Did Shaq suck this year??

[rickortreat]

I think Shaq can play and be effective in this league as long as he wants.  How old was Wilt when he left?  Shaq has as much of a physical edge over his competitors as Wilt did in his day.  How old was Kareem when he left?  It's true that players reach their peak arond 27-29, but Centers last a lot longer, because even on old slow 7 footer is still 7 feet tall, and knows how to play.

IMO, the Lakers screwed up big time by hitching up with Kobe instead.  Maybe they wouldn't be contenting for a title, but they would have made the playoffs.

I'm not sure if he's still a 29/13 player on a night in, night out basis, but then again I'm not so sure it's in his or the Heats best interests for him to do that.  I'd rather keep his minutes down, but have him play at a high level when he is in the game.  This will give the rest of the Heat players a chance to develop without becoming over-reliant on the big guy.  Wade developed this year because Shaq wasn't putting up 29/13.

The only time you want him all out is in the playoffs.  I didn't see the last game of the Heat Pistons series, so I can't tell how strong Shaq was in that game, but I can see that they didn't pass him the ball at the end, which is about the most egregious coaching error I could imagine!

[Skandery]

LA fans want rings. Thats the kind of fickle fans we have out here. Its all or nothing. Now Shaq with no outside player as good as Wade or Kobe is going to have a hell of a time. Take it from a Laker fan who watched him in LA when he was the only guy. When Shaq has been most successfull its with a talented outside player who can pitch in, make just a tiny bit of space for him so not everyone is hanging around him, and can break down the defense.

Shaq turned the likes of Dennis Scott, Anthony Bowie, and Donald Royal into playoff performers.  I think he would have made due with Chucky Atkins and Kareem Rush as outside shooting options.  Let alone the type of shooting guard (maybe Tracy McGrady) L.A. could have swung in either a sign-n-trade for Kobe (ala Joe's theory) or simply the free agent pool.  Think you might entice a Michael Redd or a Ray Allen to come to L.A., play with Shaq and win a championship, hmmm?

I also don't believe I'm being biased, this may be hard to believe but I've *NOT* been a fan of Shaq for most of his career.  I cheered when Hakeem beat him like a red-headed stepchild.  And I was a huge fan of Kobe for over half of his career.  That is until he decided that his own self-importance and destiny were more important than fairness, sportsmanship, and general decency.  But in answer to your question how well do I think he would have done in L.A. playing 40 minutes instead of 35.  He probably would have missed more games but his per game averages probably would have been up and his FG% most definitely would have been down.  More importantly, I think L.A. would have made the playoffs and would've have been a well-coached disciplined team with a good shot at going deep.  Remember with Shaq, Phil Jackson is coaching the Lakers.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that Shaq fades off into a mediocre center within a couple years and Kobe goes on to win some rings for your Lakers, but with one season down, one of the two of them is clearly benefitting his team more than the other.                      
 

[Reality]

Now Shaq with no outside player as good as Wade or Kobe is going to have a hell of a time. Take it from a Laker fan who watched him in LA when he was the only guy.

Shaq turned the likes of Dennis Scott, Anthony Bowie, and Donald Royal into playoff performers.  I think he would have made due with Chucky Atkins and Kareem Rush as outside shooting options.  Let alone the type of shooting guard (maybe Tracy McGrady) L.A. could have swung in either a sign-n-trade for Kobe (ala Joe's theory) or simply the free agent pool.  Think you might entice a Michael Redd or a Ray Allen to come to L.A., play with Shaq and win a championship, hmmm?

 

From 1999-2004 the hundred or so games Shaq played without all wonderful all everything   Kobe resulted in one hellish 80% win ratio for Shaq.  Thats higher then with Kobe. :rolleyes:  
Kobes is at sub 500 without Shaq.

Premptive bandwith saver..We already know:
Brakk Brakk Shaq won a title with Kobe.  Brakk brakk.

After making a run at the best record in the reg season, with injuryes to himself and Wade, Shaq comes withing 2 minutes of bringing Miami to the Finals.  May well have if he got the ball in those last 2.  He sure did suck this year.

[westkoast]

From 1999-2004 the hundred or so games Shaq played without all wonderful all everything    Kobe resulted in one hellish 80% win ratio for Shaq.  Thats higher then with Kobe. :rolleyes: 
Kobes is at sub 500 without Shaq.

Premptive bandwith saver..We already know:
Brakk Brakk Shaq won a title with Kobe.  Brakk brakk.

After making a run at the best record in the reg season, with injuryes to himself and Wade, Shaq comes withing 2 minutes of bringing Miami to the Finals.  May well have if he got the ball in those last 2.  He sure did suck this year.

How many titles did they win then?  How many times did they pass the second round then?

Shaq did not get the Miami Heat to the confrence finals.  Wade did.  Youve been watching the playoffs right?  I love how it would have beeb Shaq who got them to the finals and not Wade and Shaq got the Heat to the finals.

We all know what this thread was started over.  Quit playing dumb and acting like its if he sucked or not this year.  It was started over a debate if Shaq was better this year than the last 3 with th Lakers.

Shaq turned the likes of Dennis Scott, Anthony Bowie, and Donald Royal into playoff performers. I think he would have made due with Chucky Atkins and Kareem Rush as outside shooting options

This is irrelevant because 33 yr old Shaq and 20-something yr old Shaq are two different players.  Shaq would not have made Rush a better shooter.  He is streaky and is more of a slasher than anything.   Thats like saying because JOrdan made Luc Longley, Paxton, and Cartwright playoff performers he should have took the Wizards to the EC Finals.

More importantly, I think L.A. would have made the playoffs and would've have been a well-coached disciplined team with a good shot at going deep. Remember with Shaq, Phil Jackson is coaching the Lakers.

No again, Buss felt the triangle wasnt getting it done and wanted to not only see a more uptempo team, he wanted to bring in youth.  He said all this on television live.   The PJ decision was made by management so to say if Shaq was there PJ would have is not a cold hard fact.  The Lakers mightve made the playoffs but where would they go with Shaq, Rush, Atkins, Mihm, and then Malone/George half way thru the season?  Deep?  Doubt it but not entirely impossible.  Suns, Spurs, Seattle, Wolves, and Denver all would have the upper hand matchup wise.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that Shaq fades off into a mediocre center within a couple years and Kobe goes on to win some rings for your Lakers, but with one season down, one of the two of them is clearly benefitting his team more than the other.

Of course because this is a big mans game.  Shaq is still more effective for that reason.    However lets not run away from the fact Shaq has a bonafide all star and top player in the league with Wade.  Kobe has Odom.  Enough said.

Can someone please answer why they think Shaq disrespecting Jerry Buss had NOTHING to do with some of the decision making?  Buss has an ego of his own dont forget.  As do alot of men in this world.

[Reality]

From 1999-2004 the hundred or so games Shaq played without all wonderful all everything    Kobe resulted in one hellish 80% win ratio for Shaq.  Thats higher then with Kobe. :rolleyes: 
Kobes is at sub 500 without Shaq.

Premptive bandwith saver..We already know:
Brakk Brakk Shaq won a title with Kobe.  Brakk brakk.

After making a run at the best record in the reg season, with injuryes to himself and Wade, Shaq comes withing 2 minutes of bringing Miami to the Finals.  May well have if he got the ball in those last 2.  He sure did suck this year.

How many titles did they win then?  How many times did they pass the second round then?

Shaq did not get the Miami Heat to the confrence finals.  Wade did.  Youve been watching the playoffs right?  I love how it would have beeb Shaq who got them to the finals and not Wade and Shaq got the Heat to the finals.

We all know what this thread was started over.  Quit playing dumb and acting like its if he sucked or not this year.  It was started over a debate if Shaq was better this year than the last 3 with th Lakers.
 

Kind of like "we" all know "we" werent posting together before 2003?

I take Skandery for his word.  That his thread is entitled "Did Shaq suck this year?" is good enough for me.  That my previous thread was "Pistons 88 Heat 82", was certainly regarding game 7, also speaks for itself and does not need some twisting.   That you don't agree with intelligent ones that Shaq should have gotten the ball down the stretch, finish blaming Shaq for the loss is...whatever, certainly you are open to hold that view.  Also the monster elimination games you post from Shaq the last two years.  :rofl:

That you've changed from 2 years back to 3 years back to 4 years back is....yawn.   The others have put up some excellent stats to enlighten you that Shaq was better 3-4 years ago.  Good, I'm glad you now know.  Do tell again about those hellish games Shaq had without Kobe.

<Shaq did not get the Miami Heat to the confrence finals. Wade did.>  :rofl:  :rofl:   Fanhome here "We" come.  Wade/Shaq combined along with the rest of the Heat got them to 1st place and to 7 games vs Pistons.

< Youve been watching the playoffs right? I love how it would have beeb Shaq who got them to the finals and not Wade and Shaq got the Heat to the finals.>

Wade got them to the finals but you beeb how Shaq and Wade got them to the Finals but you beeb how Shaq got them to the finals but you....Randy should be back on soon.  I'm out.

Good thread Skandery, props zig for the stats.  Shaq indeed had a very good year.  Too bad for the late injury from  JOneal.  Would have liked to see how Pistons-Heat would have been with healthy Shaq and Wade.  We'll have to wait and see how much the injury affects 2005-2006.

On to Spurs-Pistons Game 2  :cheers:

[westkoast]

From 1999-2004 the hundred or so games Shaq played without all wonderful all everything    Kobe resulted in one hellish 80% win ratio for Shaq.  Thats higher then with Kobe. :rolleyes: 
Kobes is at sub 500 without Shaq.

Premptive bandwith saver..We already know:
Brakk Brakk Shaq won a title with Kobe.  Brakk brakk.

After making a run at the best record in the reg season, with injuryes to himself and Wade, Shaq comes withing 2 minutes of bringing Miami to the Finals.  May well have if he got the ball in those last 2.  He sure did suck this year.

How many titles did they win then?  How many times did they pass the second round then?

Shaq did not get the Miami Heat to the confrence finals.  Wade did.  Youve been watching the playoffs right?  I love how it would have beeb Shaq who got them to the finals and not Wade and Shaq got the Heat to the finals.

We all know what this thread was started over.  Quit playing dumb and acting like its if he sucked or not this year.  It was started over a debate if Shaq was better this year than the last 3 with th Lakers.
 

Kind of like "we" all know "we" werent posting together before 2003?

I take Skandery for his word.  That his thread is entitled "Did Shaq suck this year?" is good enough for me.  That my previous thread was "Pistons 88 Heat 82", was certainly regarding game 7, also speaks for itself and does not need some twisting.   That you don't agree with intelligent ones that Shaq should have gotten the ball down the stretch, finish blaming Shaq for the loss is...whatever, certainly you are open to hold that view.  Also the monster elimination games you post from Shaq the last two years.  :rofl:

That you've changed from 2 years back to 3 years back to 4 years back is....yawn.   The others have put up some excellent stats to enlighten you that Shaq was better 3-4 years ago.  Good, I'm glad you now know.  Do tell again about those hellish games Shaq had without Kobe.

<Shaq did not get the Miami Heat to the confrence finals. Wade did.>  :rofl:  :rofl:   Fanhome here "We" come.  Wade/Shaq combined along with the rest of the Heat got them to 1st place and to 7 games vs Pistons.

< Youve been watching the playoffs right? I love how it would have beeb Shaq who got them to the finals and not Wade and Shaq got the Heat to the finals.>

Wade got them to the finals but you beeb how Shaq and Wade got them to the Finals but you beeb how Shaq got them to the finals but you....Randy should be back on soon.  I'm out.

Good thread Skandery, props zig for the stats.  Shaq indeed had a very good year.  Too bad for the late injury from  JOneal.  Would have liked to see how Pistons-Heat would have been with healthy Shaq and Wade.  We'll have to wait and see how much the injury affects 2005-2006.

On to Spurs-Pistons Game 2  :cheers:

So sad you have to resort to the typo exit plan.  Yet another episode of 'As the Reality dances'  Please dont refer to yourself as an intelligent one around here.  I said Shaq didnt have a monster game and as the star player who has been in this situation before he is going to shoulder the blame.  Much like he always does and always has.

Try typing with one hand cuz the other is broken and tell me how well you do lol