Nice win for the Sixers

[rickortreat]

It took overtime against a tired team, but the Sixers were able to eek out a win against the Spurs.

Igoudala was a huge factor, starting out with 9 early points to keep the Sixers in it, and a put back at the end to force overtime.  Iverson had 42 pts. and Dalembert had 5 blocks to go with 8 boards.  Webber had 21 pts. and 6 boards. Can someone explain why Webber isn't an All-Star this year?

I can't get too excited, as the Sixers don't seem to get any momentum out of wins. I do think it's an indication that they are capable of playing well enough on some nights to contend with anybody, but they're just as likely to embarass themselves with poor play the next game.  

[guest-koast]

Why isn't Chris Webber an all-star this year?

Because the following Forwards are playing better than he is...

Jermaine O Neal
Ben Wallace
Sheed Wallace
Chris Bosh

[rickortreat]

Neither of the Wallace's are having a better year.  Compare their stats, and you'll see Webbers are clearly superior.

The only difference is that Detroit has the best record in the league and the Sixers are a game under .500.

It's B.S. at it's finest.   :bs:  

[Derek Bodner]

Neither of the Wallace's are having a better year

Hah.  

You put sheed or big ben on the 76ers in place of Webber and we have 5-7 more wins, easily.

Webber's a 42% pf that's playing no defense and almost as many turnovers as assists..  That doesn't deserver to be an all-star.

[guest-koast]

Neither of the Wallace's are having a better year.  Compare their stats, and you'll see Webbers are clearly superior.

The only difference is that Detroit has the best record in the league and the Sixers are a game under .500.

It's B.S. at it's finest.   :bs:

Uhh Rick, how are they not having a better year?  Their team doesn't even have double digits in the loss column.  If you don't think that Sheed and Ben are having better years I do not know what to say.  Obviously their stats are going to be down when the entire team is getting it done.

Their defense alone makes them better players than Webber right now.

[rickortreat]

Ok Dabods, let's compare the numbers shall we?

               Webber R. Wallace  B. Wallace

Points       19.7     15.4           7.7

Rebounds  9.9       6.6            12.2

Assists      3.2       2.5            2.1


Chris is turning over the ball 2.4 times a game.  Not great, but better than Paul Pierce, LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Al Harrington, Tim Duncam and Dwight Howard.  

Chris Bosh is giving it up 2.2 times a game himself.

The ball goes through Webber's hands more, and he is known as more of a passer.  His assists would be higher if his teamates would make the shots.

I'd agree that either of the Wallace's are better defenders than Webber, but I'm not sure that would translate into more wins.  In Rasheed's case that's 3.3 rebounds and 3.7 points.  In Ben's case we'd need 12 more points and 2.3 less boards to break even.  


 

[Derek Bodner]

Ok Dabods, let's compare the numbers shall we?

Bah.  I hate numbers.  I prefer to discuss effect on the game.

But, if we must divulge into numbers.
http://www.phillyarena.net/files/webber-wallace.htm

[rickortreat]

Obviously their stats are going to be down when the entire team is getting it done.

Why is that obvious or even logical?  The Pistons are a deeper team and there are players like McDyess on the bench to back them up.  But if they could put up better numbers they'd stay in the game longer than they do, and the reserves would sit longer.  The minutes the players play are comparable.  Webber produces more in the same amount of time.  It's as simple as that.

The best players tend to put up the best stats, night in and night out.  Webbers stats are better.

Dabods numbers are fascinating, the team does better without Webber in the game!?  That really is hard to believe.  His turnovers don't explain this at all.  Are Shavlik Randolph and Michael Bradley better players!?

How's this for an expanation:  Webber goes out with the first team and both the Sixers and their opponents second strings go in.  The opposing team's seconds do worse against our second stringers than our first team does agaisnt their firsts.  

[Laker Fan]

Back away from the crack pipe Rick, Webber having a better year than either Wallace, by the numbers no less, I agree 1,000% with Derrick, you put either Wallace on the Sixers inplace of Webber, and I'd say you're 8-10 wins better, it's called impact, Webber has none, Allstars do.

[Derek Bodner]

How's this for an expanation: Webber goes out with the first team and both the Sixers and their opponents second strings go in. The opposing team's seconds do worse against our second stringers than our first team does agaisnt their firsts.

You can't be serious.  Our bench blows.

Here's the deal, and the definition of impact.  When Webber goes out of the game, we don't implode.  In fact, our output is at worst comparable.  When either of the 2 wallaces do (despite having better backups), the Pistons do implode.

If it was just our bench doing better than the other teams bench, wouldn't it stand to reason that our other starters have comparable #'s?

Iguodala:
On court, +2.7
Off court, -10.8
Net: +13.4

eFG% allowed:
On court: 48.7%
off court: 51.8%
Net: -3.2%

AI:
On court: +1.1
Off court: -6.8
Net: +7.9

Webber is 4th on our team among starters (behind Iguodala, Iverson and Dalembert, in order).

What's your explanation than that?

The whole 2nd string theory is a crock, no 2nd units play together, at most there are 1-2 bench players on the court at the same time.

[guest-koast]

Obviously their stats are going to be down when the entire team is getting it done.

Why is that obvious or even logical?  The Pistons are a deeper team and there are players like McDyess on the bench to back them up.  But if they could put up better numbers they'd stay in the game longer than they do, and the reserves would sit longer.  The minutes the players play are comparable.  Webber produces more in the same amount of time.  It's as simple as that.

The best players tend to put up the best stats, night in and night out.  Webbers stats are better.

Dabods numbers are fascinating, the team does better without Webber in the game!?  That really is hard to believe.  His turnovers don't explain this at all.  Are Shavlik Randolph and Michael Bradley better players!?

How's this for an expanation:  Webber goes out with the first team and both the Sixers and their opponents second strings go in.  The opposing team's seconds do worse against our second stringers than our first team does agaisnt their firsts.

Rick, the reason its obvious that their numbers are down because the team is stacked is because unlike Webber and AI, those two guys do not need to carry most of the load.  That should be obvious considering the output of the 5 starters for the Pistons.    They have a balanced team that all pull equal amounts of weight for the squad.  Right now Webber and AI are the two guys pulling the most weight on the team with the next guy coming up in a distant 3rd production wise.

Webber's defense is so weak that its not fair to include him in as an all-star.  Also if your team has 2 allstars shouldn't they be winning more games?  All the other squads that have more than one all-star making the trip this weekend have pretty good records (Miami, Detroit).  I could make a better case for Odom based on the fact he gets close to triple doubles every other week than you could for Chris Webber.  We all know Odom does not deserve to go....

[Skandery]

You can't be serious. Our bench blows.

Wow, Derek, I thought you liked Kyle Korver.   B)

Do you understand that demotion, 'cause I'm still lost.  

[Derek Bodner]

Wow, Derek, I thought you liked Kyle Korver

I do.  I still count him among our starting 5

Do you understand that demotion, 'cause I'm still lost.

Not at all.  Now Kevin Ollie's starting.

At least Korver hustles defensively.  He can't defend, but his shooting opens up our offense.