The Spurs...

[Skandery]

...are a good team because of Tim Duncan.

They are a championship team because of Manu Ginobili. 

Manu Ginobili willed the Spurs to victory single-handedly.  You could also say he was responsible for two different ejections (Sloan and Fisher).  Of course everyone's favorite Referee, Steve Javie, was in fine form but Manu Ginobili played him like a fiddle.  Absolutely beautiful game by Ginobili all the way around, he simply dominated the 4th quarter in every conceivable way imaginable.  Mental, physical, and spiritual.  Drawing fouls, hitting shots.  I loved the flops on the two jump shots that lead to the ejection of Derek Fisher.   Here is a guy that perfected that style of play on the Lakers.  So I must say even though I'm cheering for Utah, I loved that Manu Ginobili got in the middle of Derek Fisher's brain, manipulated it, messed with it, did the Argentian hat dance, and in the end ejected Derek Fisher and his brain out of the game.  How's that medicine taste D-Fish?  I'll take solace in the loss from the game old Manuella played today.  As a basketball fan--Amazing!!

....and to get this out of the way, Reality told ya so on Flabs.        

[Reality]

Duncan was by far the Jazz MVP in tonights game, altho his finally hitting 3-4 FTs cost him some unanimous votes.
Concur with your takes on Manu.  And notice when he makes the plays?  When Spurs are at their absolute lowest of low and the opponent has completely taken momentum away.  Tonight after they built up the 11 point lead the Popacement no ball movement offense and Duncan turnover machine was soo painful to watch. 

Thank heavens the ref did not give Swisher the call on his Flagrant 3 flop when GNob busted to the hoop for a layup.  As to his walking into and shouldering GNob, a good T.  Mark Jackson saying both of them walked into each other.  ABC is beyond incompetent. 

As to Fabs.....does anyone have a current working email for Randy?

[Reality]

Boozers jumpshooting is great and DWilliams is in a come, fortunate for the Spurs he was feeling ill.
AK is playing with a broken finger and thats got to be figured in.  He's making some great blocks.

[Skandery]

JEEZ, Adrian, get your own story!!


===============================================================================

Playing the flop card
 
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
May 29, 2007

SALT LAKE CITY – When it was over, the San Antonio Spurs hustled out of the arena under a barrage of boos and descending debris, the Utah Jazz's flustered fandom throwing cups to tiny tubes of lip balm out of the stands. Manu Ginobili didn't stop to admire the mayhem left in his wake, but there was no mistaking that the rage tumbling down out of the rafters had been a testament to his talent of provoking even the most polished of Jazz playoff performers.

Coach Jerry Sloan had been tossed for marching out on the court and venting over the technical foul called on Derek Fisher for running down the floor, searching Ginobili out and plowing a shoulder into him.

"I don't know why he got upset," Ginobili shrugged later.

Soon, Sloan and Fisher would be watching the final 2½ minutes of San Antonio's 91-79 Game 4 victory together in the losing locker room, where assuredly they still were cursing Ginobili.
 
"I can't recall anything for (Fisher's shot) to happen," Ginobili said, "but if that helps the team win and get a couple of easy free throws, I'm ready to do it."

Throughout Monday night, Ginobili flailed his arms near the basket, tumbled to the floor and marched to the free-throw line an extraordinary 15 times. With the ball, he lowered his shoulder into Fisher, bullied him backward and drove past for a layup. There always is acrimony left on his trail to the rim, a defender with his arms outstretched, pleading to the official, desperate to understand how Ginobili conned himself another call.

"I don't want to say he flops," Utah's Deron Williams sighed later, "but … I mean … he flops."

Yes, he does. He flopped his way to 15 of his 22 points in the fourth quarter, including 11 at the line, and this Western Conference final is over. The Spurs are returning home with a 3-1 series lead and an 18-game AT&T Center winning streak against the Jazz. It won't be long until San Antonio is back in the NBA finals for the third time in five years, chasing a fourth title in a decade.

Along the way, when Ginobili is playing well, the Spurs have been virtually unbeatable. All his life, he has been a big-game, big-moment player. He won the gold medal for Argentina in the 2004 Athens Olympics, dropping 29 points on the Americans in the semifinals.

As it turned out Monday, this was a marvelous night for Argentinean basketball in Game 4. Beyond Ginobili, his teammate Fabricio Oberto was everywhere on the floor, delivering 11 points and 11 rebounds. He's a pest, too, a 6-foot-10 forward who played professional ball overseas since 1993 before San Antonio's crackerjack general manager, R.C. Buford, recruited him to the NBA last year.

"Fabby is a blue-collar guy," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said.

As though there's any other kind in San Antonio. Fabby and Manu, two Argentines deep in the heart of Texas. Sounds like a sitcom. Nevertheless, Ginobili made it easy for Oberto to transition to the NBA. Now they appear destined to win an NBA title together, the way they did a gold medal.

Ginobili pushed Game 4 out of reach by slinking out of a slumber in the fourth quarter. Once Utah moved within 67-66 with just less than 10 minutes left, he hit a three-pointer and the Jazz never were within a basket again.

"I don't think I did too much to get into their skin in the first three quarters," Ginobili said. "I didn't go to the rim as hard."

It wouldn’t be long until those daring drives were ending with a whistle and free throws for Ginobili, until Fisher lost his mind with that lowered shoulder, and then a swinging arm upside Ginobili’s head that laid him out on a jumper for his second technical foul. For such a genteel, agreeable soul, Ginobili has a habit of driving people out of their minds and out of the game.

As the debris descended out of the stands, as Sloan and Fisher seethed in the locker room, Manu Ginobili gave it the "What did I do?" shrug as he ducked his way out of sight into the Salt Lake City night.

 

[Lurker]

Skander...you obviously missed your calling.

In Fourth, Manu Gets Under Utah Skin


SALT LAKE CITY-- San Antonio Spurs guard Manu Ginobili is a clean-cut guy who looks like some Latin soap star. The Argentinean usually carries a friendly smile and always greets familiar faces with a warm handshake or a cool head nod. And while he has international fame and may even be the most popular Spur in San Antonio, he has never let the fame get to his head.

That being said, why does everyone outside of San Antonio hate this guy so much?

Well, it's because he comes up big in big games by scoring, making plays and primarily getting under the opposition's skin. And during San Antonio's 91-79 Game 4 victory over the host Utah Jazz on Monday night that brought them one win away from the NBA Finals, Ginobili got on his opposition's nerves again by scoring 11 of his 16 fourth-quarter points from the free throw line of all places.

"Manu was very aggressive in the fourth quarter and got himself open a couple times,'' Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "His aggressiveness always helps us at the offensive end because we didn't score much in the third quarter& We needed to score in the fourth and he helped us do that.''

Ginobili has been called everything from a flopper, an instigator and a great actor as a Spur. While his strong drives to the basket may be seen like a work of art to San Antonio fans, his foes view him as a wild man who gets too many calls from fooled referees.

During the first round of the 2005 NBA playoffs, Denver Nuggets coach George Karl called Ginobili's style "ugly" and "hard to watch" because he "throws his arms up and throws his elbows into us." Nuggets fans have been booing him ever since and started a jeering trend against Ginobili that has been followed throughout the league. And on Monday night, Jazz fans even booed him as he was just checking into the game.

Ginobili entered the fourth quarter with just 6 points before he was hammered by Utah forward-center Mehmet Okur during a drive to the basket with 9:58 remaining. Like always, Ginobili just calmly got up like he was barely hit, walked calmly to the free throw line and sank two free throws to give San Antonio a 67-64 lead. Just 39 seconds later, he nailed a 3-pointer to push the Spurs 70-66.

"I don't think I did too much to get into their skin in the first three quarters," Ginobili said.

With 3:57 remaining, Ginobili was fouled by Utah's Derek Fisher while shooting a 3-pointer. A clutch Ginobili nailed all three free throws to push the Spurs ahead 82-72 with 3:57 remaining. After making a driving lay-up with 2:36 remaining to give San Antonio a comfortable 85-73 lead, he got tangled up with Fisher while running back down the court. A frustrated Fisher got slapped with a technical foul and disgruntled Utah coach Jerry Sloan was sent to the lockeroom moments later after getting his second technical.

When asked about the technicals, Sloan said: ''I don't want to talk about those because all that does is get me trouble.''

When pressed for an answer, Sloan said: ''I said I wouldn't about it, all right. Thank you. Thank you.''

In other words, Ginobili struck again and has many more haters now in Utah.

"I don't know why [Fisher] got upset," Ginobili innocently said. "I can't recall doing anything for that to happen. But you know, if that helps the team win and get a couple of easy free throws, I'm ready to do it."

Opposing players, coaches and fans can hate on Ginobili all they want. But as the rappers would say, they need to, "Stop hatin,' '' since deep down they wish they had someone on their team doing the same thing.

-- Marc J. Spears covers the NBA for The Denver Post

[Reality]

 By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
May 29, 2007[/b]

SALT LAKE CITY Throughout Monday night, Ginobili flailed his arms near the basket, tumbled to the floor and marched to the free-throw line an extraordinary 15 times. With the ball, he lowered his shoulder into Fisher, bullied him backward and drove past for a layup.

Your's was actually much better.  This Adrian guy lost all credibility when he wrote Manu "bullied him backword".  GNob was going sideways around a Duncan screen, he did not even initate contact with Fisher one iota.  Swisher did one of his ludicrous not even touched Flagrant 3 Flops all on his own, followed by his faggy looking at the ref all perplexed and Victimlike.  Go find some rec league fisher. 
At least Vlade and Manu get hit 1st before they flop.

GNobs 15 FTs that bitter whiner Wojnarowski trys to spin as extraordinary and arm flops, were in reality on some drives to the hoop resulting in good hard fouls by Boozer and Okur, but also 2 shots on techs and 3 on bozo Fishers fouling him beyond the arc.

Your article much better Skandery.

[westkoast]

All championship teams need an x-factor.  That wild card player that can do many things that could change the game.  Manu is def that player.  He could hit a big 3, make big And1, steal the ball, draw a charge by flopping, or just getting a tough rebound.   However I don't think it is strickly Manu that makes them a championship team.  I actually feel it is Parker/Manu tandem that takes them from good to great.  Parker does a lot on his own that really makes a difference.  As far as penetration goes the guy is fearless and better then just about anyone else you can name.  His passing skills and decision making is actually very consistent and gives them a lot of stability.  Not down playing Manu.  Just seems like Reality and yourself seem to ignore Tony Parker.  Other then that, I really think you write very well and you would make a good sports writer IMO.  You should really try to jump into it, how awesome of a job would that be?

I would also like to welcome Stevie Javie and the rest of the crew last night to our message board.  They've seen our posts and did a much better job of keeping the flopping to a minimum towards the second half of the game.  I was very happy to see them not let Manu take the charge towards the end of the game because it was an obvious flop.

[rickortreat]

Gee, I didn't think flopping was supposed to be part of the game.  Just another sneaky dirty Spur getting the job done.

Do I blame Manu for flopping?  WHY?  He keeps getting rewarded for it.  See, it takes judgement and understanding to be a ref, to know player's tendencies and realize that just because someone falls doesn't mean there was actually contact.

Now, If I was the ref, and I saw a player attempting to fool me into giving him a free-throw, I'd give him a technical for his deception.  But as long as the NBA hires dopes who can get fooled like that, the fans get to see the NBA being made a fool of by a player.

This has been going on for years.  If you're a Spurs fan, you love this to death, and think it's a riot and a half.  I know, because 30 or so years ago, Billy Cunningham was being defended closely by John Havlicek,  so he spun to get him off, and Havlicek seemingly followed him around like they were dancing.  As it turned out, when John tried to hand-check Billy, Billy held John's hand on him when he made his move!

This is part of the game, and the Spurs are masters at it. Who draws more fouls than TD?  Who annoys opposing players more than Bowen, if not his team-mate Ginobli.  And who is more than prepared to deliver a hard foul at at unnecessary time than Robert Horry?  Not only are the Spurs a good basketball team, they're good at working the rules to their advantage.  Even when one of them gets a technical, he manages to get two of the other teams players suspended! 

A very tough playoff matchup for any team, the Spurs look to be headed to the finals with last night's win.  And in truth, the Jazz didn't deserve to win anyway.  They did nothing to put the Spurs away, and didn't respond when the Spurs made a few buckets. 

These Conference finals have turned out to be a disappointment.  Looks to be a rematch between the Spurs and the Pistons. 

[westkoast]

Rick the following players draw more fouls then Duncan...

1     Wade    MIA    202
2     Curry    NYK    202
3     Stoudemire    PHO    194
4     Arenas    WAS    187
5     Howard    ORL    181
6     Duncan    SAS    179
7     James    CLE    178
8     Bryant    LAL    169
9     Iguodala    PHI    154
10     Bosh    TOR    153
11     Randolph    POR    150
12     Maggette    LAC    145
13     Carter    NJN    141
14     Nowitzki    DAL    140
15     Brand    LAC    136
16     Martin    SAC    127
17     O'Neal    IND    126
18     Garnett    MIN    121
19     Boozer    UTA    119
20     Wallace    CHA    116

[Lurker]

Which Manu flop?

The one where Fisher ran his body into himn on the 3 pointer?

Maybe on Fisher's second technical when he slapped Manu across the head?

The only one that was close to a "flop" was the first tech on Fisher...and after Derek pulled a Varejao trying to get a call he was fuming.  THAT was a great veteran move by Ginobili to run past Fisher and exagerrate the shoulder bump.   

Funny thing is both Williams & Boozer commented after the game that they stopped driving and settled for jumpshots in the 4th quarter.  Entering that final period the Jazz had more FT attempts than the Spurs.  Spurs turned up the intesity and Jazz wilted.  No one really comments on how the Spurs finally took Williams out of the game in the 4th by doubling him.  He ended up shooting 1-5 and scored 3 points in the 4th. 

[rickortreat]

Rick the following players draw more fouls then Duncan...

1     Wade    MIA    202
2     Curry    NYK    202
3     Stoudemire    PHO    194
4     Arenas    WAS    187
5     Howard    ORL    181
6     Duncan    SAS    179
7     James    CLE    178
8     Bryant    LAL    169
9     Iguodala    PHI    154
10     Bosh    TOR    153
11     Randolph    POR    150
12     Maggette    LAC    145
13     Carter    NJN    141
14     Nowitzki    DAL    140
15     Brand    LAC    136
16     Martin    SAC    127
17     O'Neal    IND    126
18     Garnett    MIN    121
19     Boozer    UTA    119
20     Wallace    CHA    116

How is Iverson not on that list? 


Those stats are bogus.  Here are the ones from the NBA.com site:

1    
Kobe Bryant , LAL
   77    31.6    8.7    10.0    667    768    .868
2    
Gilbert Arenas , WAS
   74    28.4    8.2    9.7    606    718    .844
3    
LeBron James , CLE
   78    27.3    6.3    9.0    489    701    .698
4    
Dwight Howard , ORL
   82    17.6    4.8    8.1    390    666    .586
5    
Eddy Curry , NYK
   81    19.5    5.0    8.1    405    659    .615
6    
Corey Maggette , LAC
   75    16.9    6.9    8.4    519    633    .820
7    
Allen Iverson , DEN-PHI
   65    26.3    7.5    9.4    485    610    .795
8    
Chris Bosh , TOR
   69    22.6    6.7    8.6    463    590    .785
9    
Amare Stoudemire , PHX
   82    20.4    5.6    7.1    457    585    .781
10    
Vince Carter , NJN
   82    25.2    5.6    7.0    462    576    .802

[westkoast]

Which Manu flop?

The one where Fisher ran his body into himn on the 3 pointer?

Maybe on Fisher's second technical when he slapped Manu across the head?

The only one that was close to a "flop" was the first tech on Fisher...and after Derek pulled a Varejao trying to get a call he was fuming.  THAT was a great veteran move by Ginobili to run past Fisher and exagerrate the shoulder bump.   

Funny thing is both Williams & Boozer commented after the game that they stopped driving and settled for jumpshots in the 4th quarter.  Entering that final period the Jazz had more FT attempts than the Spurs.  Spurs turned up the intesity and Jazz wilted.  No one really comments on how the Spurs finally took Williams out of the game in the 4th by doubling him.  He ended up shooting 1-5 and scored 3 points in the 4th. 

I'll have to go back to the TiVO to see the exact time on the clock but someone was driving into the paint and he clearly flopped with a no call by the refs.  I thought the decision to not blow the whistle was spot on as it was pretty clear that Manu did a heck of an acting job.  The effects of the Shiner Bock are still clouding my head lol

Deron I think ran out of gas honestly.  He was not feeling well the night before and at the begging of the game looked to be hurting bad on the sideline.  His cross over was fierce last night almost like a JV version of Tim Hardaway's cross over in his prime.  Really if he continued to kill the Spurs off the dribble the end of the game would have been more of a nail biter to the end.  They did however, like you said, do a much better job of making that adjustment on where they wanted to try to pick him up at.

I didn't see the actual slap as I had walked away from the TV but I saw that they booted him.  Plus they made comments about him losing his poise.  Did he slap him because he was flopping?  How ironic      What's next?  Do you think Vlade will challenge them to a UFC style fight?  Half flopping half hitting each other?

How is Iverson not on that list? 

Not quite sure but it is from 82games.com so I trust the numbers..

[Lurker]

I'll have to go back to the TiVO to see the exact time on the clock but someone was driving into the paint and he clearly flopped with a no call by the refs.  I thought the decision to not blow the whistle was spot on as it was pretty clear that Manu did a heck of an acting job.  The effects of the Shiner Bock are still clouding my head lol

I think that was at the end of the 3rd...when Boozer blocked Duncan and scored "running through Manu's flop".

Deron I think ran out of gas honestly.  He was not feeling well the night before and at the begging of the game looked to be hurting bad on the sideline.  His cross over was fierce last night almost like a JV version of Tim Hardaway's cross over in his prime.  Really if he continued to kill the Spurs off the dribble the end of the game would have been more of a nail biter to the end.  They did however, like you said, do a much better job of making that adjustment on where they wanted to try to pick him up at.

I agree that his illness didn't help matters.  But the Spurs started trapping him more earlier in the possession and forced the ball out of his hands.  Then AK threw away 2-3 passes and others settled for jumpers.

I didn't see the actual slap as I had walked away from the TV but I saw that they booted him.  Plus they made comments about him losing his poise.  Did he slap him because he was flopping?  How ironic      What's next?  Do you think Vlade will challenge them to a UFC style fight?  Half flopping half hitting each other?

It wasn't as much of a slap as a swing at his head while "attempting" to block the shot and then standing over him.  After Fisher didn't get the flop call on Manu's drive around the screen he was fuming.  And then he got the first tech (I thought that was overboard by the refs...but who knows what had been said and if there were any warnings) and that seemed to just push him over the top. 

BTW a little tidbit: 2 of the refs (Javie & Derosa) were part of the crew for the Suns/Spurs game 4.  Maybe they were a little more cognizant of keeping things under control this time around.

[westkoast]

And just for the 'Reality told ya so comment' not really...while he was correct he was going to contribute there was nothing that happened the entire year up until this series that made him 'Super' or deserving of the hype we heard from him even before this last season.

However my opinion on his has changed he is not longer "Flabs Obencho", he is a solid hard hustling role player who pulls his weight.  He still is not super and still just a Kurt Rambis type player.  He works hard and plays hard which is all you can ask for.  So Reality did not quite tell us so as what he promised everyone was Wilt Chamberlain with "beautiful locks of gold"

[Reality]

Another angle of another Manu flop.