Author Topic: Stocks trading sideways  (Read 2745 times)

Offline Reality

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Stocks trading sideways
« on: January 11, 2005, 02:05:50 PM »
In todays pre programmable INET trading, have any of you found a stock thats going sideways, but nonetheless consistently hopping, and thus simply pre programmed over the INET to buy and sell.  

Example is EMRG.  rt if you're out there check it out.  Granted three months ago was the Bomb time to get in.  However, since about two months ago look at how
consistently it hops.  Granted its *only* bopping from 1.50-1.75 a share, but look at how often its hopping like this.  I've simply been putting in buy 1.55 sell at 1.70 and once, twice, sometimes three times a week I'm grabbing the 7-10% a day.  Plus i dont have to hover over it, just pre program and kick back.

rickortreat

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Stocks trading sideways
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2005, 04:12:05 PM »
That's a nice trade, but you can't count on things like that continuing forever.  This stock has a history of consolidating downwards, so the next time you buy it might not go to $1.70.  As long as $1.40 holds, you should be fine.  

Offline Reality

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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2005, 04:53:02 PM »
Its also got a history of coming back up.  Ie last 52 weeks high of $4.72.

I hopped twice today!  :D  155-170 and 162-170

Offline Reality

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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 07:01:58 PM »
options starting Tues.
Google and CME.

Reaction?

Offline Reality

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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2005, 01:23:17 PM »
well i did not get into google at 200.  good thing.  Still it might be a good option buy now at 185.  I'd place it at least 3-4 months out tho.

EMRG wow!  I bailed at 1.70 :D
rt where do you see it bottoming?  Would now be a superb time to get in or is it gonna do another sub 1.00 drop?  I still say it looks good long term.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2005, 01:23:50 PM by Reality »

Offline ziggy

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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2005, 01:28:21 PM »
Prophets Of Doom
Doom For The Dollar--And Everything Else
Dan Ackman, 01.10.05, 6:00 AM ET

 
 
Trading Troubles  
 
The Coming Oil Crisis  
 
Doom For The Dollar--And Everything Else  
 
 
NEW YORK - The stock market is up and economic growth has been steady, if unspectacular. But, an increasing number of economists are seeing serious storms build on the horizon. They point to ever-growing federal budget deficits, a record current-account deficit, increased consumer debt, a real estate market that looks like a bubble ready to burst, a surge in personal bankruptcies and the prospect of inflation.

Meanwhile, interest rates are on the rise, and if they increase much more, many of these problems could get dramatically worse.

Doomsayers tend to be ignored--until it's too late. This week, we give voice to five prophets of doom, starting with Peter Schiff, CEO and chief global strategist of Euro Pacific Capital.

Could the falling dollar mean we're in for a major financial disaster? He thinks so.

He has been warning about the currency's fall for a while now. Even though it lost a third of its value in the last two years against the euro, he believes it will decline even further. But, the dollar's fall is more a symptom than a cause. The real problem is that the U.S. is producing too little--and spending too much--and the result is likely to be far worse than the happy-talkers on Wall Street will ever let on.

"We are going to go through one of the most trying financial times in U.S. history, including the Great Depression," Schiff says.

Why Should We Care About The Falling Dollar?

"The basic problem," Schiff states, "is that Americans don't produce enough, and don't save enough." Indeed, over the past 15 years, the savings rate has fallen from over 6% to less than 1% in recent quarters. As a result, the goods that we are consuming are being supplied to us by foreigners. Not only are they producing the goods, but they are lending us the money to buy them, and, in doing so, are driving the U.S. deeper and deeper into debt to the rest of the world, Schiff says.

As American industry has lost productive capacity, it has become increasingly difficult for the U.S. to produce enough--and sell enough--to reduce that debt. The massive U.S. trade and current-account deficits, now at around 6% of the gross domestic product, mean that non-Americans are exchanging consumer goods today for consumer goods they will obtain in the future.

The U.S. doesn't have the ability to supply those goods, Schiff says. "We are using dollars that we print to exchange for goods that we don't produce. We have to borrow from abroad as there are no domestic sources of savings, so the value of those dollars will continue to fall."

How Bad Will It Get?

   
Peter Schiff, chief executive of Euro Pacific Capital
 
"Very bad," Schiff says. The dollar will fall a lot lower than it already has--dropping by perhaps 50% against the Japanese and Chinese currencies. How will the government respond? Could efforts to forestall the currency decline have a perverse--and ultimately negative--effect? No matter what the outcome, Americans will have to consume a lot less and save a lot more. Spending on cars, clothing and electronics will all drop dramatically--perhaps right out of the economy.

What Caused It?

"We are a society that has lived beyond its means for a long time," Schiff says, adding that while the trend has been evident for two or three decades, "in the last five years, it has gone off the deep end." Americans are relying on foreigners more and more to produce goods, rather than producing them themselves.

What Will The Results Be?

Americans will have to restrict future consumption or default on debt, whether directly or indirectly.

"I think something in the near future--maybe early this year--will make us realize the error of our ways," Schiff says. "Our creditors are going to stop. They are going to bite the bullet," which means realizing we can't repay them in the way they want and expect.

They will take a huge loss, but it will be necessary to check an unsustainable process. At that point, the people of Japan and other Asian nations will be able to consume a lot more, because they will send less of what they produce to the U.S.

"They will not be producing for us; they will be producing for themselves."

Meanwhile, to attract savings from abroad, the U.S will have to increase interest rates into the double digits. This will cause a serious wave of defaults in the real estate market and elsewhere.

"The further into the future this starts, the worse it will be for Americans," Schiff says.

When And Why Will It Bottom Out?

"I don't know. A lot will depend on the government," Schiff says. The debt to Japan, China and others has been building for a long time. The process will also take some time to reverse. But, the analysts on Wall Street don't want to say this.

"They pull their punches, because they don't want to be marginalized. But, the fact is we owe Japan a fortune; it's not the other way around." And that, Schiff says, means the dollar will be heading south for a while
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

rickortreat

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Stocks trading sideways
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2005, 01:38:45 PM »
I look more at the markets from a macro perspective, Reality.  Major and minor trends in the markets.

Right now the major trend is Dollar down, stocks up, Dollar up stocks down.  This tells me foreigners are buying US stocks when they're cheap and selling them when they go up on currency moves, as oppossed to the stock's merit.  This is pure speculation- too much money chasing after assets.  It's very unheathy, and I expect it to end badly.

The dollar is in real trouble, haveing recently made a ten-year low before a dead-cat bounce.  The Central Bankers are getting desparate because fundamentally the dollar is worth less and they all know it.  They're desparate becasue the world economy is dependent on selling to the US.  No other country has strong enough dometic demand to replace the US as consumers, and they're terrified of the necessary rebalancing that REALITY will demand.

The upcomming G-7 meeting will be very interesting indeed.  I know how to prevent the impending finacial collapse, but I'm not sure these bozo's are willing to do what is necessary to prevent it from happening.  

We're in this mess as a result of currency manipulation.   Eveyone else wants to pretend the US dollar is stronger than it is so they can continue to keep their people employes selling the American consumer stuff.  But our budget and trade deficit show that the US is loosing wealth and so the dollar has been going down.  So far, all the countries sellling stuff to us have kept their currencies in parity, but all this will do is force a race to devalue in order to stay competitive.

It will require sacrifice and maturity by our Asian trading partners to avert a depression simillar to the 30's.  They will have to allow the US to start growing again and allow the fundamental underpinnings of the Dollar to strengthen.  I don't see that happening and I am very concerned.  

Offline Reality

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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2005, 02:11:47 PM »
Quote
I look more at the markets from a macro perspective, Reality.  Major and minor trends in the markets.

 
so trendwise give me your take on EMRG.
It's a very interesting stock.

How much more do you think it will drop?
How long until it climbs again?
I think it will indeed climb again.  I think it will top $2.50 sometime in 2005.
How much farther will it drop and when will it jump up again is my Q.
Why don't you go 8-2 on stock picks?

rickortreat

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Stocks trading sideways
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2005, 02:40:23 PM »
Who do you think I am Swengali!?

It's easier to pick winers in sports because the variables are fewer and easilly accounted for.

Stocks do not move on fundamentals consistently.  More often than not, they move on momentum and crowd psychology, which is difficult to quantify.  In addition, many market are subject to manipulation by the big money boys, as they regularly squeeze people who are invested in the right thing, but are too impatient and easilly shaken out.

By the way, I own 4 gold stocks. 3 of them are up 26.05%, 56.07% and 68.97% respectively.  The fourth is down 51.55%.

I don't know what EMRG does, so all I can base my remarks on is the chart.  It's a cheap stock, which tells me it's highly volatile and easilly maniplatable, so I tend to stay away from it on that basis.   I warned you that it wouldn't continue to oscillate as it did, and suggested it was more likely to go down than up trend wise.

Short-term I see it heading down to close to 1.00 probably 1.03 wait until there and make sure it doesn't break that upward trendline which has acted as support for going long.  

Offline Reality

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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2005, 02:50:49 PM »
Quote
More often than not, they move on momentum and crowd psychology, which is difficult to quantify.  In addition, many market are subject to manipulation by the big money boys, as they regularly squeeze people who are invested in the right thing, but are too impatient and easilly shaken out.

 
100% its manipulated by the greedoids.
Also news driven.  Sad but true fact is when a few more dead Mad Cows turn up, EMRG will jump.  They provide testing for bad beef.  Got the Japanese contract in Dec, that was what caused the big jump.  Negotiating with the US big beefers Ie Hormel.  However the beef boys are huge on coverups.  Was it you or jn or both of you who read the Reality recommended "Fast Food Nation."  Everyone here its a must read.  Go for it.  Beef industry expose.  Grosser then you can imagine.  What they do to illegal immigrants/down and out US citizen employees is also demonic.

Props for the gold stocks.  What the heck did you get that jumped?  And the %s are from when to when?

I agree on EMRG to wait.  However, if one has the cash to endure all of 2005 I would have no problem getting back in now.  Just as it always comes down the history is it jumps up, even if that is the greedoids manipulating for short time spurts.
Pre program to sell and whalla.

Offline ziggy

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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2005, 03:03:58 PM »
Quote
I look more at the markets from a macro perspective, Reality.  Major and minor trends in the markets.

Right now the major trend is Dollar down, stocks up, Dollar up stocks down.  This tells me foreigners are buying US stocks when they're cheap and selling them when they go up on currency moves, as oppossed to the stock's merit.  This is pure speculation- too much money chasing after assets.  It's very unheathy, and I expect it to end badly.

The dollar is in real trouble, haveing recently made a ten-year low before a dead-cat bounce.  The Central Bankers are getting desparate because fundamentally the dollar is worth less and they all know it.  They're desparate becasue the world economy is dependent on selling to the US.  No other country has strong enough dometic demand to replace the US as consumers, and they're terrified of the necessary rebalancing that REALITY will demand.

The upcomming G-7 meeting will be very interesting indeed.  I know how to prevent the impending finacial collapse, but I'm not sure these bozo's are willing to do what is necessary to prevent it from happening.  

We're in this mess as a result of currency manipulation.   Eveyone else wants to pretend the US dollar is stronger than it is so they can continue to keep their people employes selling the American consumer stuff.  But our budget and trade deficit show that the US is loosing wealth and so the dollar has been going down.  So far, all the countries sellling stuff to us have kept their currencies in parity, but all this will do is force a race to devalue in order to stay competitive.

It will require sacrifice and maturity by our Asian trading partners to avert a depression simillar to the 30's.  They will have to allow the US to start growing again and allow the fundamental underpinnings of the Dollar to strengthen.  I don't see that happening and I am very concerned.
I am not necessarily supporting or agreeing with this guys opinion, but I do believe that you have to understand the views of the extreme contrarians.  Things never turn out as bad as these extreme opinions say, but they always have a point, and we can't stick our head in the sands about it.  What they say has a great deal of truth, and we better be ready to deal with it.

The world economy has been driven by US consumption for the last 20 years.  That has been good for everybody in the world.  At the same time, America has gorged on debt, (personal, corporate and government), for 25 years.  At some point we have to pay that debt.  Up to now most of the world has been convinced that they "NEED" the US economy to grow, and they have continued to buy our debt to support world economic growth, and to grow their economies.  I believe the world is finally saying enough is enough, and may be prepared to change these habits.  What they very well may discover, which will be a shock to the US economy, is that they don't need us as much as they thought they did.  The growth of China, and the other Far Eastern countries will soften the blow dramatically.  Latin America has grown significantly as well.  If they don't need us as much as we and they thought they did, then they will be much less likely to fund our huge deficits.  This will have a massive impact on our economy.

I do believe that America will be fine long term though.  China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, and various Latin American countries et al, have been taking a huge % of the so called out sourced jobs.  The difference in productivity between the US and these countries though is so great that the savings from out sourcing is not huge.  It will take a very short period of time, and the cost to produce in America will once again be competitive, because we are so much more productive than these Asian countries.  I have traveled to China and LA, and the difference in productivity is mind blowing.  In time China will become more driven by supplying it's own internal economy, and we will see a shift back to greater domestic manufacturing than we have now.

I think the steps taken over the last 20 years in this country towards rewarding long term savings has been somewhat discounted, and this is one area that I really support Bush.  The growth in IRA, 401K, and now MSA etc, will have a huge and profound impact on our economy.  Bush wants to expand the ability of everyone to build long term wealth through deferred long term saving plans, and this will do wonder for reducing our dependance on debt, and increase our savings rates. This has had a major impact on US economic growth in the last 20 to 25 years, and expanding this will have a huge positive impact on US economic growth.

The other big issue facing the world will be energy.  There are a lot of "extreme contrarians" on the energy issue, and we need to heed their call.  At the same time, I believe strongly that we will see a revolution in energy.  This alone will improve our balance of trade problem, becuase we will begin to produce more energy here, and import much less.  We have seen some huge leaps made in 20 years in energy development and generation, and this will accelerate rapidly over the next 20 to 30 years.  We will not have the cheap energy of the 80's and 90's for a while, but there will be some incredible leaps forward, and when that happens, energy prices will once again fall, and fall dramatically, which will lead to another very robust period of economic growth.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

rickortreat

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Stocks trading sideways
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2005, 03:20:51 PM »
I have held gold stocks for 2-3 years depending, and am long gold through IRA funds in USERX and UNWPX from US Global Investors, who'm I highly recommend.

I am also short the general market with Bearx, which has not worked out as well as I hoped.  I am concerned that when the Dollar up stocks down trend breaks, the market will crash.

Gold is inverse to the dollar, which is why I'm in.  I am concerned that the miners are not traking with the metal, and wish I had more caplital to buy options on futures.  As soon as Gld has options written on it, I'll have easier access, but I'll have to see how they're priced.  Since GLD is priced at about 1/10 the POG, a $10 move in Gold is only a  $1 move in GLD.   Not much of a % move on a $42 stock.

IMO, as soon as the dollar breaks down again the gold stock I have are going to rocket up, which is why I'm still in.