Bynum full time

[Lurker]

No the huge, humongous, GINORMOUS sample size of 1 game wasn't your imagination. 

Have you, by any chance, seen the Spurs other 15 games.

Of course not...that is how he KNOWS that Manu is not performing this year.

[Randy]

No the huge, humongous, GINORMOUS sample size of 1 game wasn't your imagination. 

Have you, by any chance, seen the Spurs other 15 games.

Of course not...that is how he KNOWS that Manu is not performing this year.

Well, if you can't get the stats to agree with you -- just keep making broad presuppositions, huh?  Manu is shooting 41% from the field -- 35% from the arch.

As for watching all the other 15 games -- I haven't, have you?  But the games that I HAVE watched -- Fabs get the majority of his points from put-backs and wide open looks under the basket -- because the opponents focus so much on TD.  Care to disagree?  Assuming you've watched the other 15 games, Skander!   

[Skandery]

Care to disagree?

I DO care!!

Fabs gets about half his points (57%) from put-backs including (but not exclusively) an assortment of missed field goals from Tim Duncan on the LOW BLOCK and wide open looks under the basket mostly after dribble penetration from Tony Parker or when his defender leaves him to double Tim Duncan on the LOW BLOCK.

He gets the other half of his points (43%) from the perimeter mostly on pick-and-rolls and pick-and-pops with either Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili.

Now I personally have only seen parts of two different San Antonio Spurs games and formed my ideas.  The people at 82games.com, however, have seen all 15 games and have done a statistical analysis of Fabricio Oberto's production which you can see here:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS10A.HTM

...and it seems the statistics bear my insight out a lot more than they bear this:

Randy -- But the games that I HAVE watched -- Fabs get the majority of his points from put-backs and wide open looks under the basket

 

[Randy]

Care to disagree?

I DO care!!

Fabs gets about half his points (57%) from put-backs including (but not exclusively) an assortment of missed field goals from Tim Duncan on the LOW BLOCK and wide open looks under the basket mostly after dribble penetration from Tony Parker or when his defender leaves him to double Tim Duncan on the LOW BLOCK.

He gets the other half of his points (43%) from the perimeter mostly on pick-and-rolls and pick-and-pops with either Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili.

Now I personally have only seen parts of two different San Antonio Spurs games and formed my ideas.  The people at 82games.com, however, have seen all 15 games and have done a statistical analysis of Fabricio Oberto's production which you can see here:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS10A.HTM

...and it seems the statistics bear my insight out a lot more than they bear this:

Randy -- But the games that I HAVE watched -- Fabs get the majority of his points from put-backs and wide open looks under the basket

So where does TD get most of his points?  Who scores more under the basket?  TD or Fabs?

www.82games.com/0607/06SAS12A

[Lurker]

But you are missing a key point Randy.  How does Fabs manage to get open under the basket so much when Rasho, Nazr and Elson are not able to do it?  Maybe...just maybe...Fabs has some decent basketball smarts and knows how to move without the ball.

TD scores more under the basket than Fabs.  The percentage of inside shots for Fabs is higher because he doesn't take many shots to start with.  Also his role in the offense is to set picks and rebound.  Looking at just inside shot % without doing further analysis is like going to a Laker game just to see Phil...

[Skandery]

So where does TD get most of his points?

I'm glad you asked...TD doesn't get most of his points anywhere.  He gets about half of his points inside (48%) and gets about half of his points on the perimeter (52%)

Who scores more under the basket?  TD or Fabs?

Fabs attempts 57% of his shots under the basket, TD attempts 48% of his shots under the basket.  So Fabs attempts a larger percentage of his shots under the basket.

Does this mean Fabs scores more under the basket than TD -- NO!

Does this mean that Fabs inside game takes precedence over TD's inside game in the Spurs gameplan -- NO!  

[WayOutWest]

Does this mean that Fabs inside game takes precedence over TD's inside game in the Spurs gameplan -- NO!  

Yes it does, TD will be moving out to the perimeter, I beleive 18 ft was the optimum distance.  TD will be the T-Mac of PF's.

[Randy]

So where does TD get most of his points?

I'm glad you asked...TD doesn't get most of his points anywhere.  He gets about half of his points inside (48%) and gets about half of his points on the perimeter (52%)

Who scores more under the basket?  TD or Fabs?

Fabs attempts 57% of his shots under the basket, TD attempts 48% of his shots under the basket.  So Fabs attempts a larger percentage of his shots under the basket.

Does this mean Fabs scores more under the basket than TD -- NO!

Does this mean that Fabs inside game takes precedence over TD's inside game in the Spurs gameplan -- NO!  

Okay, let's go back to a basic math course -- isn't 52% more than 48%?  So when he shoots 52% from the field isn't that actually more than he is in the post?

Tim Duncan plays in the low post

So if he plays in the low post -- how is he scoring 48% from outside the low post?  That's what is confusing -- perhaps you can explain it to me!

Does this mean that Fabs inside game takes precedence over TD's inside game in the Spurs gameplan -- NO!   

Who said that?  I said that TD's game at 18' opens up the floor to him.  It's obvious that he doesn't shoot outside from the 18' but I think that the 18' opens up his post game a great deal more than just putting him in the blocks every time down the floor.  And if he WERE in the blocks all the time, then he would score more than 48% there, wouldn't he? 

[Lurker]

Randy...so many misunderstandings on your part.

The stat that you have currently fell in love with tells the percentage of SHOTS TAKEN from those spots.  It doesn't address effeciency from those spots.  It doesn't address the offensive style.  And like any other stat...Kobe averages 3.5 turnovers...it doesn't mean much as a stand alone measurement.

Where you fail to grasp the entire discussion is that you have to take into account ALL of the stats, team style, other players on the court, primary vs role player, etc.  You want to focus on one stat...Kobe averages 3.5 turnovers...and judge a player or teamn based on that one specific stat.

BTW did I mention Kobe has disappeared this year...he is averaging 3.5 turnovers.

[Randy]

Where you fail to grasp the entire discussion is that you have to take into account ALL of the stats, team style, other players on the court, primary vs role player, etc.  You want to focus on one stat...Kobe averages 3.5 turnovers...and judge a player or teamn based on that one specific stat.

Now would this thread gone 5 pages if I had done that!  Nope! 

[Skandery]

Were you using my weakness to point out the insane and mock the plain silly for mere page count?

I feel so cheap....so used...    

[Reality]

Randy...so many misunderstandings on your part.

The stat that you have currently fell in love with tells the percentage of SHOTS TAKEN from those spots.  It doesn't address effeciency from those spots.  It doesn't address the offensive style.  And like any other stat...Kobe averages 3.5 turnovers...it doesn't mean much as a stand alone measurement.

Where you fail to grasp the entire discussion is that you have to take into account ALL of the stats, team style, other players on the court, primary vs role player, etc.  You want to focus on one stat...Kobe averages 3.5 turnovers...and judge a player or teamn based on that one specific stat.

BTW did I mention Kobe has disappeared this year...he is averaging 3.5 turnovers.

[Randy]

Skander,

Just want to make sure I get this right, Kobe's fg% is higher when he is under the basket -- shouldn't the Lakers begin to play him there all the time?

[WayOutWest]

Skander,

Just want to make sure I get this right, Kobe's fg% is higher when he is under the basket -- shouldn't the Lakers begin to play him there all the time?

I think you're finally getting it, Skander's unusual methods of teaching have finally gotten through to you.  Playing Kobe under the basket makes as much sense as putting Duncan 18 feet from the basket.  Kobe's post game is decent but not his strength...cough...TD...cough..