Author Topic: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic  (Read 11224 times)

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2009, 09:27:50 PM »

And then, THEY LOST! End of story.  Never, ever give the other team a chance to take the game. If we miss the shot, I'll take that instead. This is coaching 101 as far as I am concerned.  I see a lot of games where it comes down to which team has the last shot.  If you can manipulate the clock beforehand to ensure that you wind up with the last possession, in a tight game that is best. Knowing 2nd- chance shots can screw up the best plans.  The Sixers have taken two games in this series because they managed to take and make the last shot. Now, they have lost one because they didn't.

Sorry, Rick.  You're wrong.  The Sixers would have preferred there be no time, sure...but the time they did have warranted a 'take the best shot whenever it's available' approach and not some Hail Mary with :04 to go.

Down the other end they could foul Howard if he became dangerous in the paint, or play a long-baller tight.  THAT'S the part of the plan we blew.  (Just as Thad blew that Celtics game with his 'd'...so to was this his fault.)

Anyway...as usual, I'll bow out of the disagreement.  I'm just not interested in beating this to death.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2009, 08:29:37 AM »
...except to point out that the Inquirer once again made mention of Thad's 'd' on that play.  Apparently it was Van Gundy's plan that - whichever of their forwards was guarded by Thad, after a screen - HE was to take the last shot.  That's how shaky Thad's perimeter 'd' is thought to be.

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2009, 08:33:49 AM »
...except to point out that the Inquirer once again made mention of Thad's 'd' on that play.  Apparently it was Van Gundy's plan that - whichever of their forwards was guarded by Thad, after a screen - HE was to take the last shot.  That's how shaky Thad's perimeter 'd' is thought to be.

Or maybe they respect Iggy's D?  If you have a choice of attacking one or the other, of course you're going to attack Thad.  If one defender is elite and one defender is simple above average, which one do you attack?  The latter of course.  That's good coaching.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2009, 08:46:53 AM »

Or maybe they respect Iggy's D?  If you have a choice of attacking one or the other, of course you're going to attack Thad.  If one defender is elite and one defender is simple above average, which one do you attack?  The latter of course.  That's good coaching.

Bingo.

 ;)


And so there WAS room for improvement on that last play, wasn't there.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2009, 09:32:35 AM »

And then, THEY LOST! End of story.  Never, ever give the other team a chance to take the game. If we miss the shot, I'll take that instead. This is coaching 101 as far as I am concerned.  I see a lot of games where it comes down to which team has the last shot.  If you can manipulate the clock beforehand to ensure that you wind up with the last possession, in a tight game that is best. Knowing 2nd- chance shots can screw up the best plans.  The Sixers have taken two games in this series because they managed to take and make the last shot. Now, they have lost one because they didn't.

Sorry, Rick.  You're wrong.  The Sixers would have preferred there be no time, sure...but the time they did have warranted a 'take the best shot whenever it's available' approach and not some Hail Mary with :04 to go.

Down the other end they could foul Howard if he became dangerous in the paint, or play a long-baller tight.  THAT'S the part of the plan we blew.  (Just as Thad blew that Celtics game with his 'd'...so to was this his fault.)

Anyway...as usual, I'll bow out of the disagreement.  I'm just not interested in beating this to death.

I am not wrong. Your opinion is.  There appears to be a significant problem with your thinking  a severe lack of logical thought.  Besides, you already beat this to death.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2009, 09:46:58 AM »


I am not wrong. Your opinion is.  There appears to be a significant problem with your thinking  a severe lack of logical thought.  Besides, you already beat this to death.

It's not my opinion.  It's the proven practices behind John Wooden and Morgan Whooten's (whom I've had the pleasure of coaching against, thrice, in my career) unparalleled success.

It's called fundamentals; and I fancy myself an expert.  So do many who watched me go 79-9 over a 3-year period at a major high school program in New York City.

I've coached 2 eventual NBA players and 4 current NCAA players (including Jesse Sapp; PG of Georgetown).

There's alot I don't know.  Basketball fundamentals aren't, however, included in that set. 

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2009, 11:55:29 AM »


I am not wrong. Your opinion is.  There appears to be a significant problem with your thinking  a severe lack of logical thought.  Besides, you already beat this to death.

It's not my opinion.  It's the proven practices behind John Wooden and Morgan Whooten's (whom I've had the pleasure of coaching against, thrice, in my career) unparalleled success.

It's called fundamentals; and I fancy myself an expert.  So do many who watched me go 79-9 over a 3-year period at a major high school program in New York City.

I've coached 2 eventual NBA players and 4 current NCAA players (including Jesse Sapp; PG of Georgetown).

There's alot I don't know.  Basketball fundamentals aren't, however, included in that set. 

We've had the same discussion with rick, he's a slow learner:

http://forums.phillyarena.com/index.php?topic=5545.0
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2009, 09:53:59 PM »
We're not talking about College Ball or High School ball, especially from the days before they had a shot clock. This is Pro basketball, where you have confidence in your ball handlers and your team's ability to create a shot.

It's not worth discussing since you can't come up with a reason why you should play the way you say it should be.  And you continue to ignore history and the many times this season the Sixers lost games on a last shot by an opponent. The Sixers cannot stop a desperation shot, but they can often make one. It has been a trademark for the team to play for the last shot at the end of each quarter, just to practice a buzzer beater. They know exactly how long it takes to run a play and make the shot just in time.

But this is a truth for every team in the league and in fact any team sport that is governed by a shot clock. You should always play for the opportunity to score last.

I'm still waiting for a justification for your idea of how to play this. I have a feeling that none of you will be able to come up with a good reason to allow the other team to have the last shot.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2009, 02:04:20 AM »
Quote
I fancy myself an expert

You have made that abundantly clear on every message board you've ever posted on.

Offline RickyPryor

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2009, 08:19:00 AM »
We're not talking about College Ball or High School ball, especially from the days before they had a shot clock. This is Pro basketball, where you have confidence in your ball handlers and your team's ability to create a shot.

It's not worth discussing since you can't come up with a reason why you should play the way you say it should be.  And you continue to ignore history and the many times this season the Sixers lost games on a last shot by an opponent. The Sixers cannot stop a desperation shot, but they can often make one. It has been a trademark for the team to play for the last shot at the end of each quarter, just to practice a buzzer beater. They know exactly how long it takes to run a play and make the shot just in time.

But this is a truth for every team in the league and in fact any team sport that is governed by a shot clock. You should always play for the opportunity to score last.

I'm still waiting for a justification for your idea of how to play this. I have a feeling that none of you will be able to come up with a good reason to allow the other team to have the last shot.

It's quite simple, really.

It's crucial to score in that possession.  Do-or-die.  You take the highest percentage; and that's almost never in desperation (by definition).  That's it.

Plus, God forbid you miss and give them the ball back, you still can shut them down at the other end, go for a steal, or foul.

Put it this way: would you prefer to have taken the shot we did, Sam from 6-inches....or Hedo's, a launched 3 with :01?  The answer is simple.  High percentage every time.

Hedo lucked out in that his desperation shot was aided by the laughable defense of Thad, confirmed by Hedo himself and Van Gundy. ;)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 08:22:07 AM by RickyPryor »

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Game 4 Sixers v. Magic
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2009, 10:20:35 AM »
We're not talking about College Ball or High School ball, especially from the days before they had a shot clock. This is Pro basketball, where you have confidence in your ball handlers and your team's ability to create a shot.

It's not worth discussing since you can't come up with a reason why you should play the way you say it should be.  And you continue to ignore history and the many times this season the Sixers lost games on a last shot by an opponent. The Sixers cannot stop a desperation shot, but they can often make one. It has been a trademark for the team to play for the last shot at the end of each quarter, just to practice a buzzer beater. They know exactly how long it takes to run a play and make the shot just in time.

But this is a truth for every team in the league and in fact any team sport that is governed by a shot clock. You should always play for the opportunity to score last.

I'm still waiting for a justification for your idea of how to play this. I have a feeling that none of you will be able to come up with a good reason to allow the other team to have the last shot.

It's quite simple, really.

It's crucial to score in that possession.  Do-or-die.  You take the highest percentage; and that's almost never in desperation (by definition).  That's it.

Plus, God forbid you miss and give them the ball back, you still can shut them down at the other end, go for a steal, or foul.

Put it this way: would you prefer to have taken the shot we did, Sam from 6-inches....or Hedo's, a launched 3 with :01?  The answer is simple.  High percentage every time.

Hedo lucked out in that his desperation shot was aided by the laughable defense of Thad, confirmed by Hedo himself and Van Gundy. ;)


Desperation or Pressure, as I prefer to call it, is largely irrelevant to a professional basketball player. In fact many of them live for that feeling of being able to come through in those circumstances. Iguodala and Hedo being prime examples of players who thrive under those conditions. Even an old player like Marshall loves to shoot threes when they're really needed. 

I'll agree that the shot Sam took was a very high percentage shot, and preferable to Hedo's.  But anyone who watches Hedo play knows that he can hit that shot, under pressure.

Bottom line is that with the ball your team has control and that is the most important thing. You don't put yourself in a position where if you fail to defend you lose. And by your decision you place the pressure on your defense to perform instead! 

It cost the Sixers nothing to hold onto the ball. The only concern would be Orlando fouling, which they wouldn't do, since that would allow the Sixers to tie the game from the free-throw line. Or a mistake which can occur on either end of the floor. On that last play, the defense was keyed on Iguodala as the Magic knew it would be.  Howard was going to come out to meet him on a drive. That lob to Sammy would have been just as open with 2 sec. on the clock, and we would have secured an overtime.

The way that you and Wow advocate playing results in your opponent having the last shot. And either you defend or you loose. I would rather trust my scorers to come through in such a pressure situation than my defenders. Particularly on a team like the Sixers who lost so many games on a last-second lucky shot.  In basketball lightning does strike in the same place! 

If you HAVE TO defend then you do as best as you can. I thought Thad did as well as possible defending that play. Hedo could have put the ball on the floor and headed to the basket if That got any closer. So Hedo makes a three, a clutch shot from a clutch player, just like the two wins the Sixers secured.

The difference is that I wouldn't even give him that shot. Why risk it, or open yourself to that possibility of the other team scoring and your team losing.  Because your afraid to take a last shot? Scoring is generally easier then defending. Even for a team like Phila. that manages to steal the ball often.