Does anybody think the Magic are amoung the "elite"?

[WayOutWest]

Obviously the front runners are the Cavs, Celtics, and Lakers but does anybody think the Magic should be included in that group?  While their record says yes, IMO they are not ready.  They seem to be a big man and bench away from being a true contender.  I'm not a fan of Jameer either but he's probably good enough.  Howard needs some help in the front court and I don't remember anyone note worthy on their bench.  I don't think their regular season success will translate into the post season.  Some of their fate will rest in the hands of Hedo, he had such a solid season last year but has had a slight drop off.  He looks to be picking it up lately.

Tough to see the Magic in the ECF with the likes of the Cavs and Celtics roaming around.  IMO the Magic need to get the seed that avoids the Cavs and Celts in the first 2 rounds to make it into the ECF.

[rickortreat]

Based on their statistics, they are closer to Cleveland, LA and Boston then they are to the rest of the league.  Cleveland is the clear leader at his point, with a 12.4 pt. spread of what they score vs. what they allow. LA is at 8.8. Boston is at 8.6 and Orlando is at 7.76  The next closest team is New Orleans at 3.84 with Utah at 3.83.

So there is a huge gap between the top 4 and the rest of the league and Cleveland is way, way ahead of everyone else.  If You say that Boston and LA are elite when they are 3.5 pts behind Cleveland, logically you can't deny Orlando at less than a point behind.

All the other teams have a point advantage less than half of Orlando's, and remember half the teams have a negative number.

Orlando is doing a great job on defense too, as their opponents only manage a .428 shooting percentage.  The only teams that shoot that way for the whole season are the cellar dwellers, so Orlando makes other teams look bad.

I don't disagree with your analysis of what they lack, but few teams have found a way to beat them.  Their biggest obstacle is that the Eastern division has two of the top 3 whereas LA is the only Elite team out West.

Even though this is a snapshot statistic, of what they have done so far, it is very hard for a team to win by more than 5 points on a consistent basis.  It shows these teams have a real killer instinct and don't just beat teams, but tend to blow them out and humiliate them.

Elite yes, but the question is can they get past either Cleveland or Boston.  Their record and performance to date suggests they are right there, and getting past those two is the next step.

[westkoast]

Based on their statistics, they are closer to Cleveland, LA and Boston then they are to the rest of the league.  Cleveland is the clear leader at his point, with a 12.4 pt. spread of what they score vs. what they allow. LA is at 8.8. Boston is at 8.6 and Orlando is at 7.76  The next closest team is New Orleans at 3.84 with Utah at 3.83.

So there is a huge gap between the top 4 and the rest of the league and Cleveland is way, way ahead of everyone else.  If You say that Boston and LA are elite when they are 3.5 pts behind Cleveland, logically you can't deny Orlando at less than a point behind.

All the other teams have a point advantage less than half of Orlando's, and remember half the teams have a negative number.

Orlando is doing a great job on defense too, as their opponents only manage a .428 shooting percentage.  The only teams that shoot that way for the whole season are the cellar dwellers, so Orlando makes other teams look bad.

I don't disagree with your analysis of what they lack, but few teams have found a way to beat them.  Their biggest obstacle is that the Eastern division has two of the top 3 whereas LA is the only Elite team out West.

Even though this is a snapshot statistic, of what they have done so far, it is very hard for a team to win by more than 5 points on a consistent basis.  It shows these teams have a real killer instinct and don't just beat teams, but tend to blow them out and humiliate them.

Elite yes, but the question is can they get past either Cleveland or Boston.  Their record and performance to date suggests they are right there, and getting past those two is the next step.

Except the other 3 teams have gone deep in the playoffs and the Magic have not.  While it is easy to give the nod right now based on their point margin I personally don't consider them an elite team in the league until they get out of the first round.

[WayOutWest]

Except the other 3 teams have gone deep in the playoffs and the Magic have not.  While it is easy to give the nod right now based on their point margin I personally don't consider them an elite team in the league until they get out of the first round.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.  They have not changed anything that would change my expectations of them come playoff time other than their record.  So have the Magic players improved or has the rest of the league gotten worse? 

I really can't say in regards to the Magic but I totally agree with Rick regarding the Cavs.  The Cavs are killers!  I think they took their loss to the Celtics truely to heart, they want to destroy the Celtics.  I wish the Lakers had that desire to kill every night the way the Cavs seem to bring to the court every night.

[westkoast]

Except the other 3 teams have gone deep in the playoffs and the Magic have not.  While it is easy to give the nod right now based on their point margin I personally don't consider them an elite team in the league until they get out of the first round.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.  They have not changed anything that would change my expectations of them come playoff time other than their record.  So have the Magic players improved or has the rest of the league gotten worse? 

I really can't say in regards to the Magic but I totally agree with Rick regarding the Cavs.  The Cavs are killers!  I think they took their loss to the Celtics truely to heart, they want to destroy the Celtics.  I wish the Lakers had that desire to kill every night the way the Cavs seem to bring to the court every night.

I don't want to take anything away from what they have done so far.  They are playing very good basketball right now.  The thing is the Celtics and Lakers just went to the finals last year.  The Cavs were their the year before.  All three of those squads went deep in the playoffs last year.  To me the Orlando Magic need to get deep before they are considered an 'elite' team.  Having a good regular season record doesn't mean everything just ask the Dallas Mavericks.

[rickortreat]

If they had done it before we wouldn't even have this discussion.  We'd already know they were elite!  Ultimately it is playoff wins that determine who is who, but before they get there, they have to take care of business the way Orlando is now.

They play like an elite team during the regular season.  We all know that the playoffs are at a higher level, but we also know the elite teams are the ones that raise their level of play the highest.

I think it's more intersting to see which teams have fallen out of Elite status.  My first candidate to drop is Detroit, who in spite of having the 4th best record in the East only win by a razor-thin advantage of half a point.  They are ranked 14th, more like a middle of the road club than a winner. Denver is much better, which is very surprising to me at + 3.68,  For the 7th rank. Shows that Billlups is better for his team than AI is for Detroit.

Hollinger dropped SA from the teams he thinks will make the playoffs, but they're right behind Denver at 3.61.