2 closed fists, he didn't hit him while he was in the air, he sent a message to a thug that was abusing his team mates that it had better stop, and he sat a game for it, no comparison, not even close. Peitrus needs to sit a game.

[jn]

msc, I would be more inclined to agree with you if he didn't have his hands balled up into fists.  I think there's a cutoff point there that has to be observed.  In fact I believe that's written into the rulebook.

[westkoast]

What thing I don't get is why does Pau Gasol still have to pay the fine for the technical.  What else is a player suppose to do in that situation?  Get hammer fists in the back like a UFC guy and just not saying anything?  I know someone is going to say 'well koast, rules are rules' and that would make me ask 'Well does P get suspended for a game then?'

[msc]

I agree 100%.  Very cheap and definately should sit out the next game or two.  IMO worse than what Horry did to Nash.

I disagree here.  Yes, it was a cheap foul.  They called a flagrant 1, which was the right call on the floor at the time.  No need to go back and review the replay and suspend the kid.  This reviewing and post-issuing, or post-rescinding flagrant fouls is beyond absurd at this point.  It was a cheap foul, they called a flagrant 1, good call, move on.  I said it about Fish and I say it about Petri-dish.  

Hokey Smokes MSC! You couldn't be more wrong! There is no comparison here between Fisher and Peitrus, Fisher was a very hard, very deliberate body check, but it was nothing more than that, he didn't hit Scola from behind, he didn't hit him with 2 closed fists, he didn't hit him while he was in the air, he sent a message to a thug that was abusing his team mates that it had better stop, and he sat a game for it, no comparison, not even close. Peitrus needs to sit a game.

Laker Fan, I don't necessarily disagree with you or jn, who both make valid points.  My whole issue is rooted 100% in what I believe is the league getting out of hand with these retroactive flagrant assessments.  In viewing the replay, yes, he had closed fists and that does make a difference as jn points out.  I think the refs made the call on the floor and while technically it very well should have been a flagrant 2 (although I just read the league said it wasn't ... go figure?) the refs at least got it almost right as a flagrant 1.  I can live with that as a missed call.  Heck, the way they were calling things last night, I'm actually surprised they even called that a foul on Petri-dish

[Joe Vancil]

The refs had A LOT to do with the last two games.  Howard is getting away with MURDER!  Howard did not get away with all those fouls against Philly, Boston, nor Cleveland.  He's clearly being protected by the refs in Orlando.  Howard has not been in foul trouble in 3 or the 4 games when he's been getting in to trouble consistently in this years playoffs.

Didn't see Game 4, although I think I'd have been OUTRAGED at what happened to Gasol, based on what I'm hearing. 

But I'm having a hard time buying the referee thing when you say the refs had a lot to do with the last TWO games, Miguel.  I *WATCHED* game 3.  I thought the referees had very little to do with that game at all - minus the idiotic missed double-dribble by Pietrus, of course.  I'd have been *VERY* likely to buy it had you said just game 4.

[Joe Vancil]

Good win, LA is CLEARLY the better team, oh and was it you Joe who said we would LOVE Ariza? I think this cat saved this game for us tonight, and Fisher is the new Horry.

Yes, I was the one who said you'd *LOVE* Ariza when you got him.  But in fairness, I also said he couldn't shoot.

And I'm going to offer a word of caution about Ariza right now:  he's turning into Stephen Jackson in the 2003 Finals and Bryon Russell in 1999.  Jackson did his very best to shoot San Antonio out of the 2003 series, and cost them one game, in my opinion.  Bryon Russell decided he was a Miller-esque 3-point threat, and became valueless to Utah in short order.  Ariza is hitting three-pointers right now, but that doesn't make him a 3-point shooter.  He is Bowen, not Miller.  He's supposed to shoot his shots as a punishment, not as a threat.  That means CHOOSING which of those open shots you take...not taking every one that's available.  That's the difference between a role player and a primary threat.

Someone needs to remind Ariza that just because he's hit a critical 3-pointer here and there, his calling card is his defense.

From a coach's perspective, I am *NOT* pleased with the course Ariza has been taking over the Denver and Orlando series.  I think he cost LA game 3 by taking too many shots.  And it's a trend I'm seeing more and more often.

Tell me, Laker fans, would you be pleased if Vujacic or Radmanovic or Odom took all the shots Ariza is taking?  Why not?  All of them are better shooters.  DO NOT give Ariza a pass on all the bad shots just because of his defense.  As a guy who watched what Bryon Russell did to the Jazz, let me tell you, the end result is not a pretty sight.

However - Ariza's defense is MARVELOUS.  And LA *HAS* to be happy with that...just like I said.

[westkoast]

Good win, LA is CLEARLY the better team, oh and was it you Joe who said we would LOVE Ariza? I think this cat saved this game for us tonight, and Fisher is the new Horry.

Yes, I was the one who said you'd *LOVE* Ariza when you got him.  But in fairness, I also said he couldn't shoot.

And I'm going to offer a word of caution about Ariza right now:  he's turning into Stephen Jackson in the 2003 Finals and Bryon Russell in 1999.  Jackson did his very best to shoot San Antonio out of the 2003 series, and cost them one game, in my opinion.  Bryon Russell decided he was a Miller-esque 3-point threat, and became valueless to Utah in short order.  Ariza is hitting three-pointers right now, but that doesn't make him a 3-point shooter.  He is Bowen, not Miller.  He's supposed to shoot his shots as a punishment, not as a threat.  That means CHOOSING which of those open shots you take...not taking every one that's available.  That's the difference between a role player and a primary threat.

Someone needs to remind Ariza that just because he's hit a critical 3-pointer here and there, his calling card is his defense.

From a coach's perspective, I am *NOT* pleased with the course Ariza has been taking over the Denver and Orlando series.  I think he cost LA game 3 by taking too many shots.  And it's a trend I'm seeing more and more often.

Tell me, Laker fans, would you be pleased if Vujacic or Radmanovic or Odom took all the shots Ariza is taking?  Why not?  All of them are better shooters.  DO NOT give Ariza a pass on all the bad shots just because of his defense.  As a guy who watched what Bryon Russell did to the Jazz, let me tell you, the end result is not a pretty sight.

However - Ariza's defense is MARVELOUS.  And LA *HAS* to be happy with that...just like I said.

You were right, he couldn't shoot.  He LEARNED to shoot after getting that injury since there was nothing else he really could do.  Your record of calling things is still in tact good sir! lol

Honestly I don't see him going the Stephen Jackson route.   He doesn't force up shots very often and he doesn't get pumped up when he scores (chalk this up to an ego difference between the 2).  The one he hit at the top of the key was forced due to the shot clock.  He will take the shot when he is open and they leave him open often.  That is why he has taken a lot more 3s.   In his defense he has done what the coaches asked with faking the shot and attacking the rim.  If he has an open path he will get into the paint.  His offensive game isn't quite wreckless and he is very much aware his job is to play defense.  An open shot is an open shot though.  He has to take it to keep the defense from cheating off him into the paint.  That alone justifies almost all of his shots for me since I don't feel he forces them up.

I wouldn't be mad if the guys you mentioned took the same wide open shots Ariza is .  If they were doing what I pointed out above I don't see a problem.  Odom is not a better jump shooter than Ariza is BTW.  He actually has a very inconsistent jumper where as Ariza has really done a solid job of working on his.   Radman and Sasha were notorious for just jacking up shots as soon as the ball touched their hands.  It is RARE for Sasha to continue to re post and then take a shot after the Laker on the block has pulled the defense in.  Ariza is more a long the lines of a Derek Fisher.  Even if the shot is not being made they are not forced or horrible shots often.  I don't mind Ariza or Fisher taking 3s most of the time because I like their decision making.

[Joe Vancil]

Bryon Russell learned to shoot, too.  Then he insisted on displaying that art.  I didn't mind having Bryon Russell on defense...BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT BRYON RUSSELL SHOOTING THE BALL!  (Sorry....inside joke.)

Ariza is taking TOO MANY shots.  Even if they are good shots, there is such a thing as TOO MANY.

It's easy to forgive Ariza, because he's such a great defender.  But too many shots is still too many shots.